SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread?

[MKSheppard]

Wait. Holy shit. This is potentially disturbing news...

Were any of your troops harmed by the Binary Nerve Agents? If so, we can do financial compensation.

(LOL, that was back when SDN world was just a "rar!")

EDIT: Do I smell a "No WMD, People Died!" news article?

[Coyote]

We are just going to increase the amount of Rum we export. After all that is our main cash crop.

EDIT: Thinking of the economy is the main reason the new units will be light infantry. They do not cost as much to train and maintain.

By all means, contact the People's Republic of Canissia. We'd love to discuss rum imports in bulk, and we'll give you a break on mezcal.

We also have a high standard for airborn and light infantry forces, so if you want to do joint training maneuvers we'd love to host you. A nation like Canissia, the size of Spain, has a lot of open territory. You can even do an OPFOR "Invasion" if you like, and later we can do a Marine amphibious "invasion" for your guys to train on beach defense.

[RogueIce]

IIRC, though Tithonus made that deal with Shep for bio/chem weapons, I do believe it was only Zor who said they were used. Did anyone confirm that they were, in fact, used, before the counter-invasion of Syndromia?

Which, I'll note, Zor managed to accomplish in impressive time.

I am pleased to report that the initial hostile actions of TithonousSyndrome against the Sovereign Kingdom of Zoria have been repulsed by his Majesty's Royal Zorian Navy and Royal Zorian Air Force and are enforcing an imediate blocade alongside Fungal Axis, FYTO and LUN forces. I would like to discuss a plan for handling this agressive power with the international community.

Here he says it was repulsed. Much relief was had by all. Later, he makes the following claim:

On behalf of the fine people of the Kingdom of Zoria, i am greatful for this aid, several villiages were attacked with gas and incindiary missiles before we could respond.

Naturally, everybody is alarmed. However, everybody decides to wait until the allegations can be confirmed. Nobody, however, actually does this. And then, with no further aggression reported by Syndromia (or even claimed) and no confimation given on the use of WMDs:

I, King Zor-I of the Kingdom of Zoria have just recieved word from Legate Adria Hitachi of the First Legion of the RZMC. Her forces have sucsessfully landed on the main island of TithonousSyndrome's island chain, home to the capital city and main industrial section twenty kilometers from the outskirts of his capital and have established a beach-head with an additional ten thousand soldiers landing by the end of the day, despite gas mortar attack by a few resisting soldiers early on in the invasion. This island contians the capital and main industrial city, Should it island fall, the rest of his Island chain will succum soon after. As for his Navy, the RZAF took care of most of their fleet during their attack on the homeland.

And then, less than a day (game-time) later:

I have just received word from Legate Hitachi, her forces have managed to take the Palace of TithonousSyndrome and have forced him into diplomatic talks. The war is over!

The whole process, from when he first makes the claims of gas attack, through to his declared victory, took about a day and a half in game-time. Even allowing that we hadn't really established this firmly yet, the chain of events was alarmingly fast. And finally, as I recall, the withdrawl essentially left Syndromia in Zoria's hands, if I am not mistaken.

OOC aside, from an in-universe perspective, can you see how alarming this event would have been? Our signle joint-MESS naval exercise pales in comparison.

EDIT: Further, the reminder that Shepnukistan provided the gas in the first place is even more alarming.

EDIT2: In-universe, I'll be making a newspaper editorial concerning these events and their relation to the larger international stage. In fairness I'll probably have the timeframe expanded to about a month or so, since we hadn't established a game speed by then.

[MKSheppard]

IIRC, though Tithonus made that deal with Shep for bio/chem weapons

Mustard and Binary Agents aren't biological weapons; and are still quite legal in this universe....unless I missed something.

EDIT: Further, the reminder that Shepnukistan provided the gas in the first place is even more alarming.

Those binary nerve agents never harmed anyone! except perhaps a few flowers and chipmunks

[DarthShady]

Well, if it's any compensation, I was the first one Shady tried to kill Laughing

Then I bombed his country back to the stone age and got him to apologize. Well, that and the shitstorm he caused with Mangka will probably get him to behave.

Don't worry about me, I'll play nice. My country is still recovering from the shroom war, i think we just made it back to the modern age.

You know, i actually thought that the MESS were going to invade me after the Mangka incident.

[Shroom Man 777]

Zoria is considerably bigger than Syndromia... and the initial post by Tith stated that he was sending his dudes on a mad attack on Zoria - as in "fanatically" and "ignoring any expense human or otherwise". Presumably a lot of his military (which, under his orders, would have nothing against using gas) was lost and it made Zoria's counter attack easier. Syndromia is no Iraq.

The withdrawl essentially left Syndromia in Zoria's hands, if I am not mistaken.

Zoria and the LUN. Syndromia is still re-organizing itself and after it's fully stable, the remaining peacekeepers can disengage.

Hey, it's a relief that none of us decided to stay in Syndromia and do anything funny with it. Well, maybe Zor will do something funny - but that's his prerogative.

But yeah, Syndromia was rather rash and the game was just starting then.


[EDIT: Uhh... let's pretend Shroomania helped fix the Shadow Empire up after Shady apologized for trying to Kill Me.]

[RogueIce]

IIRC, though Tithonus made that deal with Shep for bio/chem weapons

Mustard and Binary Agents aren't biological weapons; and are still quite legal in this universe....unless I missed something.

The main point was, the use of those weapons is what gave the "justification" for the counter-invasion (before that, people seemed content to have sanctions...mostly). Since you're the one who supplied them...

Assuming, of course, any were ever used. That was never independently verified. Zor just started his invasion and everyone else jumped on the occupation bandwagon.

[Shroom Man 777]

If anyone can go there and confirm that those chemical weapons were used and that those weapons were from Shep... oooh boy. I don't think THAT is gonna be worth the trouble

[RogueIce]

You know, i actually thought that the MESS were going to invade me after the Mangka incident.

But we didn't. Syndromia, on the other hand, was taken over.

Shroom Man 777
True enough on the speed of the invasion itself. But what of the time between the allegations (never confirmed; while possible we'll never know and just have to trust Zor at this point) and the initial beachhead?

The main thrust of this is, OOC aside, in universe we're the ones being blamed for militarisation and aggression. Who's actually invaded a country on shaky justifications before? Who occupied it?

And who didn't actually invade (or even attack) the Shadow Empire, even when we had clear justification (reinforced by the Red Technocracy's weapons inspectors)?

We're the aggressive ones? I hope you can better understand our worries on this matter.

[K. A. Pital]

Sorry folks. That exercise, if anything, was in response to Shady deciding to take it upon himself to launch a covert attack on one of us.

Okay, but look, your naval exercise involved a massive Navy that could cripple half the entire world at the time, if it attacked on surpise, and that massive Navy alone is very good reason for us to use the JASDM plan; in fact, the missiles make seas safer.

Well, not for military ships, but for civilian ships and other traffic.

You took out Syndromia in what, a month? On Zor's word they used bio-weapons?

Syndromia commited agression against a nation that did not attack ANYONE. Did NOT have WMDs. No hints at anything; not even bioweapon "rumors", NOTHING.

Do you think that if a nation attacks another we should've just sitted still and not destroy it? We did behave well towards Syndromia; Gottland's rebels got bombing from Su-34s and A-10s just because we didn't want to dedicate our military to another civil war right after we dealt with Syndromia.

We are pretty peaceful. And the missile pact is only means to secure our seas from massive naval exercises. After all, you could've ventured to the Central Sea with all that super-navy stuff before; after we get the missles, you won't, you'd have to go roundabout if we object about a Naval exercise in those waters, and the Central Sea will be secure.

You'll do the naval stuff on the far side of Xian Tia.

We'll do our naval stuff off the northern coast of Shepnukistan if we need too.

chemical weapons

Irrelevant issue if he sold them or not. Syndromia attacked Zor without any reason and that's agression. Chemical weapon usage may have caused some indignation, but it doesn't matter because chems or not, Syndromia is the agressor.

And since it was declared war upon, it was kicked.

End of story. Chem weapon angle is irrelevant.

[RogueIce]

If anyone can go there and confirm that those chemical weapons were used and that those weapons were from Shep... oooh boy. I don't think THAT is gonna be worth the trouble

Sadly, given how much time has passed since then, I'm not even sure if it's really possible to confirm anything at this point.

[RogueIce]

Oh I fully agree, Stas, aggression should be punished. The invasion was repulsed, a blockade set up and sanctions imposed. It wasn't until the unconfirmed gas attack came along that Zor declared justification to invade. Shroom Man actually said we should wait and, if the allegations were true, further action should be taken.

No confirmation was given. Zor just steamrolled them.

My point isn't so much to say what went on in Syndromia was totally wrong (though questions exist), just that our naval exercise (three carriers, which Bean and Shep alone double) is peanuts in comparison. But we're the ones accused of militarism and aggression.

[General Deathdealer]

We are just going to increase the amount of Rum we export. After all that is our main cash crop.

EDIT: Thinking of the economy is the main reason the new units will be light infantry. They do not cost as much to train and maintain.

By all means, contact the People's Republic of Canissia. We'd love to discuss rum imports in bulk, and we'll give you a break on mezcal.

We also have a high standard for airborn and light infantry forces, so if you want to do joint training maneuvers we'd love to host you. A nation like Canissia, the size of Spain, has a lot of open territory. You can even do an OPFOR "Invasion" if you like, and later we can do a Marine amphibious "invasion" for your guys to train on beach defense.

We look forward to the training exercises once our forces are fully trained and equipped.

What type of rum would you like? Flavored, Spiced, or the 151 proof?

[Master_Baerne]

If Baerne agrees with this, then it's ok with me.

Baerne agrees with this. Here, have an ACV. I'll expect yearly payments of 1dollars (1/65 of you GDP, assuming it's still 6.5 billion USD), to be increased proportionate to your economy as it grows, for a total cost of 10 million USD.

The reason for this is that a new construction ship built in Russia cost 9.6 million USd, and mine is automated. You also get the newly upgraded version, for no additional cost.

Upgrades: Modular hardpoints on the main deck for an attachable tank. Think an oil tanker truck, only shipboard and larger, and a UAV with a two-person operating crew for additional resource location technology.

[K. A. Pital]

Zor just steamrolled them.

Okay, did you even see what Zor did? Yes he steamrolled Syndromia - he was attacked after all with a war declaration and had the right to do so, weapons or not.

But the fact that there were other nations there with him, helped to establish the A.P.C.S. which was, frankly, the ONLY thing that stopped Zor from annexing Syndromia into Zoria.

Did you just miss how he routinely proposed him just taking ovre all of Syndromia, and the APCS - which thankfully stated that it's goals are a new and independent Syndromia before Zor's proposals - stopped that and actually reconciled into an independent Syndromia proposal?

This was the only thing that kept Syndromia a free state; were it not for that, you'd see a Greater Zoria right now and Zor would be in his FULL right to that, see.

[Coyote]

We look forward to the training exercises once our forces are fully trained and equipped.

What type of rum would you like? Flavored, Spiced, or the 151 proof?

Excellent! Paint guns for all!

As for rum, hmm... a mixed load of 50% 151-proof, 25% spiced, and 25% flavored (various mixes, but coconut especially).

And we'll get a shipload of age/smoked mezcal loaded up as well... it's a recipe from Chiapas. Delicious.

[RogueIce]

End of story. Chem weapon angle is irrelevant.

Perhaps. Though the way it played out, Zor is the one who made them relevant.

If the intention was always to invade that would be one thing. But as I read it, that intention was never mentioned until after the chemical weapons were brought up. Which would imply to me that is where Zor derived his justification from. Especially since, by his own admission, he basically destroyed their entire military just by repulsing the invasion in the first place.

[K. A. Pital]

But as I read it, that intention was never mentioned until after the chemical weapons were brought up.

Zor had the right to take war over Syndromia; he was in a state of war with it after all.

Now, the APCS might have considered the Chems additional argument, but for what it's worth, we actually saved Syndromia - the attacker - from becomign just another part of Zoria because Tithonus' and his generals didn't measure their power correctly or just didn't care, as it seems. Zor would've crushed and occupied it without us.

It's a 7.5 million nation, and Zor could've easily pacified it alone, he's a Kingdom. End of story for Syndromia.

AND DID EVERYONE JUST FORGET COMANDANTE LONESTAR?

Lonestar said he wants nukes to "deal" with OMSK Pact, I mean W.T.F.

I could understand naval exercises but Lonestar does run a nuclear program; this is why the OMSK started running a lot fo military stuff previously not there.

So there was some posturing that led to the current Foreign Relations situation, too.

[RogueIce]

But as I read it, that intention was never mentioned until after the chemical weapons were brought up.

Zor had the right to take war over Syndromia; he was in a state of war with it after all.

Now, the APCS might have considered the Chems additional argument, but for what it's worth, we actually saved Syndromia - the attacker - from becomign just another part of Zoria because Tithonus' and his generals didn't measure their power correctly or just didn't care, as it seems.

We appreciate that. We do. But let me just try to explain this from an in universe perspective.

Zor gets attacked. He repulses said attack, effectively destroying the Syndromian military in the process and joins the international blockade. He then proposes that multinational talks begin on how best to handle this act of aggression.

This would imply a cessation of hostilities. The fighting is basically over and he's announcing he wants to enter talks on how to proceed.

The talks never happen. Instead he makes the claim of chemical weapon use and proceeds to invade. And were it not for the rest of you, we would have a Zorian annexation.

Was he in his rights? Given a declaration of war, sure. But from an outsider's perspective, he stopped to enter talks concerning the situation. Implying that the fighting was over and some kind of agreement could be reached. Then he invades and tries for a power grab, and is only stopped by the international community (for which we are greatful and take note of, rest assured).

Again, the point is less that what he did was totally wrong, though there is a certain unease and disconnect concerning the timeline of events from an outsider's view. Just that compared to what has gone before, the MESS hasn't done much. Certainly not enough to justify the rhetoric thrown our way lately, I would think. That's my main point in all of this.

[RogueIce]

AND DID EVERYONE JUST FORGET COMANDANTE LONESTAR?

Lonestar said he wants nukes to "deal" with OMSK Pact, I mean W.T.F.

I could understand naval exercises but Lonestar does run a nuclear program; this is why the OMSK started running a lot fo military stuff previously not there.

So there was some posturing that led to the current Foreign Relations situation, too.

Oh I agree. As I said we are hardly totally blameless in all of this. I think what we all need to do, at this point, is stop the rhetoric. Because accusations of militarism and aggressive policies and easily go around to just about all sides in this.

To that end I'd propose we all meet at neutrality point. We obviously have considerable misunderstandings and misperceptions to work through. Hopefully we can and this "cold war" as Shroom Man 777 so aptly termed it can be put to rest.

[Shroom Man 777]

Yeah, a lot of us have been brash and too quick to act - especially at the earlier parts where each of us just joined in.

Nonetheless, I'm gonna start talking to Coyote now so that our nations can have mutual trade and stuff and be less inclined for a world war

EDIT:

Hay, Shinra is a neighbor of Shroomania. We should start talking and diplomating and trading, mang!

[General Deathdealer]

Yeah, a lot of us have been brash and too quick to act - especially at the earlier parts where each of us just joined in.

Nonetheless, I'm gonna start talking to Coyote now so that our nations can have mutual trade and stuff and be less inclined for a world war

EDIT:

Hay, Shinra is a neighbor of Shroomania. We should start talking and diplomating and trading, mang!

Baal has no problem trading rum with any nation. The rum is good, yes?

[K. A. Pital]

To that end I'd propose we all meet at neutrality point.

Yeah.

A 2nd Grand Conference would be too much for us to handle, especially so quick after the 1st.

But we could arrange a MESS-OMSK meeting. Best of all to reserve that to non-working days like Sunday or Saturday.

EDIT: That is if the MESS can actually come as a singel entity, or at least gather enough members to be presentable. You seem a lot more rogue than we do without a central C&C organization like our OSC...

Because I can't really say it's a MESS OMSK talks if we get a mutual nonagression pact with Shinra, but Lonestar still wants to "do something" about us and doesn't even arrive to the conference

If people need more time, we could extend the conference for the next entire week, making it not a single thing but a series of bilateral talks, for all members to feel comfortable.

[Coyote]

I propose Canissia for a MESS-OMSK meeting.

Since there's a lot of Fungal/Omsk crossover, they could at least send observers, if not full delegations?

[Shroom Man 777]

Baal has no problem trading rum with any nation. The rum is good, yes?

Totally! And I'm sure fish biscuits go well with booze, so on behalf of New Gottland, we'll be shipping biscuits to you too.

Tell us how your Spartan combat suits fare and Shroomania might just buy a few

[The FUNGAL AXIS will send a delegation as well, if it's okay with you guys.]