SDN World 3 Commentary Thread II

[Thanas]

Well, behind the lines will be a bit heavy to do, seeing as the country is flooded with german and french soldiers.

That said, the speech was very Churchillian. A good read, I have to say.

(also, you have PM).

[Siege]

Have fun with the partisans, I guess .

[RogueIce]

And so the Slava defies the German orders. What happens now? *suspenseful music plays*

[Coyote]

Well done, Siege, and also, I felt, very "Churchill". In fact, the whole thing got me thinking... during WW2, the Dutch government relocated ot Canada until the war was over. Maybe this time, Brazil or Gran Colombia would be the hosts? Socialist brothers moved to help out, etc.

Take experienced Dutch troops and make a new corps of Dutch Legion in South America?

You also have a good excuse to make a philosophical split with the Soviets, and push a more international flavor to the movement. And remember, Leon Trotsky is in the Yishuv, keeping his head down (he was quietly invited to leave the USSR and not be seen for awhile); he'd be all up for the "international Socialist brotherhood" thing. He could even help set up a government in exile/international resistance thing.

There is some good plot fodder here.

[Steve]

Bah, I only took two measly ports to keep Lonestar from snatching them! I haven't touched Darwin....

Well, not yet anyway.

Besides, there you're just a bunch of damned squatters who have unlawfully seized Cascadian territory, and we are indulging in the height of patience and friendliness in offering to let you keep living there and having a government separate from our North Territory administration if Darwin will just accept re-annexation.

[Thanas]

Southwest of where Slava was becoming the focal point of impending war, an innocent-looking Colombian freighter was adrift, a German launch pulled up beside her. The Germans searched the vessel, departing Rotterdam for Port-of-Spain on Trinidad, for contraband, but found only minor consumer goods and a hold full of Dutch refugees, nothing to justify seizure. The Leutnant in charge of the search saluted respectfully to the Colombian merchant crew as his boat cast off to return to the cruiser from whence it had come.

The freighter moved on, and in the holds, Brandon Michaels breathed a sigh of relief that belied the bitterness and rage in his soul.

You guys do know that this is bloody unlikely, do you? My officers do have pictures of the guy and they would have searched the hold.

EDIT: I also have a recon zeppelin overhead, so we would know that a transfer took place.

[RogueIce]

You guys do know that this is bloody unlikely, do you? My officers do have pictures of the guy and they would have searched the hold.

We're being nice to Karmic. That's basically the whole justification for that. Do what you want with the government officials on the Slava though.

[Thanas]

Yeah, well, if somehow we can now magick guys out of their countries, then fuck it.

It belies all logic that the soviets would manage a prisoner transport out in the open seas, under the eyes of the whole german navy and that this would then get away.

I mean, really?

[Norseman]

Trust me when I say that aboard something as big as a freighter there are hundreds of places where you can hide a dozen or so people, unless of course a group of customs agents basically tears the ship apart.

[Thanas]

Trust me when I say that aboard something as big as a freighter there are hundreds of places where you can hide a dozen or so people, unless of course a group of customs agents basically tears the ship apart.

Yeah, and any german commander worth his salt (including Hipper) would have forced the ship into a german port after it saw some people exiting the slava and then gettting there.

[RogueIce]

Yeah, well, if somehow we can now magick guys out of their countries, then fuck it.

It belies all logic that the soviets would manage a prisoner transport out in the open seas, under the eyes of the whole german navy and that this would then get away.

I mean, really?

He has a disguise. The German sailor who took a look at him had an off day. He was hidden away in some smuggler's compartment thing, a cut-out wall or something. They weren't expecting it, because of the Soviet cruiser and all the action surrounding that. We can make plenty of excuses.

And this is one of those 'context is everything' kind of deals. We're cutting Karmic a break because he was sick. Someone who was around for, involved in, and still got their ass kicked in a war would not be so lucky.

EDIT: Wait, your post mentioning the Slava and people exiting her has me confused? Who's exited the Slava? This freighter is totally independent of that incident.

[Thanas]

Siege wrote that the whole government including the chariman exited the union on the slava. How the fuck did they get on a colombian freighter if the slava is already at sea and was always shadowed by a recon zeppelin?

[RogueIce]

Siege wrote that the whole government including the chariman exited the union on the slava. How the fuck did they get on a colombian freighter if the slava is already at sea and was always shadowed by a recon zeppelin?

Ah, that. OK. Basically we're saying that Brandon Michaels was not in the group who made a run to the Slava and is trying to flee aboard her. He got out an entirely different way. Quite probably fleeing even before the Army decided to launch their coup or something along those lines.

EDIT: And that might contradict Siege's intent, for which all I can say is I'm sorry. But we decided that Karmic is already losing his country, pretty much. And given that he was sick during the whole lead up and through most of the fighting, we are - just this once - going to cut his player avatar a break. As I said, if someone is around for the war and still loses, they're on their own.

[Thanas]

Well, I guess Germany will then pursue him to the end of the earth.

But him fleeing like a sniveling little coward while his countrymen die probably is enough to ruin his standing among them anyway. Didn't even get wounded.

[Siege]

Bah, I only took two measly ports to keep Lonestar from snatching them! I haven't touched Darwin....

Well, not yet anyway.

Besides, there you're just a bunch of damned squatters who have unlawfully seized Cascadian territory, and we are indulging in the height of patience and friendliness in offering to let you keep living there and having a government separate from our North Territory administration if Darwin will just accept re-annexation.

Try and make that difference clear to a fire-breathing ironmonger of a reactionary general . Historically Hendrik Seyffardt was a major asshole of a man who got himself killed by partisans for cooperating with the Nazis during WW2; here, he was basically fishing for a reason to whack the legitimate Soviet government of the Union. Of course the government then happily obliged by making a run for it, but that should roughly tell you what kind of a man he is.

Concerning the Slava and the government; I didn't use Brandon Michael because, well lets face it, that's a completely asinine and preposterous name for a Dutchman, Belgian or Luxembourger to have, so I ignored him and made up some names of my own. I kinda presumed he was aboard the Slava but if he escaped separately (maybe he was in the country somewhere when the army locked down The Hague and felt it prudent to go underground after that?) that's just dandy by me as long as I'm rid of him for the duration of the crisis .

[RogueIce]

Well, I guess Germany will then pursue him to the end of the earth.

But him fleeing like a sniveling little coward while his countrymen die probably is enough to ruin his standing among them anyway. Didn't even get wounded.

*shrug* That's a problem for the RPers. Not us.

But yeah, I'd agree. Heck Siege already had his Dutch general call him (and the rest) out on those very same grounds.

[Steve]

Michaels didn't get on the Slava, and frankly I'm not entirely convinced Karmic should've had his avatar big cheese character as a damned American. A foreign minister, sure.

But anyway, on the Slava are the main bulk of the Dutch government, Michaels had been separated and was forced to get away on his own. I figured this the best compromise between letting Karmic at least keep his character around and not imposing an unrealistic situation on you to let the Dutch officials on Slava get away as opposed to the two most likely outcomes: being shot by the Germans or being drowned if Slava is sunk completely.

[Steve]

Bah, I only took two measly ports to keep Lonestar from snatching them! I haven't touched Darwin....

Well, not yet anyway.

Besides, there you're just a bunch of damned squatters who have unlawfully seized Cascadian territory, and we are indulging in the height of patience and friendliness in offering to let you keep living there and having a government separate from our North Territory administration if Darwin will just accept re-annexation.

Try and make that difference clear to a fire-breathing ironmonger of a reactionary general . Historically Hendrik Seyffardt was a major asshole of a man who got himself killed by partisans for cooperating with the Nazis during WW2; here, he was basically fishing for a reason to whack the legitimate Soviet government of the Union. Of course the government then happily obliged by making a run for it, but that should roughly tell you what kind of a man he is.

Concerning the Slava and the government; I didn't use Brandon Michael because, well lets face it, that's a completely asinine and preposterous name for a Dutchman, Belgian or Luxembourger to have, so I ignored him and made up some names of my own. I kinda presumed he was aboard the Slava but if he escaped separately (maybe he was in the country somewhere when the army locked down The Hague and felt it prudent to go underground after that?) that's just dandy by me as long as I'm rid of him for the duration of the crisis .

He's not a Dutchman. He's American. Karmic even had other characters refer to him as "the American".

[Coyote]

Make him a figurehead ruler, the guy that spearheded Socialism to them, and the real gov't got away on the Slava. Perhaps he was intended as a decoy from the start. Now he can go to South America and become the firestorming leader of a "government in exile" or leader of "The Dutch Legion".

[Steve]

Make him a figurehead ruler, the guy that spearheded Socialism to them, and the real gov't got away on the Slava. Perhaps he was intended as a decoy from the start. Now he can go to South America and become the firestorming leader of a "government in exile" or leader of "The Dutch Legion".

Karmic had him as replacement for "Comrade Hammer", a Dutch Communist who was a major firebrand and supremely arrogant and aggressive, to the point he executed the Union Foreign Minister that negotiated the peace treaty with France because he dared to give up territory (He gave France North Africa and gained the most valuable bits of French West Africa in return). Said man recently died and Karmic's avatar was elected precisely because he was seen as level-headed and unlikely to rock the boat.

[Coyote]

Well... crap, then. Anyhow, he ducked out, Karmic can do as he pleases with him afterwards.

[Siege]

The idea that a foreigner would be elected head of the government in 1925 is, well, I'm frankly not sure what it is, but 'bizarre' most certainly applies.

Anyway I'm kind of in a bend here: I honestly don't know what to do with the demand for handover of colonies. I can't reasonably expect to defend them, I suppose the local governments know this too, but OOC I'm not actually the guy who owns those pieces of land. I'm just RPing the Union for the time being, I have no real vested interest in how this all ultimately ends, and simply surrendering the colonies feels like I'd be giving away Karmic's possessions.

So, at this time I'm leaning toward the colonial governments in Indonesia surrendering, but the local administrations in Australia and Kenya deciding to make a (desperate, hopeless) fight of it after hearing General Seyffardt's speech. If any of you feel this is in any way unreasonable, this would be the time to tell me.

[Steve]

Michaels isn't the only "foreigner" in a position of power, though Lance Sharkey was threatened with arrest for the "crime" of not informing the security officers of Cascadian newspapers' response to a light skirmish in the Bush. And I think Karmic was aiming for the Low Countries having embraced "Socialist Brotherhood" to the extreme.

Of course, Sharkey might anticipate that if war breaks out he'll be tried for treason by Cascadian authorities, as he is Australian by birth. How that would realistically play into his decision-making, or that of the Dutch security authorities, is up for grabs. Though the Cascadian terms may be considered acceptable by the average person dwelling there; from Karmic's descriptions they just want to keep their homes. It is possible that the order to fight is given but that most units simply cave, especially as Cascadian artillery rains leaflet shells on them before the steel rain begins.

The other mods can decide that based on how well I roll. This is why I recused myself from judging the Dutch conflict, obviously.

[MKSheppard]

Hey how well behaved are the German troops? Are they burning down entire villages or towns after a single shot or three is fired from a house, due to "franc-tireurs"?

Yes, I've been reading too much of "Marne 1914" which details much of the War's first year.

[CmdrWilkens]

So would you please leave well enough alone for the moment and let us do this?

Link
<snip>

Yet the Dardanelles campaign included a total of 16 total capital ships counting battleships, battlecruisers, and pre-dreadnought battleships. Using only converted merchant men and lighters the British and French put 5 Divisions ashore which nearly reached their objects save only that they were opposed by 6 Trukish Divisions (admittedly spread thrughout the invasion area).

I wont' get in to how you somehow began to have my hooks involve 8 divisions when I have never claimed that (so thanks for totally not fucking paying attention to any of the planning I've done) when they involve 6 which would be 1 greater than the Dardanelles invasion and yet this takes place a full decade after that occurred.

The full total of ships used in the entire campaign (as oppossed to available and in use during the landings or the forcing of the straights) included:

1x BB
3x BC
31x pre-dread
23x CL
25x DD
8x Monitor
13x SSK
11x Other

This supported the landing of 5 Divisions.


Now There may be some discussion about the landing at Punta Gorda due to the fortress but there is no reason I would not be able to carry out a 5 or 6 division landing with the forces on hand along with several converted merchantmen acting in a similar capacity to the River Clyde. In other words there is every reason to believe I would be able to carry off the southern hooks (Nicaraguan and 14th Armies) while I am in discussions with the Mods to alter the character of the northern hook based on finally having the data on Ryan's fortresses.