SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread III

[MKSheppard]

Oh yeah, that asshole. Well... fuck him.

[Mang! What gives! I thought Shep and I were Super Best Friends, yet all the shit he fucked up were mine! That WHORE! I hate him forever.]

Hey now! Just because something is called "Shroom", it shouldn't automatically be yours

[DarthShady]

PeZook, thought of a good name and position?

[Pollux]

I'm curious: is there any space for new players in this, either in taking over an NPC nation or creating a new one?

I started making one back in July, but unfortunately life interfered. Now I have some time I can commit to this.

I apologize if this is the wrong place for this.

[Steve]

I'm curious: is there any space for new players in this, either in taking over an NPC nation or creating a new one?

I started making one back in July, but unfortunately life interfered. Now I have some time I can commit to this.

I apologize if this is the wrong place for this.

It's not the wrong place. At this point any new players have to take NPCs.

However, you may have some room for imagination. There are island chains, clearly big enough to be inhabited, that we haven't yet designated, as well as the islands in the Crater Archipelago (Shep, Lonestar, which one is San Fuego?), the NPCs of Vulpesia and Cialan on the Old Continent, two Arab caliphates (Arabic and Egyptian), and I think a couple states open on Frequesue (I noticed one big interior nation is stated as being for Ford Prefect, who apparently decided not to play).

[Sea Skimmer]

However, you may have some room for imagination. There are island chains, clearly big enough to be inhabited, that we haven't yet designated, as well as the islands in the Crater Archipelago (Shep, Lonestar, which one is San Fuego?), the NPCs of Vulpesia and Cialan on the Old Continent, two Arab caliphates (Arabic and Egyptian), and I think a couple states open on Frequesue (I noticed one big interior nation is stated as being for Ford Prefect, who apparently decided not to play).

I've been working on write ups for the Egyptian-Libya states, and they are a bit integral to Japanistani stablity so I do not want to see a player taking one of those over.

[Karmic Knight]

Khitan is a (relatively) modern country now, and Astaria is not a pirate haven or another BorderStatesque shithole.

But does Astaria have to deal with pirates, that is how I am going to market the idea, "Why send fleets of ships after pirate havens when you can just go under the pirates."

However, you may have some room for imagination. There are island chains, clearly big enough to be inhabited, that we haven't yet designated, as well as the islands in the Crater Archipelago (Shep, Lonestar, which one is San Fuego?), the NPCs of Vulpesia and Cialan on the Old Continent, two Arab caliphates (Arabic and Egyptian), and I think a couple states open on Frequesue (I noticed one big interior nation is stated as being for Ford Prefect, who apparently decided not to play).

If Pollux wants, I can write a massive failure of the Articles of Union, and he can take over the Federated Republic of Eutopia, via a recall of Livens.

[Steve]

He might want some more leeway in what he creates. I think he'd work well as one of the island chains north of Veleria.


Also, did I curveball anyone with Judge Foster's ruling and remarks on the Shepistani lawsuit?

[Raj Ahten]

Just FYI most of the slave trade in Frequesque ought to be local agents doing the rounding up and initial sales. Astaria is just one possible, though relatively profitable, market. In short the world isn't filled with Astarian slave merchants running around with butterfly nets, it's mostly locals who see an opportunity when their region declines into chaos.

I'm going to be working on this angle a bit myself. The CFR is rife with local slave trading, with the Revolutionary Front kidnapping many for their "small boys units."

[Steve]

Given Pollux's request to be considered for joining the game, I wanted to point something out. Namely, the number of islands that in the game have not been "claimed" or had any governments established over them, quite unlikely IMHO.





I know one of the Crater islands is San Fuego, and I believe the Fucklands are still missing from the final map (I figure they're between the Crater Continent and Svalbardia, which I figure is an NPC now since Seth's not playing).

Pollux, if you have any ideas let us hear 'em.

Edit: According to Lonestar San Fuego is the "biggest island", and that appears to be the one due south of the Augustine/Dominion border region. But that leaves the other islands.

Also, what nation is it on the western end of the continent, Shepistan's western neighbor? A breakaway Shepistani state that refuses to rejoin Shepistan?

[CmdrWilkens]

There are also the two NPC nations which border Shepistan and the Old Dominion respectively though such a nation would obviously have a foreign and domestic history severely constrained by relations with the two big powers on the continent.

[Karmic Knight]

I have and still think those are just a fuck-up, remnants of the great lakes left over when messamerica was moved.

[Raj Ahten]

Langley, Sirnoth, the Vineyards and San Dorado are reputable nations. I'm not selling shit to Turd World shitholes, Velaria, or whatnot.

From your perspective, not from ours.

Langley bought some Crimson, or was it Byzantine, S-300/400s and San Dorado bought some of your Su-something somethings. They're friendly nations and we can actually convince them to ally with us, rather than Shepistan and Japanistan, or the MESS.

If we station bombers and subs in their territory, Shepistan and Japanistan might also divert some of their bombers to those countries - meaning *slightly* less Shep/Jap bombers are sent to kill us in the Old Continent. That also means Shepistan and Japanistan will need *slightly* more jet fuel.

As an aside, this sort of reasoning is why Indhopal wants the Old Continent to stay out of Frequesue . They'll get us involved in wars that have nothing to do with us dog darn it!

[Steve]

How is the Frequesue Conference going anyway? It's been going on for about half a year now with no end in sight.

Also, I need to find out if Stas is going to react to VP Verdes' brief visit to Livorno to try and get the CSR to return to the Conference.

I'm assuming the Conference is bogging down as nations attending it are quibbling over the mechanisms of guaranteeing the continent's further neutrality. After all, the FTO appears rather... feeble when it comes to resisting outside forces in wanting to mix things up on Frequesue.

[Raj Ahten]

How is the Frequesue Conference going anyway? It's been going on for about half a year now with no end in sight.

Also, I need to find out if Stas is going to react to VP Verdes' brief visit to Livorno to try and get the CSR to return to the Conference.

I'm assuming the Conference is bogging down as nations attending it are quibbling over the mechanisms of guaranteeing the continent's further neutrality. After all, the FTO appears rather... feeble when it comes to resisting outside forces in wanting to mix things up on Frequesue.

Conferences in game do seem to bog down after awhile most of the time. (I still have a phone call with the President of San Dorado to finish up for instance.....). Unless the conference is continuing in "unreal" time, I think we'll have to assume there wasn't to be any official agreement at the conference once the CSR walked out.

[Steve]

How is the Frequesue Conference going anyway? It's been going on for about half a year now with no end in sight.

Also, I need to find out if Stas is going to react to VP Verdes' brief visit to Livorno to try and get the CSR to return to the Conference.

I'm assuming the Conference is bogging down as nations attending it are quibbling over the mechanisms of guaranteeing the continent's further neutrality. After all, the FTO appears rather... feeble when it comes to resisting outside forces in wanting to mix things up on Frequesue.

Conferences in game do seem to bog down after awhile most of the time. (I still have a phone call with the President of San Dorado to finish up for instance.....). Unless the conference is continuing in "unreal" time, I think we'll have to assume there wasn't to be any official agreement at the conference once the CSR walked out.

Well, a treaty can still result, or at least an agreement of some form, and the CSR could, while not agreeing to it or ratifying it, unofficially accept the treaty for the most part (unless aspects too strongly diverge from CSR interests) and let things die down in Frequesue.

[CmdrWilkens]

I have and still think those are just a fuck-up, remnants of the great lakes left over when messamerica was moved.

Nonetheless they are on the map. that being said just as any nation near Shepistan/OD will be affected by those politics any nation that close to Wilkonia (as well as the IRT and Cascadia) will have their outlook severely affected by the politics of those countries.

[Steve]

Well, they're certainly closest to you, and Rogue's closer than I am.

If Cascadia has any kind of major influence among the islands I posted, it'd be the northern islands between Messamerica and Langley.

Also, for Yenchin's approval and to get opinions on the price tags:
Findings of the Cascadian-Serenite CVA Project


Design 1

70,000 ton displacement
Air Wing: 56-62 fixed wing, 8-10 rotary
Propulsion: Nuclear or Conventional
Cascadian ATORP System (comparable to CSR RBU systems)
CIWS
SAM battery
Estimated Cost: $8.3 Billion for Nuclear, $7.1 Billion for Conventional


Design 2

66,300 ton displacement
Air Wing: 50-56 fixed wing, 8-10 rotary
Propulsion: Nuclear or Conventional
Cascadian ATORP System (comparable to CSR RBU systems)
CIWS
SAM battery
Estimated Cost: $7.6 Billion for Nuclear, $6.6 Billion for Conventional

The modern day British CVF project, to be the Queen Elizabeth-class, is estimated to cost £3.9 billion. However, the British have never built a 65,000 ton ship before and haven't built anything near that since the Eagle and Ark Royal in the 40s and 50s. OTOH, Serenity had a full-fledged CVN (albeit possibly with MESS assistance) and Cascadia has built three 57,000+ton carriers in the last twenty years (I figure Defiant was funded in the late 80s and laid by 1990, probably in 88 or 89, with Intrepid and Republic likely being laid by 1993-94) as well as three LHDs the size of a modern Wasp-class. As a result, i figured the costs for development might not be so high.

What I'm mostly uncertain of is the price for a nuclear power plant instead of a conventional one.

Edit: Someone provided data for me that Enterprise cost $450M compared to America's $400M in the 60s. Even considering that Enterprise had eight nuclear reactors and was a radical design, I figured the formula of adding an eighth to the cost of a comparable conventional carrier was a good basis, though I ended up adding a few hundred million in both cases.

[Raj Ahten]

How is the Frequesue Conference going anyway? It's been going on for about half a year now with no end in sight.

Also, I need to find out if Stas is going to react to VP Verdes' brief visit to Livorno to try and get the CSR to return to the Conference.

I'm assuming the Conference is bogging down as nations attending it are quibbling over the mechanisms of guaranteeing the continent's further neutrality. After all, the FTO appears rather... feeble when it comes to resisting outside forces in wanting to mix things up on Frequesue.

Conferences in game do seem to bog down after awhile most of the time. (I still have a phone call with the President of San Dorado to finish up for instance.....). Unless the conference is continuing in "unreal" time, I think we'll have to assume there wasn't to be any official agreement at the conference once the CSR walked out.

Well, a treaty can still result, or at least an agreement of some form, and the CSR could, while not agreeing to it or ratifying it, unofficially accept the treaty for the most part (unless aspects too strongly diverge from CSR interests) and let things die down in Frequesue.

Well, what form do you see the treaty taking at this point? Asking people to not station troops in Frequesue just isn't going to work I think, for one because I don't think the local powers in Frequesue can reciprocate on that front .

[Steve]

Well, for one, what nations would want to be in Frequesue save Tian Xia and the CSR?

Secondly, not every nation in the world is friendly to them, either or both, and they might be willing to support Frequesue's right to be protected from external conflicts because they want to enjoy the same benefits.

Finally, neither Tian Xia nor the CSR are immune to international opinion, especially among their allies. Frequesue needs to argue it's case, and this conference is the best opportunity for that. Of course, Frequesue also needs to shape up its act. Piracy must be suppressed vigorously (I noticed San Dorado doing that), lawlessness prevented, unstable countries stablized, etc. Coilerburg may need attention because a military junta is not the most stable government they can have (pressure from the FTO should be applied to force them to accept elections now that the San Magdalena Peace Accords have presumably been ratified).

The FTO needs to prove it can make Frequesue stable. If it can't, if there are still multiple points of instablity, if Coilerburg can't get past rule by a military junta where we now have officers indulging in slave-trading to pad their pockets, if the Muertan piracy can't be suppressed, then you're leaving plenty of room for outside interference to occur.

The CFR situation must also be dealt with, fast. That's another opening for foreign intervention (the CSR sent Tu-160s to overfly the West Velerian coast because of one girl with CSR and Byzantine parentage on Star of Sweethaven: what do you think they'll do if another CSR citizen working with the International Peace Corps or some other group is abducted by the Revolutionary Front or another of the CFR factions?) that you must plug up.

[Shroom Man 777]

What propaganda help?

IIRC, you did some press releases and the like.

Hrm... I guess I did.

I also sold Shady some Stratellites and Dirigibles for his Ministry of Truth. So he can have blimps flying over the Border States while blaring propaganda and indoctrination. I also sold him armored vehicles!

Bah! I'm actively aiding Shady in his annexation!


ALSO:

I don't mind the Shroom names and I for one think that George Shroomwell is awesome - as is his most renowned work Nineteen Shroomty-Four

But let's just get it straight - just because it has 'Shroom' in it doesn't make it Shroomanian, unless I say so. It does increase the chances of it being Shroomanian, but still. Britain has the Anglosphere, Shroomania has the Angloshroom.

[K. A. Pital]

Fingolfin once asked me what are we going to replace our Kirovs and Slavas with.

Well, here's the answer. With established air carrier groups the Kirov kinda loses it's meaning (that's why Kirovs are going for a re-shuffling towards a "Meteorit" cruise missile armament), and dedicated missile cruisers - especially with missiles that have 800 km effective range - can be stripped of unnecessary secondary weapons, etc. and just have two types of weaponry - anti-air (a navalized version of S-400 with "Podkat" radars to be integrated into the "Mars-Passat" (Soviet AEGIS) capable of tracking 80 targets simultaneously) and anti-ship - the really existed plan to make the "Granit" a ramjet weapon, and extend it's range and speed. All elements of the weapons complex existed in reality, and such a project existed as well (it was dumped in favour of Kirov) - but now it's back in full glory.

CGN Pr. 1165 "Fugas".


One such ship will be laid up next year P.S. The shafts are already created a little larger than on the "Kirov" to allow re-shuffling for future types of cruise missiles if needed.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Hmm.. that ship might be a good complement to the new destroyers I'm building... dedicated ship killers/AA escorts.

But these missiles aren't altogether long range. So I guess we will have to leave the strategic land attacks to the SSGNs.

[K. A. Pital]

You can re-shuffle the AShMs for cruise missiles. The shafts here have a larger diameter (almost 1 m). But the cruise missiles would have to be no larger than 0,95 in diameter and no larger than 10 m long.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

You can re-shuffle the AShMs for cruise missiles. The shafts here have a larger diameter (almost 1 m). But the cruise missiles would have to be no larger than 0,95 in diameter and no larger than 10 m long.

What sort of warheads do our missiles have? I'm particularly worried about the issue of dealing with hardened targets and the warhead has to be able to penetrate meters of concrete.

[Norseman]

Khitan is a (relatively) modern country now, and Astaria is not a pirate haven or another BorderStatesque shithole.

But does Astaria have to deal with pirates, that is how I am going to market the idea, "Why send fleets of ships after pirate havens when you can just go under the pirates."

At this point we do indeed have to deal with them , partly because of our treaty with the other Velarian states, and partly due to the presence of the Japanistanis.