SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread III

[Shroom Man 777]

They got Jean Louise!

[Lonestar]

Well, that was anticlimatic. What Hideous monstrosity is exiting the OR Cabin?

[Shroom Man 777]

Oh god I hope poor Yivgny is alright!

[RogueIce]

I would think "just laugh", since doing the latter means the UN gets angry. And you wouldn't like them when they're angry.

Well, you know. Technically they are a xeno power, and they aren't obligated to follow a human power at all.

It simply isn't realistic, unless you want to pull a mod fiat...

Strictly speaking, nobody is obligated to "follow" the UN at all: they have no more authority over the various human dominated nations outside the K-Zone than they do over the Bragulans.

On the other hand, they are the single most powerful nation out there, and pissing them off would be a bad idea. And while the Bragulans may be xenophobic or whatever, I don't think they're stupid enough to risk angering the UN.

Especially when you consider that if the Solarians and/or Imperium catch word that the UN is going to go fuck the Bragulan's shit up, they might decide it's a good time to make some moves of their own...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

On the other hand, they are the single most powerful nation out there, and pissing them off would be a bad idea. And while the Bragulans may be xenophobic or whatever, I don't think they're stupid enough to risk angering the UN.

Well, that's what alliances are for, really.

Especially when you consider that if the Solarians and/or Imperium catch word that the UN is going to go fuck the Bragulan's shit up, they might decide it's a good time to make some moves of their own...

The K-zone doesn't like outsiders fucking the neighbourhood up, really. We'd prefer status quo.

Because the Karlacks will be dragged into anytihng the Bragulans get involved in, and then the Shepistanis would, and then maybe even the Grand Dominion and so and so on and we get one heck of a messy mess which all of us would like to avoid.

[Shroom Man 777]

Strictly speaking, nobody is obligated to "follow" the UN at all: they have no more authority over the various human dominated nations outside the K-Zone than they do over the Bragulans.

On the other hand, they are the single most powerful nation out there, and pissing them off would be a bad idea. And while the Bragulans may be xenophobic or whatever, I don't think they're stupid enough to risk angering the UN.

Especially when you consider that if the Solarians and/or Imperium catch word that the UN is going to go fuck the Bragulan's shit up, they might decide it's a good time to make some moves of their own...

Then we can just point out the various similar actions done by nations such as the Byzantine Imperium, which has exterminatused two worlds so far this game year, and rail on about how these humanocentrist paleoneometapost-imperialistic pseudoultra-colonialistic humans are disenfranchising the various alien nations of the galaxy, how the UN is The Man trying to put the Bragulan brother down, etcetera. The Bragulan Minister of Truth would call it 'Horrendously haggard hare-brained humanistic hypocritical horseshit!' And we'd beam out communiques to the various alien nations to stand up against the cancerous human encroachment and viral infestation of the nine vectors of known space, how a cure must be made, how the proletariats of the galaxy must set up a resistance movement to prevent the further disenfranchisement and oppression of our non-human brethren.



Remember Falafel Phil O'Leily from Faux News going on and on about the MESS, back in game 2?

ALSO, I think it's a bit unfair for guys to just use the Mod Hammer at a relatively innocuous act rather than exhaust other options first like, say... roleplaying their actual nation/s respective reactions to the situation and dealing with it like that, etc. etc. etc.

[RogueIce]

ALSO, I think it's a bit unfair for guys to just use the Mod Hammer at a relatively innocuous act rather than exhaust other options first like, say... roleplaying their actual nation/s respective reactions to the situation and dealing with it like that, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not advocating using the Mod Hammer at all. I'm just responding to the notion that "toss UN envoy into the mines of Jenova" is just not a very good idea.

As far as when and where it gets used, and whether or not the UN cares to intervene or for what reason, that's pretty much up to Steve.

[Shroom Man 777]

Blah, I'd really prefer if the modhammer wasn't an NPC nation. We didn't have that in either SDNWs 1 or 2, dunno about 3. Modding could be done OOC or whatevers. Yes, we did need mod-stuff to settle SDNW1/2 disputes, but that was over people griping over military trivias and GRAPHS and the existence of a modhammer NPC probably won't change that either. Eh, meh.

For obvious reasons, I'd rather not have the UN sticking its nose anywhere, least of all the Koprulu Zone. We police ourselves, we've got our internal politics going, we're all seasoned SDNW veterans, we're big boys now, we're repeat players and we've shown ourselves able to play with others and to work with storylines. We're not newbies or power-playing dicks who need to be restrained and whacked with a newspaper. We've got a system. So we're not in need of mod action.

If you guys want to stick your noses in, don't use an out-of-context designated-modhammer NPC from half a galaxy away to do it in a contrived fashion. Use yer damn nations. We're already down on international interactions as it is.

Plus, I'm still going to whine about how 99% of the whole galaxy is filled with damn dirty humans!

[RogueIce]

Blah, I'd really prefer if the modhammer wasn't an NPC nation. We didn't have that in either SDNWs 1 or 2, dunno about 3. Modding could be done OOC or whatevers. Yes, we did need mod-stuff to settle SDNW1/2 disputes, but that was over people griping over military trivias and GRAPHS and the existence of a modhammer NPC probably won't change that either. Eh, meh.

The theory is, if somebody is being a dick, having the UN around provides a more inventive way to deal with the situation than A) forcing a retcon or B) rocks fall, everybody dies out of nowhere. Though those options are still valid, if Steve feels it needs to be done.

For obvious reasons, I'd rather not have the UN sticking its nose anywhere, least of all the Koprulu Zone. We police ourselves, we've got our internal politics going, we're all seasoned SDNW veterans, we're big boys now, we're repeat players and we've shown ourselves able to play with others and to work with storylines. We're not newbies or power-playing dicks who need to be restrained and whacked with a newspaper. We've got a system. So we're not in need of mod action.

I don't think Steve was proposing sending the 117th UN Battle Fleet out to pay a visit to Bragule. Just making random protest-y noises.

Which makes sense, in a way. Theoretically, the rule is "don't glass planets because that makes you a douche". As a practical matter, I believe the rule is only really enforced if one player starts doing that to another player, for obvious reasons. But for an in-universe concept (that is: the UN isn't happy if people get planet-glassing happy) they should, in theory, make noises if somebody starts doing that to random NPC planets as well.

In short, it's a way to keep people from BDZing somebody's systems in the event of a player vs player war, without resorting to outright retcons or enforcing some edict that military leaders will just not do that because of...quantum. It makes more sense if instead there's a good reason in-universe not to do so (the UN gets angry and starts shooting you). Of course if people glass NPC habitable planets and the UN does nothing that presents a bit of a lapse within the internal logic of it all.

Of course, I'm happy to go with Simon's general idea that the UN is no more eager to get involved in the K-Zone than most everyone else, because you guys are a bunch of nutcases anyway. And so long as you don't spread your antics outside your little corner of space, it just isn't worth the effort to do more than raise even token protests for the sole sake of maintaining appearances (which is, as I understand it, what Steve was proposing anyway: a token, not-so-serious protest because they have to say something at some point, but they're not eager to do anything beyond that).

If you guys want to stick your noses in, don't use an out-of-context designated-modhammer NPC from half a galaxy away to do it in a contrived fashion. Use yer damn nations. We're already down on international interactions as it is.

I am debating having some comment on Jenova. Essentially a mass, orchestrated charade between myself, you and Fin to effectively say: "These Jenovans are not actually citizens of the Shinra Republic, nor were they descended from such. Which means we are completely ignoring the entire thing and hope it goes away."

Plus, I'm still going to whine about how 99% of the whole galaxy is filled with damn dirty humans!

Well, if your ancestors spent more time developing technology like FTL, rather than devising ways to steal pic-a-nic baskets from under the nose of forest rangers, maybe there would be more space bears out there.

Just sayin'

[Shroom Man 777]

The theory is, if somebody is being a dick, having the UN around provides a more inventive way to deal with the situation than A) forcing a retcon or B) rocks fall, everybody dies out of nowhere. Though those options are still valid, if Steve feels it needs to be done.

I think it would be cooler if, instead of a modhammer in the form of a handwave UN, a modhammer would instead come in the form of an awesome multi-player coalition - like the one on Pendleton, but HUEGER. Maybe the UN can BE in that coalition too. It would not only be a disciplinary action against shit-players, but it would be a participative action as well! Other good players can take part in spanking the bad ones. Like weeabo!

Instead of just Steve going: "UN Modhammer blows up bad player!"

Steve can go: "Moderator action: Coalition of good player PCs blow up bad player!" and the other players can join in.

I don't think Steve was proposing sending the 117th UN Battle Fleet out to pay a visit to Bragule. Just making random protest-y noises.

Which makes sense, in a way. Theoretically, the rule is "don't glass planets because that makes you a douche". As a practical matter, I believe the rule is only really enforced if one player starts doing that to another player, for obvious reasons. But for an in-universe concept (that is: the UN isn't happy if people get planet-glassing happy) they should, in theory, make noises if somebody starts doing that to random NPC planets as well.

In short, it's a way to keep people from BDZing somebody's systems in the event of a player vs player war, without resorting to outright retcons or enforcing some edict that military leaders will just not do that because of...quantum. It makes more sense if instead there's a good reason in-universe not to do so (the UN gets angry and starts shooting you). Of course if people glass NPC habitable planets and the UN does nothing that presents a bit of a lapse within the internal logic of it all.

Of course, I'm happy to go with Simon's general idea that the UN is no more eager to get involved in the K-Zone than most everyone else, because you guys are a bunch of nutcases anyway. And so long as you don't spread your antics outside your little corner of space, it just isn't worth the effort to do more than raise even token protests for the sole sake of maintaining appearances (which is, as I understand it, what Steve was proposing anyway: a token, not-so-serious protest because they have to say something at some point, but they're not eager to do anything beyond that).

Well, looking around, I think the UN would have to CC those protest notes to a bunch of other nations aside from the Bragulans.

Note that unlike Fin and his Imperium, I don't think the Bragulans are that BDZ happy. Fingolfin keeps on going on about Exterminatusing people in MSN actually while I go "the Bragulans would rather Bragulanize the population and stick-beat them to ideological correctness" or something like that.

But, man, Majella was a special case, man! It had fucking dancing Michael Jackson deadite nanonecronite contagions! It's worse than grey goo! It's funky grey goo!

I am debating having some comment on Jenova. Essentially a mass, orchestrated charade between myself, you and Fin to effectively say: "These Jenovans are not actually citizens of the Shinra Republic, nor were they descended from such. Which means we are completely ignoring the entire thing and hope it goes away."

I think it would be better if they were actually descended from some Shinrans. So ethnically or culturally they could be somewhat Shinran. Even though they are actually unaffiliated to the actual Shinra Republic in Midgar City on Planet Midgar in the Midgar System at the Midgar Sector of MIDGAR SPAAAAAACE!

Kind of like how Steve's Marissa Moonbeam has 'Shroomanian heritage' yet obviously has no ties at all to an island-nation on Nova Terra that has a capital named Farbanti lifted straight out of Ace Combat.

Come on! You use Final Fantasy stuff all the time, you had to see it coming! Roll with it, mang! Be cool!

A suitable backstory would be, maybe, they came from a lost generation sleeper ship originating from the original Shinra Republic? But they got lost in space, and after centuries of inbreeding turned into deranged albinos possessing but a mockery of Shinran culture that is most similar to the Shinran stereotypes held by Prime Minister Shroom the 777th.

Well, if your ancestors spent more time developing technology like FTL, rather than devising ways to steal pic-a-nic baskets from under the nose of forest rangers, maybe there would be more space bears out there.

Just sayin'

It was only when Ranger Smith got lost in space (and turned into a giant spider monster chasing the Robinson family) did the Bragulans bother turning upwards towards the stars.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

For the record, I don't talk about exterminatus all the damn fucking time.

[RogueIce]

For the record, I don't talk about exterminatus all the damn fucking time.

Just on the weekends and national holidays?

[DarthShady]

And Shady's writing has become much easier to read since SDNW2

Why thank you. I'm still trying to get better though.

Shroom, a coalition of good players pouncing on a bad one is in my opinion a bad idea, it gives way to bad blood if the nations involved have no in game reason to unite against the other player. Its better to have a neutral party (The UN) do all the asskicking, so there is no resentment, at least not among players. We have the mods around for a reason - to solve these things.

[Siege]

Why would the UN even care about the fate of Majella? Hell, how do they even know about it? This a world out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, Wild Space, that's only important to the Bragulans and Solarians. And even then it wasn't important enough to actually fight over until a very specific set of circumstances arose.

I get that they'd be upset if major galactic metropoles were destroyed for no particularly good reason, but let's get some perspective here: it's already well established that colonies fail all the fucking time all over the galaxy, and that probably costs the lives of far more people than one incident that's the galactic equivalent of an average flare-up along the Congolese-Rwandese border. I suggest the UN deals with the real problems of this galaxy first before it sticks its nose in the business of sovereign states in no danger of large-scale annihilation.

[Shroom Man 777]

@ Shady: Oh right, yeah. Might end up with more CATO-MESS dramas, true.

[MKSheppard]

I suggest the UN deals with the real problems of this galaxy first before it sticks its nose in the business of sovereign states in no danger of large-scale annihilation.

If it's anything like the real UN, I feel so sorry for your pathetic humanoid ideas of utiliarianness. It will interfear at every possible point unless it is shown the error of its humanoid ways by mighty imperator darvyl s byzon.

[Lonestar]

*puffs pipe*

I say we left Nova Terra to get away from those meddlin' kids.

[Siege]

Yes, well -- regardless of the how's, what's and why's, I sure would appreciate it if before we go "lol the UN sent you an angry letter, and by letter we mean BATTLEFLEETS" we'd get, you know, a rundown of the UN and the way it's supposed to work. This is an in-game state after all, regardless of its mod-hammer nature, so one would suppose some information on the place would be in order.

[Shroom Man 777]

Possibly, it could be composed of Earth, Nova-Terra and a few immediate off-shoot star nations in its vicinity, like Alpha Centaurians joining the UN charter. Then they function like a modern day UN, but in Space? Perhaps it can be all mired in divisions and some such, until something so horrible and bad happens that it galvanizes the UN Security Council to finally take actual action (read: Mod Hammer). So, only the pan-galactic equivalent of the Rwandan Genocide or shit would force the UN's hand.

[Steve]

Damn! Those poor scavengers. They are so not going to like what they'll find (or, rather, what'll find them!).

Get fucked by a bear! Second Mohammad! I wonder how that fits in with the Klavostani Space Muslims. The Second Mohammad, I mean. Not the bear fucking.

The Outlander Commissions has its own Space Muslim population; perhaps they recognize the Second Mohammad, but the Klavostanis don't.

The Outlander Commissions have been retconned out of existence with loomer's withdrawal.

[Siege]

Then they function like a modern day UN, but in Space?

You mean act in an absurdly inconsistent fashion based on the priorities of its most powerful member states? Yeah, not only do I not think that's a good idea, I also think we wouldn't be able to RP it properly.

[Steve]

*sighs*

The UN is not going to be applied willy-nilly, okay? This whole thing stems from a freaking joke for crying out loud, and now it seems some people think they're going to have the NPC modhammer poking it's nose into places. They're not.

If people really, really want a writeup of the UN, I'll supply one later. In terms of political structure and that.

[Siege]

I'd have thought that after three rounds of this exact same thing happening, people would have realized that players respond universally badly to "lol you gonna get slapped boyo", even when such is said in a joking fashion.

[PeZook]

I'd have thought that after three rounds of this exact same thing happening, people would have realized that players respond universally badly to "lol you gonna get slapped boyo", even when such is said in a joking fashion.

Okay,now i feel kinda weird for annoying people like that I just feel that if the UN is officially supposed to frown on blasting planets to bits, they should,well...do some frowning when that happens

I'm not sure how to put it better. Political jockeing over such issues could even be fun?

Anyway, I think I'll go and annoy Shep a bit with some Collector shenanigans...

[Simon_Jester]

Anti-plutonium. Wacky.

EDIT: Oh, also, I really like von Beck's character for some reason.

Thank you. I'm trying to establish a dichotomy between the "real" Prussians (who I envision as basically being Imperial Germans; you don't keep calling your nation Prussia for a long time unless you really feel the nostalgia for the Second Reich) and the, well, Prussians-as-portrayed-by-LoC9.

It's always worth remembering, I think, how people actually living in the country would react to some of the wackier or stupider shit that can go down in an STGOD. In places like Bragule or Shepistan that's not an issue, because the wackiness is inherent in the culture and the population is entirely behind it. But in Prussia-as-LoC9-portrays-it, government mismanagement and general foolishness has got to be exasperating to the people in the country who really are capable and have their act together.

Oh god I hope poor Yivgny is alright!

Somehow I doubt it.

Ironically, the camp here are more faithfully replicating the whole horrible Moreau concept than the lunatics they think they're treating...

ALSO, I think it's a bit unfair for guys to just use the Mod Hammer at a relatively innocuous act rather than exhaust other options first like, say... roleplaying their actual nation/s respective reactions to the situation and dealing with it like that, etc. etc. etc.

The fundamental problems with that:
1) A disproportionate number of our nominal mods are already in the Koprulu Zone and have been corrupted by Chaos Shroominess general regional insanity.
2) Of the others only two (Steve and Rogue) are at all active and I'm not sure anyone would listen to Rogue anyway.
3) For that matter, what nation would the Bragulans actually listen to? I find it difficult to imagine them honoring anything other than a sufficiently large nuclear hammer held over their heads.

Blah, I'd really prefer if the modhammer wasn't an NPC nation. We didn't have that in either SDNWs 1 or 2, dunno about 3. Modding could be done OOC or whatevers...

For obvious reasons, I'd rather not have the UN sticking its nose anywhere, least of all the Koprulu Zone. We police ourselves, we've got our internal politics going, we're all seasoned SDNW veterans, we're big boys now, we're repeat players and we've shown ourselves able to play with others and to work with storylines. We're not newbies or power-playing dicks who need to be restrained and whacked with a newspaper. We've got a system. So we're not in need of mod action.

If you guys want to stick your noses in, don't use an out-of-context designated-modhammer NPC from half a galaxy away to do it in a contrived fashion. Use yer damn nations. We're already down on international interactions as it is.

Plus, I'm still going to whine about how 99% of the whole galaxy is filled with damn dirty humans!

Eh. More like 85 to 90%, even if you only count alien-run polities. But yeah I see what you're saying, mang, and I'm not unsympathetic. I actually support having something like the Koprulu Zone in the game, because it's like a little miniature corner of the sandbox for you guys to have your GRIMDARK in while the rest of us play our games too.

I don't think Steve was proposing sending the 117th UN Battle Fleet out to pay a visit to Bragule. Just making random protest-y noises...

Of course, I'm happy to go with Simon's general idea that the UN is no more eager to get involved in the K-Zone than most everyone else, because you guys are a bunch of nutcases anyway. And so long as you don't spread your antics outside your little corner of space, it just isn't worth the effort to do more than raise even token protests for the sole sake of maintaining appearances (which is, as I understand it, what Steve was proposing anyway: a token, not-so-serious protest because they have to say something at some point, but they're not eager to do anything beyond that).

Now that would arguably make a lot of sense: Of course, for maximum hilarity, a UN envoy comes to Bragule and says:

"Yeah, look, we really dislike the glassing of planets, OK? I mean, actually we dislike that a lot more than we dislike your whole conquering our co-species people. We're kinda silly that way, but what can ya do?"

Bragulan Minister of Truth: "Puny massive human state! You are just a minion of the human hierarchy trying to keep Brother Bear down! Why have you not said anything to the Imperium of Man, which has pasteurized two planets this week alone?"

"Actually..."

[Cut to Byzantine capital, where the UN sent two envoys- identical twins!]

But, man, Majella was a special case, man! It had fucking dancing Michael Jackson deadite nanonecronite contagions! It's worse than grey goo! It's funky grey goo!

[Cut back to Bragulan capital, where Minister of Truth, dangerously skirting the edges of his job parameters, actually tells this true thing to a human]

UN envoy reviews footage: "Damn. You have a point. OK, good riddance. This world had already been destroyed before you glassed it. Ah, so to speak."