SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

[Steve]

Well, after two and a half months of whining and arguing and planning... we've made it to start date!

The Story Thread is up and running, SDNW4 has officially begun!

[PeZook]

Do the Collectors worship the Gift, and protect it and its propagation above all else?

No, we just like messing with your heads

...

That came off wrong *hides bonesaw*

[Steve]

And, eh, sorry if the opening post seems busy, I was trying to do a "what they're all up to" element for my characters. Probably should've been more generic.

Oh well. The important thing is that the STGOD is now up and running.

BTW, uh, well.... I think I forgot to mention it, though I did update the ruleset... but if you have a warship with troop carrier capability, the numerical limit of troops per point of carrier capacity is now 2,000 per point, not 1,000.

[Karmic Knight]

No, we just like messing with your heads

...

That came off wrong *hides bonesaw*

Ah, because the Knights of Order can respect the drive to propagate the faith, if the Collectors were so inclined to allow their logic to be called a faith.

Well, after two and a half months of whining and arguing and planning... we've made it to start date!

The Story Thread is up and running, SDNW4 has officially begun!

Just in time for me to hit the time where I really can't work weekends, so I shall make my posts next week, if not tonight.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, you would, being brain donors. Anyway...

Ah, good to know organics sitll enjoy the tradition of selective quoting. Must be terrible to have such a low memory capacity to not remember 50% of a point

On the contrary. By the time you remember how terrible it is, you've forgotten what it is that's terrible, and since it's impossible to remember isolated terribleness without a terrible thing to remember... it vanishes and you're happy again!

FINISHED!
[brandishes Giant Ion Cannon]
Look, Mr. Robot Man, I've got nothing specific against you and yours, just... no solicitors, OK?
[continues brandishing]

Most of you don't appreciate us talking about The Gift. For some reason

Talk all you want, just stay off the property. If you want to start your own hyperwave broadcast station, we'll see about negotiating bandwidth rights with the Ministry of Ecology.

[Steve]

I have this sudden temptation to have some Collector-backed Transhumanist front group encouraging people to willingly upload en masse; it's name would be SCRATCH.

What can I say? I'm a Bebop fan.

[Beowulf]

We prefer to think of it as getting rid of useless trash. Once you accept The Gift, your perception of the universe becomes so superior that a meat-based processor seems...disgustingly weak.

Steel endures, but meat has erogenous zones.

[PeZook]

Steel endures, but meat has erogenous zones.

'Tis but a question of programming and clever sensor placement.

[Siege]

I gotta say, going by the Wiki there's an enormous proliferation of absurdly massive (1000+ points) warships going on. It wasn't so bad when an exception was made for the Collectors and the Chamarrans had one unique ship, but now we also have Byzantine battlebarges and battleships, Pfhor "Light Dreadnoughts", an immobile, $4000 point warstation by the Klavostanis (which I have slightly less issues with because of its immobility), Karlack world eather motherships... And that is with half the navies in the galaxy currently still unknown.

Frankly I think this is getting a bit ridiculous.

[Steve]

Looking at Pollux's OrBat, did I not tell everyone over a month ago that your game-start carrier wings were free and didn't have to be bought with starting GDP points?

[Grif]

After much procrastination, I finally finished my OrBat.

Will add description and fluff later.

[Norade]

I gotta say, going by the Wiki there's an enormous proliferation of absurdly massive (1000+ points) warships going on. It wasn't so bad when an exception was made for the Collectors and the Chamarrans had one unique ship, but now we also have Byzantine battlebarges and battleships, Pfhor "Light Dreadnoughts", an immobile, $4000 point warstation by the Klavostanis (which I have slightly less issues with because of its immobility), Karlack world eather motherships... And that is with half the navies in the galaxy currently still unknown.

Frankly I think this is getting a bit ridiculous.

I know, it makes my $760 monsters look tame.

[Grif]

I gotta say, going by the Wiki there's an enormous proliferation of absurdly massive (1000+ points) warships going on. It wasn't so bad when an exception was made for the Collectors and the Chamarrans had one unique ship, but now we also have Byzantine battlebarges and battleships, Pfhor "Light Dreadnoughts", an immobile, $4000 point warstation by the Klavostanis (which I have slightly less issues with because of its immobility), Karlack world eather motherships... And that is with half the navies in the galaxy currently still unknown.

Frankly I think this is getting a bit ridiculous.

I know, it makes my $760 monsters look tame.

And it makes my $350 ships look like midgets. Then again I do have a disproportionate amount of carriers compared to some of the OrBats that I have looking over.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I have no plans to lay down any battle barges and battleships any time soon.

[Norade]

And it makes my $350 ships look like midgets. Then again I do have a disproportionate amount of carriers compared to some of the OrBats that I have looking over.

Not compared to me, but that's what a $9,000 difference in naval budgets will do.

I like having 26 NPC's to start with.

[Norade]

Would anybody like to have a vessel encounter my new class of dreadnought as takes part in her first patrol after being evaluated? This need not be a hostile encounter, but something eventful would make for a good first post introducing the first of the class and her captain.

[PeZook]

I would, but we're kind far apar

[Norade]

More that there is an Imperium between us I'd say. xD

[DarthShady]

So it begins... *grins evilly*

Siege, I have a proposition for you.

[PeZook]

Holy crap the Karlacks are in reality escaped genetic experiments of the USCR led by a ghoul of President Shady!

[Simon_Jester]

I have no plans to lay down any battle barges and battleships any time soon.

Few do; Steve's making them take six years to build and nine to finish saw to that.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of everyone (or nearly everyone) having a few... well, the one I'm most closely involved in I think of as a "supermonitor;" that's where the giant ion cannon in the prologue went- the Union of Four Stars built a Really Big sector defense ship around it.

The existence of supermonitors doesn't bother me, because I routinely move my capital ships around in fleets large enough to be quite capable of wolfpacking and killing one. Sure, it'll have escorts, but I can always tell myself that the combined cost of two or three battleship divisions should be able to match any probable escort fleet they'll stack on the supermonitors.

I think everyone has incentives to actually build ships in the 350-700 range; the time required for construction gets prohibitive after that. Given the sheer depth of the backstory, it's no surprise that a lot of countries built supermonitors at one point or another, and still keep them around because it's more cost effective to refit than to scrap. But the construction time rules create significant problems with the idea of building ships that cost an enormous amount of money during the game.

In fact, I think that's the real reason we even see the supermonitors in the game- with so much backstory, no one has to worry about the enormous construction time involved in assembling the damn things. Who would bother to lay down a ship that won't be finished for a decade now, though?

Besides, when all's said and done, killing one of these empires' supermonitors is the perfect time for them to be shocked enough to make it a major game event- either they go all out total war when you blow up the pride of their fleet, or they surrender, or something.

[Norade]

I have no plans to lay down any battle barges and battleships any time soon.

Few do; Steve's making them take six years to build and nine to finish saw to that.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of everyone (or nearly everyone) having a few... well, the one I'm most closely involved in I think of as a "supermonitor;" that's where the giant ion cannon in the prologue went- the Union of Four Stars built a Really Big sector defense ship around it.

The existence of supermonitors doesn't bother me, because I routinely move my capital ships around in fleets large enough to be quite capable of wolfpacking and killing one. Sure, it'll have escorts, but I can always tell myself that the combined cost of two or three battleship divisions should be able to match any probable escort fleet they'll stack on the supermonitors.

I think everyone has incentives to actually build ships in the 350-700 range; the time required for construction gets prohibitive after that. Given the sheer depth of the backstory, it's no surprise that a lot of countries built supermonitors at one point or another, and still keep them around because it's more cost effective to refit than to scrap. But the construction time rules create significant problems with the idea of building ships that cost an enormous amount of money during the game.

In fact, I think that's the real reason we even see the supermonitors in the game- with so much backstory, no one has to worry about the enormous construction time involved in assembling the damn things. Who would bother to lay down a ship that won't be finished for a decade now, though?

Besides, when all's said and done, killing one of these empires' supermonitors is the perfect time for them to be shocked enough to make it a major game event- either they go all out total war when you blow up the pride of their fleet, or they surrender, or something.

You tell yourself your fleet will be enough when it comes face to face with my 38 ship battle group anchored by a $760 heavy dreadnought!

Then the sad truth kicks in, doing the math that fleet ends up at 5,530 and it would still have trouble taking a colony world before help arrives...

[Simon_Jester]

Your 760s are on the border between what I think of as the "battleships" (the heaviest combatants I intend to build) and the "supermonitors" (ships costing a lot more than battleships, generally 1000$ or over). You already have half a dozen and are free to turn out more, obviously, but I don't feel all that nervous about the prospect of having to face the Expansion-class in combat. They're respectable, and I certainly wouldn't want to tangle with them at less than two to one odds... why do you think my heavy capital ships travel in pairs and trios anyway?

Given the sheer cost of those battlegroup, I'm more worried about facing the aggregate tonnage of the rest of the fleet than I am about the flagship.

EDIT: Hey, Steve, is a nation's ongoing small craft production counted as part of the construction it lays down annually, or separately? I'd expect it to count; 10% of my GDP dedicated to ship construction would give me 5900$ worth of everything being laid down (and, except for Heavy and larger hulls, completed) that year, not just starships.

[DarthShady]

Holy crap the Karlacks are in reality escaped genetic experiments of the USCR led by a ghoul of President Shady!

Not quite, I have something far more sinister in mind. *maniacal laughter* Ahem. I figured I wanted to bring back the old President in some way. But having him be an upload or some such thing serving a role in the UN wouldn't be quite fair. So I've come up with another approach. I plan to have a story that will explain the origins of the Karlack Swarm, delve deep into their nature and at the same time explain just how cruel this universe really is. Especially to those of us who did not originate from it.

Step one, a reunion between old friends, provided Siege is interested.

[Norade]

Your 760s are on the border between what I think of as the "battleships" (the heaviest combatants I intend to build) and the "supermonitors" (ships costing a lot more than battleships, generally 1000$ or over). You already have half a dozen and are free to turn out more, obviously, but I don't feel all that nervous about the prospect of having to face the Expansion-class in combat. They're respectable, and I certainly wouldn't want to tangle with them at less than two to one odds... why do you think my heavy capital ships travel in pairs and trios anyway?

Given the sheer cost of those battlegroup, I'm more worried about facing the aggregate tonnage of the rest of the fleet than I am about the flagship.

EDIT: Hey, Steve, is a nation's ongoing small craft production counted as part of the construction it lays down annually, or separately? I'd expect it to count; 10% of my GDP dedicated to ship construction would give me 5900$ worth of everything being laid down (and, except for Heavy and larger hulls, completed) that year, not just starships.

I laid them down before I knew there were going to be $1,200 point battle barges laying around, but you're right compared to some they're rather modest flagships perhaps showing that the RIS shipyards have yet to be tested by a real war. I would rather have a more balanced force than one comprised of too many super heavies though. It gives a fair bit more flexibility and allows a more measured response to threats.