SDNW5 Preliminary Discussion Thread

[KhorneFlakes]

As for carrier rules, would it be alright if we used the old carrier rules in the meantime before switching out to the new rules? As long as it's not gamebreaking?

[Force Lord]

There's always room in the rogues' gallery, Tim.

Total GDP for Centrality: $63,000

As for military ships, can we still use up to 10% of our GDP for our military?

If everything goes as planned, your starting military budget will still be 100% of your annual GDP- so 63000 points of craft. Annual peacetime military construction is capped at 10% of GDP.

In your case, your order of battle may interact strangely with whatever we work out for the carrier rules, so you may want to hold off on it. I advise drawing up a preliminary order of battle based on the assumption that the SDNW4 rules still apply, then figuring out how to modify it if necessary. That's what I'm doing.

Also, no trade routes budgeted? Your call- maybe you can switch that GDP boost into a trading partner once we work out who's got who for a neighbor. Remember, bilateral trade routes are the most cost-effective way to get GDP out of NCP.
_________

Do bear in mind that events of SDNW4 may or may not have happened in the past of an SDNW5 nation, and most likely didn't happen in the same form unless we deliberately try to fit them in. The whole MEH/Eye of Sasha thing most certainly did NOT happen, at least not in this dimension.

Things like the Outlands crisis may... not have happened, but get split up and rearranged in some pastiche-like form as needed to suit the new game.

Now that you mention that about trade routes, I'm going to edit my previous post to change the GDP boost for a Trade Route. As for military units, it'll have to wait until at least tomorrow.

[KhorneFlakes]

I'll give this a shot.

The Empire of Tweed

"Greetings, librarian hunam. Have you heard of the color grue? It is said to be the mightiest color of them all."

[Simon_Jester]

KF, that should work for now if you want a head start. We'll hash things out in more detail later. Again, think of it as a preliminary- save it, don't post it, any more than I posted exactly how many ships I have. Exact fleet sizes and stuff really don't matter at this stage of the game.


Panzer, "never explain" is fine.


FL, we are still a LONG way from actual game start, though I may start a prologue thread just so people have some way to blow off steam sooner than that. There is no rush to finalize orders of battle, and I do not want anyone accusing me of trying to rush people into a fait accompli with the military rules.


Fax, make sure your concept can feasibly be outfitted with some kind of mechanisms for self-defense: an actual military of some recognizable or quasi-recognizable sort. Also, be advised that there may not, in fact, be any vampires left to kill in large sectors of the galaxy.

Then again, I suppose that might be exactly as planned.

I take it you will be extensively dependent on the tea trade? I'm reminded of WWII Britain, where tea was the island's second-largest import during the days of the U-boat blockade, and enjoyed high priority...

New rolls added.

---

Akhlut:
Hegemony of the Gray Kritarchy
5

Darkevilme:
Chamarran Empire
10

Esquire:
Hellenic Confederacy
9

FaxModem1
Empire of Tweed
6Micronation- it was all just a misunderstanding.

Force Lord:
Centrality
7

KhorneFlakes
Screworlders
6

OmegaChief:
Capellan Authority
4

Panzersharkcat:
Bastian Star Empire
10

Shinn Langley Soryu
Holy Empire of Haruhi Suzumiya?
10

Simon_Jester:
Technocracy of Umeria
7

White Haven:
League of Thought
8

[Esquire]

I'll give this a shot.

The Empire of Tweed

"Greetings, librarian hunam. Have you heard of the color grue? It is said to be the mightiest color of them all."

"Pardon, good sir - we know from the writings of Aristocratistotle that the word 'mighty' is said in many different ways; a thing which is mighty smelly does not partake of the same Eternal Form as does a thing which is mighty in war. In what way is this 'grue' the mightiest of colors?"

[FaxModem1]

"Greetings Grue people. Ignore the teenage girl in the corner with the wooden stake, we keep her well fed and well taught. We are sadly ignorant of Grue. Please feel free to give us any literature on the subject of this Grue. We import all matters of Teas, literature, and information on unnatural creatures which should be exterminated."

The man in the tweed suit and vest turns to the other diplomat in the room.

"And to you sir, what is this Eternal Form, and Aristocratistotle? May we look at our literature on the subject?"

[KhorneFlakes]

"Grue is the mightiest color by sheer virtue of been the strongest and the most endurable. Other colors have challenged the supremacy of the color Grue and none have succeeded. It is for this reason our post-alien tribune has concluded that Grue is the ultimate color, and being painted Grue grants oneself to power to tell reality to go cry in a corner."

"As to the nation of the color Grue, it is a union of the colors Green, Red, and Blue. It's presence has been felt in the 'vidya gaems' of ancient civilizations from when these 'vidya gaems' were invented."

[Panzersharkcat]

The Bastian, Neithian, and Sobekian contingents look on in confusion, as none of them understand a word that's being said, what with one species without the proper vocal structure to form English words and one species that's deaf and communicate entirely in colors, some in the ultraviolet and infrared. They look on with tilted heads, though the Sobekian proceeds to start sharpening her claws out of boredom.

[Simon_Jester]

[pauses to consider attempting to restrain conversation]

[decides right to several pages of sheer wacky in discussion is a perfectly legitimate bonus to award early adopters]

Yeah, that prologue thread is definitely going to become a necessity. You guys will need the release valve.

[KhorneFlakes]

"A note for you also, Librarian Hunams. We are actually a collective of post-aliens, equivalent to your post-humans. We, in our pursuit of the inane. the glorious, and of course, the color Grue, have genetically and cybernetically enhanced ourselves to the point that our bodies are mere avatars for us. Our body might die, but we will not, and instead we will go on to inhabit a new body like our old one."

"In short, we wish to share the glories of drugs that do not destroy the mind, alcohols with glorious megaflavours, and of course, the collective insanity that is our culture and it's people. Oh, and the Color Grue. But only some of us give praise to the color Grue."

[Panzersharkcat]

The head of the Neithian starts displaying three stripes of red, green, and blue before trying to merge them all together into one big band of color.

For reference, Neithians look like this.

[KhorneFlakes]

"Glorious! Let us all praise the color Grue together then, Neithian friends!"

[FaxModem1]

So, six points? Let's make sure I'm doing this correctly.

The Empire of Tweed
Formerly known as the Watchers Council

The planet Council is the capital of the Tweed Empire, founded in the 2100s after the Watchers took their archives and all supplies from the planet Earth and looked for greener pastures to set up a new base to live in after the slayers failed to prevent an apocalypse.

Population: 3 billion
Colony Sector
NCP cost: 1 point

Economy: 1 Trade route, so 1 NCP
Trade partner is the 'Bloody Colonials'
a partner from the land once known as America, the Bloody Colonials ship us tea that we import, and in exchange we export copies of our literature and Watcher protection. Sometimes we send in the Slayer in cases of special protection.

In the solar system of Tweed, there is the Warp Gate: 1 NCP, which we use in cases of war: for in cases of emergency evacuations or deployment.

The remaining 3 NCP are for our ships full of Watchers. We protect the innocent from harm, but in case of problems beyond that, we send in the Slayer, a girl who is our main means of taking out big problems.

Did I do that right?

The Tweed representative looks at the non-human creatures. His female bodyguard in the corner looks bored, but checks in a book to see if they fit the profile for inhuman monster.

[Darkevilme]

“Old Masters, Fathers, failures..heed our return.
You failed to tame us, you failed to slay us. Even in our birth you failed..
You have shown yourselves unworthy of our service.
So now we return from our long exile, return from the dark to bring a lesson to our creators who presumed to rule us.
It is a time for new masters, it is a time for the unworthy to kneel at the feet of their betters. It is time for the Fathers to see how their daughters have surpassed them.
It is a new time, our time.”

[Scottish Ninja]

Okay - the Volscian Confederacy, one of the great crapholes of the galaxy - loosely organized, highly corrupt, and usually ineffective in governance; military forces largely too disorganized to drive out the pirates and mercenaries who have taken up residence there (the distinction between pirate and mercenary typically being how any particular band has chosen to earn their pay that day); but the highly varied nature of the multicultural region has its bright spots (some areas being more Somaliland than Mogadishu), its gray areas (like major interstellar corporations exploiting some rich natural resources - often without the government's approval, backed up by their mercenaries if anyone objects), and its strange ones (like the entrepôt space station of Land's End, which is almost totally lawless and unmanaged yet somehow stable and functional. Overworked space traffic controllers may be responsible somehow).

[FaxModem1]

"I do beg your pardon." The Human librarian said as he waved off his Slayer. "Are you trying to bring about some dark power?"

[The Romulan Republic]

Are you sure you don't want a macronation instead? If you have a micronation in mind, of course, we can certainly go for it. Micronations typically have less than 5 NCPs (at the very high end), more like 1 or 2 (for moderately civilized and affluent but small interstellar or single-planet polities) ranging down to "less than 1" for single planets in second-galaxy and third-galaxy sectors. Depending on what you have in mind, well. Take your pick.

Yes, I want a micronation. Two or three NCPs will be sufficient for what I have in mind.

[Esquire]

"Greetings Grue people. Ignore the teenage girl in the corner with the wooden stake, we keep her well fed and well taught. We are sadly ignorant of Grue. Please feel free to give us any literature on the subject of this Grue. We import all matters of Teas, literature, and information on unnatural creatures which should be exterminated."

The man in the tweed suit and vest turns to the other diplomat in the room.

"And to you sir, what is this Eternal Form, and Aristocratistotle? May we look at our literature on the subject?"

"Surely you have heard of the teachings of Smiteocrates, who punched the unjust jurists of Athens in the face when they sentenced him to death for disturbing the peace? His student Pluto taught Aristocratistotle, then a young son of the Attic nobility, that there existed patterns on which everything in the physical part of the cosmos models itself. That was before he was demoted from a philosopher to a high school teacher, of course... Aristocratistotle agreed readily to this, but in his own writings made it quite clear that some of these patterns, also called the Eternal Forms for they are as unchanging as anything is, are better than others, and that he partook of the best one. I can arrange for the works of all three of these greatest of philosophers to be transmitted to you."

[Simon_Jester]

So, six points? Let's make sure I'm doing this correctly.

Um. No, you're not doing it right. NCPs are not spent on combat assets, they're spent on economic assets that determine how many combat assets you get. It's all right, it's not like I've put up a set of naval rules (nor will I, until some decent amount of time has been made available to actually discuss the nation creation rules, rather than just rolling things up.

Also, you are grossly underestimating the size of your polity if it is to be a 'major nation state'. That "6" was the roll on the "2d6" random component of your 25+2d6 NCP roll.

Can we work this out later?

Although actually, a layout roughly like what you describe would work totally fine as a small micronation, which may be exactly what you have in mind. There's no obvious reason why the Space Vampire Hunters would have dozens of worlds under their direct rule, given that there probably aren't that many vampires left in the universe in the first place, assuming there ever were.

The Empire of Tweed
Formerly known as the Watchers Council

The planet Council is the capital of the Tweed Empire, founded in the 2100s after the Watchers took their archives and all supplies from the planet Earth and looked for greener pastures to set up a new base to live in after the slayers failed to prevent an apocalypse.

Is it acceptable to you if Earth got better after the apocalypse turned out to be something of an anticlimax?

In the solar system of Tweed, there is the Warp Gate: 1 NCP, which we use in cases of war: for in cases of emergency evacuations or deployment.

The remaining 3 NCP are for our ships full of Watchers. We protect the innocent from harm, but in case of problems beyond that, we send in the Slayer, a girl who is our main means of taking out big problems.

Just out of curiosity, what would you do if one of your problems showed up in a battlegroup full of nuclear-tipped missiles?

(Any major polity should have an answer for this, even if it's a weird and unconventional answer. A minor state can get away with an answer like "Eek. Surrender.")

[Panzersharkcat]

Hmm. I'm considering putting a lot of NCPs (maybe five to six NCPs) into trade routes, as I want to make the Empire a major commerce hub. After reading through the rules, I'm not totally certain how wise that would be. On one hand, it would make the Bastians heavily involved in trying to resolve wars and trade disputes. On the other, it may end up violating the intent of keeping them neutral and non-interventionist, as things may escalate.

[FaxModem1]

"Please do. We're always happy to have more works of literature at our disposal."

The Watcher remembers why he is there.

"I've come here today to try and see who would be interested in purchasing the complete Demonic Encyclopedia. It features every type of demon out there, and how to deal with them, from the Ano-Moviv to the Zealots. And if you're interested. We Watchers from the Empire of Tweed would be delighted to patrol your systems and cleanse them of the demon filth. All for a small fee, of course."


To Simon:
Yeah, I'm going for small micro-nation here.

As for if a fleet came into contact with their Stake class starships or attacked the homeworld? If they were working for the forces of darkness, they would smite them, or if too big a problem, send in the Slayer, who will shoot her crossbow at them, failing that, use a pointy stick, failing that, use a sword, failing that, use her fists and legs. Failing that, we get a new slayer.

Sure, Earth could have recovered a day later for all the Council knows, they just gave up on it and decided to rebuild elsewhere.

[Panzersharkcat]

The Sobekian walks forward out of curiosity. She starts sniffing the Watcher. Hopefully, the guy doesn't freak out over the ten-foot-tall reptilian with gigantic claws.

[FaxModem1]

The Watcher takes out a small metallic device covered in jewels. Once satisfied that the creature that is sniffing him is NOT demonic, he begins introductions.

"Greetings,I represent the Tweed Empire. How may I help you?"

[Simon_Jester]

Hmm. I'm considering putting a lot of NCPs (maybe five to six NCPs) into trade routes, as I want to make the Empire a major commerce hub. After reading through the rules, I'm not totally certain how wise that would be. On one hand, it would make the Bastians heavily involved in trying to resolve wars and trade disputes. On the other, it may end up violating the intent of keeping them neutral and non-interventionist, as things may escalate.

Trade with immediate neighbors is fairly safe as long as those neighbors don't decide to pick a fight. Longer-range trade is a bit more of a gamble- but wherever you have a bilateral trade relationship with someone, you may also have a friend, and they will probably support you in attempts to ensure neutrality of deep space.

Arguably, the 'trade emporium' strategy is a good way to secure neutrality, as it lowers the risk that you will be diplomatically isolated by an aggressor.

To Simon:
Yeah, I'm going for small micro-nation here.

As for if a fleet came into contact with their Stake class starships or attacked the homeworld? If they were working for the forces of darkness, they would smite them, or if too big a problem, send in the Slayer, who will shoot her crossbow at them, failing that, use a pointy stick, failing that, use a sword, failing that, use her fists and legs. Failing that, we get a new slayer.

Okay. Well then, assume the Tweed nation's total value is... one or two NCP, concentrated in a single star system, with a military point cost statted accordingly. Their actual military would probably be just the national self-defense force; all the wacky vampire slaying and whatnot would probably be handled on the side.

If you get any ideas for actual interstellar empires, feel free to bring them up instead of or along with the Tweed concept.

Sure, Earth could have recovered a day later for all the Council knows, they just gave up on it and decided to rebuild elsewhere.

Heh.

[FaxModem1]

Sure, basically the Watchers are like the Vatican. They protect home, but everywhere else they send agents to deal with the 'forces of evil' and the 'protection of the innocent'.