SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread VI

[Simon_Jester]

Force Lord, their job is to administer enemas to grotesquely obese idiots.

How can it be a good thing to be disguised as one?

There are many ways for this to end up funny, mind you.

[Force Lord]

That's what I get for asking Shroom for ideas.

[Dark Hellion]

Does anyone else remember when CN brought his nation into existence we stated that there were other minor nations or outposts that existed in the sectors that were not displaced, as a way of smacking CN around kinda cheaply for his "all my sectors worth of planets are in one system per sector"? Because it also makes mockery of DH's claim by the emissaries to owning all of those three sectors. Sorry but that is the way I see it, and I am not even that sorry. DH if you want to be a team player then I would be more sorry, but your claims are not going to be of help to the Inhumanist League to which you want to be a part of.

EDIT: ForceLord, are you going to discuss your plans with any other nation or are you going to run this solo? Also Zor what are you sending to support the Catamaran operations?

I claimed control not ownership which is a big difference. I controlled those sectors by the simple virtue of having the only military in the quadrant (excepting the orks who only tend to plunder) for thousands of years. I doubt international law allows anyone to claim ownership over the vacuum of space anyways. Besides, international law is not some mystical arbitrator of what is what actually is. By international law get enough miles off the coast and the U.S. doesn't own the waters there, but if you think the USN can't control those waters you are gravely mistaken.

And somehow I think giving 4 sectors to set up logistical bases for the league will be considered being a team player. Reality isn't an RTS, when you have allies you don't just share control and send in a deathball, seperate nations do their own things but they coordinate them to achieve the common objective.

[Simon_Jester]

DH, this posturing about how tough and realistic you're being isn't going to get you very far.

I claimed control not ownership which is a big difference. I controlled those sectors by the simple virtue of having the only military in the quadrant (excepting the orks who only tend to plunder) for thousands of years. I doubt international law allows anyone to claim ownership over the vacuum of space anyways.

Really? Why not? Why wouldn't national territory be defined to include a volume of interstellar space that encloses all the property of a multi-system polity? Since it's in the interests of every major nation to assert control of the space between their stars, common sense dictates that international law will be adjusted accordingly.

Besides, international law is not some mystical arbitrator of what is what actually is. By international law get enough miles off the coast and the U.S. doesn't own the waters there, but if you think the USN can't control those waters you are gravely mistaken.

The US Navy is bigger than other people's navies. Yours isn't. Thus, your claim of sovereignty is not necessarily going to be respected; it's as if the German navy of 1910 had asserted control of the North Sea. At most, you have a relatively strong navy that is based conveniently nearby, but you're not the only person capable of contesting that space.

So the simple, blithe land grab is likely to provoke fights with people who don't want to see you taking those sectors, particularly if the people who already live in those sectors take exception to being ruled by loud lunatic robots. And you can bet there are people living in a volume of space that large.

And somehow I think giving 4 sectors to set up logistical bases for the league will be considered being a team player. Reality isn't an RTS, when you have allies you don't just share control and send in a deathball, seperate nations do their own things but they coordinate them to achieve the common objective.

The Bragulans are already basing out of Chamarran space, the Chamarrans are right there and don't want or need your fleet bases but are likely to find your expansionism disturbing. What other big League players are there?

Put simply, to convince people to go along with your expansionism, you must convince them that it is worth it. A mere temporary military advantage that they can take care of themselves isn't necessarily enough. Especially when you do not first ask them whether they will tolerate your behavior, and merely assert that you own everything.

I mean, this is a shining example of how not to secure control of territory during a coalition war. You at least mentioned your plans to others, but in the form of "we declare sovereignty over X."

[shakes head]

[Mayabird]

DH, you could just say that your guys are being kinda dumb about this entire thing and you know it'll cause problems and will accept the terrible, terrible, ridiculous consequences, which was what I was assuming when you first did it.

[Simon_Jester]

That would be far and away the best and most honorable solution.

[Dark Hellion]

You mean like when I said I was purposely doing these things to create new RP hooks for people. You know:

Plus it should create a lot of nice political fallout for players to interact over with those who absolutely condemn it, those who publicly condemn it but really couldn't care less, and those who are happy to see the utter destruction of what is viewed as a galactic threat.

Back when I first announced this whole damn thing. And were the hell are the claims of landgrabs or sovereignty coming from. I never said a damn thing about that. The Emissaries are controlling the space of those sectors.

I am getting really fucking tired of defending every action I make from OoC nitpicking, especially because I have gone out of my way the last month or so to defend other peoples in game actions from the same. If Maya and Shroom can have the Karlacks eat a motherfucking planet without investing any of their resources I don't see why I can't claim to control the space that I have put actual fucking warships in.

[Shroom Man 777]

Guise, let it roll. If he wants to do it, then he'll do it, and maybe we can respond to it IC so we can have more stuffs to do in-game. It'll be more interesting that way!

[Mayabird]

In our defense, the motherfucking planet eating was in response to another player's dumb actions.

MEH Earth (Earth 3? What are we going to call that place?) will be a giant mess by the end of this. More than it already was, I mean.

[Tanasinn]

It'll certainly be more exciting than stomping on the nuts of an NPC.

[Steve]

I was kind of assuming DH was intentionally provoking potential resistance by openly declaring his control of those sectors, so what exactly is the problem here?

[Simon_Jester]

Sorry, I'm fine with that. It's more the OOC tone that bothers me than the IC behavior.

What the XylyXians are doing is kind of unlikely to pass unremarked, or to be seen as justified IC, unless they get lucky. This should be fairly clear to everyone involved, and arguably is.

So if DH attempting to justify the behavior OOC by talking about how international law isn't the be-all and end-all and whatnot, that just makes him look silly. It's much more respectable to being the guy who sets out in a forthright manner to do all manner of in-character logical dickery, knowing that what he is doing will have complicated and messy consequences, than it is to be the guy who makes dodgy attempts at self-justification while still making trouble for other people.

Shep is a good example of this line; when he was more active he would sort of wobble back and forth across the line, but spent most of it on the side of cool rather than the side of lame. He'd make trouble, but he wouldn't try to pretend that he wasn't making trouble.


Whereas stuff like "I controlled those sectors by the simple virtue of having the only military in the quadrant (excepting the orks who only tend to plunder) for thousands of years. I doubt international law allows anyone to claim ownership over the vacuum of space anyways. Besides, international law is not some mystical arbitrator of what is what actually is..."

That just doesn't do it for me. Like I alluded to earlier, it feels like dodgy self-justification, trying to say "I'm screwing with you, but I'm really in the right!"

[Dark Hellion]

My tone might have to do with the fact that I have spent the last couple of weeks defending mine and other players in game moves from this same kind of OoC bickering and I am getting pretty fucking tired of every goddamn action having to be approved by the OoC sub-committee.

Okey Simon, point out in game were I claimed sovereignty or ownership other than simple military control. You won't find it because its not there. This whole damn thing is a strawman.

As for being a team player, it doesn't seem like the Chamarrans, Refuge or Bragulans are that upset about having four free sectors of space that they can safely navigate. Let's look In Game again.

He also noted that the Refugees were quite pleased with this development. More powers joining in on the elimination of what they deemed to be a theological threat would no doubt be a boon to them. The Chamarrans too seemed relax a little, now that they weren't the only ones taking the brunt of the war effort.

Wow, they seem really fucking upset about me.

So, when does jury selection for this trial begin or can we all agree to just sit down and play the fucking game instead of all these OoC snipes?

[Darkevilme]

Indeed uh what is the big deal about? The way DH wrote it implied at least to me that the Emissary control over the rimward periphery of the MEH was intended to be temporary (although i'm not exactly sure what it's supposed to achieve, but hey that's the emissaries problem not mine). I have the idea it's pretty much just a shipping blockade but that's i think purely what i'm reading into it and not explicit. Chamarrans are fine with that especially considering the inhumanist league has been offered use of refuelling stations in the exclusion zone.

And on an entirely unrelated note: Forcelord, it's a bit too brief for me to put in a story post but as far as the Central news network versus Chamarran news network battle is going the kitties sent you a crate full of dead rats as a warning in response then proceeded to ignore you. Comment on that in your next news bulletin if you wish.

[KlavoHunter]

A crate of dead rats? Awww! Dat means kitty wubs yoouuuuuuuuuuuu! ^_^

[Simon_Jester]

Good update, Siege. Though in some private corner of my head, that planet will always be... Shroomalia!


As for you, DH, it's not really your actions I object to so much as the dodgy "who, me, I didn't do anything" tone you take in trying to defend them, when no one has obliged you to do so. You are not required to explain why your loud lunatic robots with ambitions of universal conquest have suddenly declared a large region of space to be their controlled sphere of interest; it makes quite a bit of sense.

So when you start trying to present this as morally justified, or as "it's OK because I'm really strong," or because international law isn't all it's cracked up to be, it just weakens you. It takes a forthright intention to wage dickery, which is an accepted SDNW tradition, and turns it into the sort of bullshit that reminds me of some of the worse players we've had here- appeals to naked force that make sense IC, but are spun as some kind of perfectly legitimate "I had the right to do this all along" thing OOC instead of being presented as, well, naked force.

If you want to cross the Rubicon, great, cross the damn Rubicon. Go for it, I encourage it. But man up and say "the die is cast," don't just fool around protesting that you didn't really mean it like that and it's actually OK and no one should be unhappy with what you're doing.

[Shroom Man 777]

Good update, Siege. Though in some private corner of my head, that planet will always be... Shroomalia!

Too bad you know who won't be invading that place anytime with superhuman albinos?



Guise, if we use half the energy spent in OOC spats on horses for IC around, we'd all be eating steak.

[Dark Hellion]

Try metagaming more beowulf. I hear it helps.

[Simon_Jester]

Now see, just the other day you were upset about people bitching at you out of character over actions you considered logical in-character. Have you asked Beo what his reasons were yet?

[Zor]

MEH Earth (Earth 3? What are we going to call that place?)

Howabout Mehrth?

Zor

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Now see, just the other day you were upset about people bitching at you out of character over actions you considered logical in-character. Have you asked Beo what his reasons were yet?

Beo is about as rabidly anti-xeno as I am.

[Master_Baerne]

Good update, Siege. Though in some private corner of my head, that planet will always be... Shroomalia!

Too bad you know who won't be invading that place anytime with superhuman albinos?



Guise, if we use half the energy spent in OOC spats on horses for IC around, we'd all be eating steak.

Only you, Shroom, can be so wise and make so little sense at the same time.

[Simon_Jester]

What Shroomy said about Shroomalia makes sense, but is an inside joke.

[Siege]

Quite. I doubt it gets any more obscure than that.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

I think I may be planning a bit too far ahead with regards to the MEHstomp, but I feel like doing a reenactment of the last stand of Taffy-3. In space. With the Haruhiists as the Americans and the MEH as the Japanese. If the story's written well enough, even an Aya Hirano class frigate could put up a very good fight against an MEHN Vindicator class cruiser, right? Unfortunately, I can't write naval battles very well.

On a related note, I think I finally figured out who was the inspiration for the late Umerian Commander Bob Copeland, even if it's just in name only.