Modern World STGOD Concept

[Simon_Jester]

To Simon: Of course we can keep it friendly OOC, that's the fun On more important matters, hmm...

I do like the idea of having claims against both of you. Is it possible that Umeria was also originally a colony, but an older/more successful/less isolated one, perhaps the "jewel in the crown" a la India, that now sees itself as the regional successor to the original Empire?

I'd rather not change it that far. The idea that the current ruling elite of Umeria sees itself as having unbroken succession to the people who actually administrated (not reigned over, administrated) the place in centuries past is pretty core to the national social structure.

For post-colonial history I am happier with something like China than with something like India that was owned in fee simple by a foreign power.

Ah well, you decided to go with the Britannian option. Pity; we could have had such fun.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm sure we can come up with a way to oppose each other. After all, I'm a technologically advanced state that is slipping into a fascist dictatorship that sincerely believes that all other nations are simply too stupid to understand that we've found the key to Paradise.

It's like, did you see the South Park two-parter where Cartmann winds up in the future, where there are 3 atheist societies that embrace science...but the certainty that science in superior is becoming almost a religion in and of itself? We're basically becoming that. The Cult of Paradise.

And depending on what was decided vis a vis superweapons, we've got some damn big guns to enforce it with.

[Simon_Jester]

I think the superweapons ruling is "no." If atomic bombs don't exist, we're probably not going to see orbital death rays either, or at least not orbital death rays that can't be casually swatted out of the sky by a sounding rocket and 200 kilograms of marbles.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well then. We still have our conventional military, which in Orion's case consists mostly of remote-piloted drone vehicles. No sense risking our people when we don't need to.

And if all else fails, we do have some very talented biologists.

[Agent Sorchus]

I think the superweapons ruling is "no." If atomic bombs don't exist, we're probably not going to see orbital death rays either, or at least not orbital death rays that can't be casually swatted out of the sky by a sounding rocket and 200 kilograms of marbles.

I making a poll right now just to settle this open question. While it is assumed no nukes mean no odd superweapons it is an option.

Other replies comming shortly.

ED: Oh yes, welcome E_F

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Far as I am concerned, no superweapons. The game has died enough times because of them as it is.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

well, Zook and Fin still need to decide which shape of their countries (Steve vs me) they want so that they can finish topographical details.

I'm lost. I have seen Steve, but I don't recall yours.

[Simon_Jester]

Well then. We still have our conventional military, which in Orion's case consists mostly of remote-piloted drone vehicles. No sense risking our people when we don't need to.

Mmm. Skeet!

And if all else fails, we do have some very talented biologists.

I wouldn't recommend that tack.

Far as I am concerned, no superweapons. The game has died enough times because of them as it is.

I support this statement, and suspect the mods will too. I don't care what the poll says, I'm listening to them. I trust their judgment farther than I trust most of ours here, or I wouldn't have supported them as mods.

And, to quote Sunnyside-Swamp of Dawn, Great Uncle of the Umerian people, from the Little Blue Book...

[firsttechnarch]
Entry 37: "The sum of one million men is one man, six hundred feet high."

Entry 38: "Being a giant does not make you wise."
[/firsttechnarch]

[Skywalker_T-65]

As I've said before (at least I think I have), I'm fine with whatever the choice ends up being...from the mods.

Personally, I wouldn't have WMDs even if they were available...the Arcadian system is dysfunctional as is. Toss in nukes, or chemical weapons, or bioweapons, and you have a recipe for disaster if one island has it but the others don't.

[Agent Sorchus]

Sorchus:
Pursuant to your known distaste for private side-chats setting the tone of a public game, I have decided that your objection to my posts regarding nuclear weapons should be brought out into the open. I think this is better for both of us than having me simply accept that I will be called out in private for doing things that, in my opinion, I have not done.

I have nothing to hide in this matter, and will willingly abide by any mod decision on the issue for the sake of making the game work, whether I agree with that decision or not.

However, because I recognize that you may not want your comment made public, I am going to give you a reasonable span of time to notice this before I post your PM and my response. I can't imagine why it would bother you to have that PM made public, but I respect your right to keep it private if you choose.

If you prefer, I will not post the PM-response combination.

However, if you prefer that this comment of yours not be made public, then please think twice in the future before accusing me of nasty habits. I do try to play fair and act honorably on this forum and in STGOD games. I hope I've got a decent reputation so far. If you think I am doing something wrong, I do not have a problem with you telling everyone about it, rather than just telling selected persons (me possibly included) in private.

I've learned my lesson; openness is good. Let's be open.

K lets be open.

FIRST I never said PM's are bad. See also:

@ Everyone
This is just some general advice that I've thought up since last anything happened around here. When you write a story keep the conclusion in mind so that if you are still writing we can skip ahead and keep a constant pace just by asking you for a cliff notes of the end state of your story. If it's big and international though use the discussion thread to reach a consensus conclusion that satisfies everyone more or less, again so that we can keep a constant pace and not wonder if this big story isn't going to place the world into an unknown state even though we are writing in the future compared to the Big International story. PS this means if it is a story involving the major state of the world don't use an outside communication type to setup the conclusion, it's really frustrating for those that don't use the same communication as you.

Note I never said to only use the discussion thread.

So stop with the strawman. PM's are perfectly alright, and I doubt I've ever said differently. Though I have been a little paranoid about out of forum communications, you could say I've been burned one time to many. And hell PM's aren't off forum anyway in my mind since there is a record of communication.

SECOND: Im 80% sure that posting PM's is against the spirit of the rules of SDN if not explicitly listed. Things that are in private sections of the board are private for a reason. And what good would you posting that PM do? It wouldn't add anything to the discussion which is why I sent it as a PM.

Third I'm perfectly ready to post it myself, but just look at the Poll I posted; see all the options you left off of your questions of nuclear weapons and you might see why I said what I did.

Fourth: I actually think our opinions aren't that different, which is part of the reason I sent it as a PM. I don't disagree with your post or the need to get the questions answered, just the way you said it. It would've added to the thread without adding to the discussion. It's just a side thing, that is pretty minor.

I especially agree that this should be all about trust, and think that without the least trustworthy player (Shep) we should consider more options.

Fifth: yeah my PM might not have been taken well, but it is just my observation about that one post not in general. Take that as you will.

[Agent Sorchus]

If you had responded earlier I don't think we would've had a disagreement between your backstory and fitting my nation's there. You still haven't told me what aspect of your backstory you think is irreconcilable with having a failing dictatorship there. Just that you think that having a dictatorship between a communist and a republic is not smart cause ?reasons? Yet Yugoslavia was essentially the same thing, a dictatorship sandwiched between the USSR and western Europe.

What I was saying is that if you insist on having one or more of your PCs between us, we're going to insist you align those nations' histories and such with what we have, including being the battlefield of our land war in the WWII analogue.

You have not posted any shared history in this thread. IF you have setup something out of thread well tough shit, you still haven't shared it or how you think it isn't going to work to place my country there. Other people have shared their histories and invited others to get involved with their histories.

However looking back Klavo never really wanted a buffer state anyway, to the best of my reading skills. I really don't like being the first person in a region but whatever I can go into that empty unasked for south america. At least I have internal stories I can tell

And yet you proposed having a buffer state.

A buffer state created for the purpose of our mutual history, drawn up by our agreement, which is different from a PC made by someone else.

Given all the open room, why do you want to be our neighbor again? Is there a storyline purpose you have in mind?

Theme reason: thematically having a failed republic near greater and more successful similar states as a foil allows for stories that aren't possible with different neighbors.

That is the reason. Open space means I'm going to get shit neighbors most likely, and that is only IF I get neighbors. No one asked for a 'South America' continent. I don't want to be far away from where things are going to be happening again, or surrounded by NPC states that are there only to fill space.

As for your comment on the buffer state: So what if it isn't exactly like what you were envisioning in an npc if conceptually the PC and NPC state are not that different. Few other players have the exact neighbors they would want why won't you think that mine isn't good enough?

And Sorchus, to be utterly frank, Klavo and I were discussing NPCs, but we've set our borders and I'm not changing mine a bit, so if you want a PC drawn out there, you can ask Klavo about redrawing his side and making his country larger to compensate, and if he says no, then that's going to be that. There's plenty of other space for your national ideas. Because I've yet to see any reason from you on why we should let you have a country between us, no recommendation of an interesting common history or anything, just "You said you were going to have an NPC, so you should have one of my PCs instead!".

The thing is Steve if you'd actually read my post here at the bottom you'd note I'm actually trying to request a different location now, since looking back Klavo never really seemed to want a buffer state even as an NPC. But again it got skipped over.

Alternatively, you can shift further north and have a border between me, Jub, and Beo, in the area I delineated in brown, because I'm not sold on having to have an NPC there if a player wants that land. You'd be on my eastern border, just past the Rockies of this world.

That would actually be Ideal, but I guess I can be the first into South America.

[Jub]

Agent Sorchus do you want to find a way to slide into NA somewhere? I think we can make some room.

[Steve]

TRR, I gave you the western tip of the southeast continent (Simon has started to call it Australis).

The main thing that this means, as of now, is that your nation spent some times in the past looking warily to the northeast and the power of the Omnian Empire, although it's declined as of late. If you want to be bigger I can give you more of the gray around you, although if you don't want an Omnian border we can say that you left that strip in the hands of a buffer state, perhaps a breakaway nationality that successfully rebelled during the time period of the 19th and 20th Centuries when bits and pieces of the Omnian Empire fell off. Investment from San Dorado and worldwide distraction due to the World Wars (which Thanas' people consider the 80 Years War's peak times) kept the Omnians from going the way of the Ottomans.

[The Romulan Republic]

I saw Corona as a pretty small country. Another state between me and Omnia is fine.

Edit: looking at the maps I've downloaded, I'm getting the impression that the sort of olive coloured country is mine and the dark green one above it is Omnia. Is that correct?

[Steve]

Yeah. I wasn't sure how big you wanted to be.

Sorchus: I misinterpreted what you said there as giving up the "nation at the mouth of a major river" concept, not the buffer state dictatorship between me and Klavo.

Anyway, give me an idea where your stuff is on that southern continent, E_F is going to be on the island off the south of it so you'll have him as a neighbor, and the Strait separating it from the northwest Continent is small enough that you would still play a role in our continent's affairs. This isn't SDNW4, after all.

[The Romulan Republic]

Corona's probably larger than what I wrote on page five (21,000 square miles), but I can deal with that. I'll just have to increase my army's size to defend a longer border.

[Steve]

Well, I can shrink it, like I said I didn't know what you'd prefer.

Alternatively, if much of your eastern or southern border is a large mountain range, and beyond it are minor NPCs, that reduces your need for army protection greatly.

Would taking either the north or south bit from the line be sufficient for you?

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm good with leaving Corona as it is or shrinking it.

And I think most of the county will be mountainous if that's okay. Upside: good for defence. Downsides: infrastructure is difficult to build and roads are unreliable in winter.

Edit: I think I'd rather have the southern part if you decide to make Corona smaller. But I kind of like the current situation.

[The Romulan Republic]

Also, who has the big island off my coast? Its not coloured as part of my country, and who controls that will have a very big effect on my history.

[Steve]

If you want it, you can have it. I left it uncolored since I didn't know what you'd want, if it'd clash with your nation concept.

Anyway, since you're okay with your side, I'll leave it. Your nation's topography being mountainous works well with the idea that the Australia Continent will have a central spine of mountains ringed by temperate or tropical rainforest.

[The Romulan Republic]

I guess I'll take the island, though if someone else wants it I'd be happy to discuss it. But I don't want something there that will cause Corona a lot of trouble.

I'm not sure how central mountains would have much to do with Corona. Its pretty small and on the coast. Still, there can be more than one range on a continent.

[Steve]

What I meant is that Corona would take up the western extent of the range in several places, or perhaps a subrange that splits off the main one. BUt if you'd rather have something like, say, the Sierras in California, that's your choice, I'm just making topographical suggestions.

[The Romulan Republic]

Here's what I'm thinking:

There is a mountain range along the coast from the bay on the western coast to the northern coast. And there is a second mountain range running from the southern peninsula along the eastern border until it gets to that big bulge, where it turns inland.

Acceptable?

[Steve]

Sure.

[The Romulan Republic]

I must say, I like how the geography is shaping up. It gives me ideas for my economy and history.