SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread III

[Siege]

The United Solarian Sovereignty would be interested in opening diplomatic relations with the Refuge, if only for the possibility of having another regional ally in case the Karlacks try anything funny. Of course we're not going to believe any of this "the gods are out to get us" hogwash, but that shouldn't stand in the way of a profitable relationship. Plenty of peolpe with bizarre ideas in the galaxy already, after all..

[Darkevilme]

The Hierarchy is going to be interested in opening at least enough diplomatic relations to know who the devil the Refuge are.

[Simon_Jester]

The Imperium's foreign policy goes as follows:

• If you are xenos, there might be possible backdoor dealings via the Inquisition.
• However, if you are downright hostile to us and if you are a xenos in particular, well, there will be a Crusade in due time, depending on whether the funds for such a Crusade can be mustered in due time.
• OR, you decide to irritate the Imperium and grant the Tau any kind of aid, well, you enter the persona non grata list, and we won't give a damn about you. Send us any diplomats, and we will simply either tell you to get lost, or shoot you and send your dismembered bodies taunting you to take action against us.

So, in other words, nonhumans might as well not bother talking to you unless they are literally right next door and don't have a choice about whether to interact with you.

Geppetto's assessment that both the Imperium and the Bragulans are hegemonic states whose mottos both summarize as "NO! Death to our definition of xenos!" seems all the more apt.

Come to think of it, the 'far field' Geppetto core is actually in the right galactic neighborhood to go talk to the Refuge, once he's wrapped up affairs with the Collectors...

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

So, in other words, nonhumans might as well not bother talking to you unless they are literally right next door and don't have a choice about whether to interact with you.

Geppetto's assessment that both the Imperium and the Bragulans are hegemonic states whose mottos both summarize as "NO! Death to our definition of xenos!" seems all the more apt.

Come to think of it, the 'far field' Geppetto core is actually in the right galactic neighborhood to go talk to the Refuge, once he's wrapped up affairs with the Collectors...

The Imperium has had dealings with the Bragulans, if you haven't noticed. Diplomacy is a game of expedience and necessity. Emotions do not come in between, beneath the facade of rhetoric. Rhetoric merely makes the game harder, since everyone wants a face after all that ruckus.

However, if you decide to take our opinion completely as a non-issue, obviously we have nothing to discuss.

[Simon_Jester]

So, in other words, nonhumans might as well not bother talking to you unless they are literally right next door and don't have a choice about whether to interact with you.

Geppetto's assessment that both the Imperium and the Bragulans are hegemonic states whose mottos both summarize as "NO! Death to our definition of xenos!" seems all the more apt.

Come to think of it, the 'far field' Geppetto core is actually in the right galactic neighborhood to go talk to the Refuge, once he's wrapped up affairs with the Collectors...

The Imperium has had dealings with the Bragulans, if you haven't noticed. Diplomacy is a game of expedience and necessity. Emotions do not come in between, beneath the facade of rhetoric. Rhetoric merely makes the game harder, since everyone wants a face after all that ruckus.

However, if you decide to take our opinion completely as a non-issue, obviously we have nothing to discuss.

Passage underlined for emphasis. The Bragulans are right next door to you; they can talk to you or fight you, or some combination of both, but they can't ignore you, can't choose not to interact.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Passage underlined for emphasis. The Bragulans are right next door to you; they can talk to you or fight you, or some combination of both, but they can't ignore you, can't choose not to interact.

Admittedly, true.

On the other hand, it same could be said of the The Refuge not too far from the Karlacks.

[Simon_Jester]

The Refuge probably can't choose not to interact with the Swarm, but they can certainly choose not to feed them diplomats.

Remember what happened the last time you guys sent a high-ranking diplomat into (or, heck, "into the general vicinity of") Karlack space? That didn't end well...

[Siege]

I think the last time the Imperium sent a 'diplomatic mission' into Karlack space was probably when the crew of an Imperial battleship wrote 'DIPLOMATIC MISSION' on a Nova Cannon shell and fired it at a Karlack broodship .

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The Refuge probably can't choose not to interact with the Swarm, but they can certainly choose not to feed them diplomats.

Remember what happened the last time you guys sent a high-ranking diplomat into (or, heck, "into the general vicinity of") Karlack space? That didn't end well...

Sure.

But that was the last time.

[Darkevilme]

You know. I'm not bitching, just noting. But I remember when i wanted dark malevolent extraplanar gods in my backstory they were vetoed.

[Steve]

You know. I'm not bitching, just noting. But I remember when i wanted dark malevolent extraplanar gods in my backstory they were vetoed.

I did remember that when discussing Maya's background, the beings her Refugees consider "Gods" aren't full gods, they're below Q on the power level.

That said, I think you have a marvelous opportunity to connect your background to her's.

[PeZook]

Don't we...already have a malevolent extraplanar god?

We can have hilarity when the Refuge goes "OH NOES THERE ARE THESE CREATURES FROM BEYOND TIME AND SPACE!!!" and we yawn and say "Yeah, we know"

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I certainly don't mind a Chaos Gods analogue just to spice up things...

Of course, this gives me a bigger excuse to build more ships and armies and lead my nation to utter economic ruin (or rather, we declare that Mother Nature is totally subservient to us and go on the business of stripping worlds of mineral resources and leaving them as empty husks).

[Steve]

Q's not exactly malevolent. Not benevolent either, though.

Anyway, when I was vetoing the XylyX and the Outsiders early on it was to keep things from expanding beyond Q in terms of higher power entities. But now that some of our metaplot concepts are dealing with such that provision is being modified. Granted, I'm still not going to have the "XylyX' exist as Hellion envisaged, but malevolent extraplanar entities are acceptable.

[RogueIce]

Q's not exactly malevolent. Not benevolent either, though.

He's either easily bored and finds amusement in the strangest things, or he actually has some kind of Higher Purpose in mind.

Probably a bit of both.

[DarthShady]

Diplomats are considered a delicacy by the Karlack.

So new neighbors? What sectors exactly have the Refuge occupied? Northeast of me, but where exactly? (If it was stated somewhere, I missed it.)

We want to throw them a proper Koprulu Zone welcome.

[RogueIce]

Diplomats are considered a delicacy by the Karlack.

So new neighbors? What sectors exactly have the Refuge occupied? Northeast of me, but where exactly? (If it was stated somewhere, I missed it.)

We want to throw them a proper Koprulu Zone welcome.

Generally taking over what is now labelled as the Outlander Commissions. But not all of the sectors (not sure which ones). But that's the location.

[Simon_Jester]

They're taking up some of the sectors formerly occupied by the defunct Outlander Commissions, which are being retconned as a failed state, I think. So they're not right on your border, Shady.

[Darkevilme]

You know. I'm not bitching, just noting. But I remember when i wanted dark malevolent extraplanar gods in my backstory they were vetoed.

I did remember that when discussing Maya's background, the beings her Refugees consider "Gods" aren't full gods, they're below Q on the power level.

That said, I think you have a marvelous opportunity to connect your background to her's.

If i get inspiration on how to do so I will. Admittedly we're somewhat hampered by the alterations from the original draft 1 backstory, and the fact that the Outsiders in the draft 1 backstory dont match the description of the Refugee's gods.

For those who dont feel like digging it up, the draft 1 backstory:
The Outsiders have existed as long as our universe existed but lived outside of it in the void, the only material in their world that which occasionally bled through from our universe. The outsiders werent even aware there was a universe out there till a human scout ship got sucked into the void, the pilot did not survive the encounter but the Outsiders learned much from dissecting the brain. And suddenly the outsiders knew of a universe with people in it, much more interesting to rule over than one of inert matter. But despite being immortal they recognized the small possibility they could be brought to an end by this universe's inhabitants, so they merged the DNA from the pilot and the pet cat to create the Chamarrans to do the actual conquering and dying, built a gate to the real universe and a warfleet with what matter they could gather from their dark and diffuse void and then sent the kitties to go a stomping. In the original draft the Hierarchy blew up the gate to prevent evil gods from interfering in our space opera, also cause their gods lied to them, that as well.

[DarthShady]

I see. Thanks guys.

The Swarm will be watching them for now...and when I have the time to write a post, we'll go over and say hi in our own special way.

[Simon_Jester]

That is actually... not-incompatible with the Refuge's backstory. Basically, this 'region' (be it a universe or a galaxy) was called to the attention of some malevolent reality warper who decided to create minions to conquer it: the Chamarrans. The Chamarrans subsequently rebelled, destroyed the entity's access point (the attention-calling feature that gave it a reference point with which to interact with this region), and settled down to go bat balls of yarn around or whatever.

Granted, this may have been a rather less competent or capable malevolent entity than the ones the Refuge escaped from, or possibly one that just gets off on allowing the prey a 'sporting' chance, or wasn't particularly hungry to torment victims at the time. But it's still viable.

[PeZook]

If there are more than one, it's...possible they have different ways of "having fun", so to speak.

Heh...maybe Q wants us to kill them

[Mayabird]

Don't we...already have a malevolent extraplanar god?

We can have hilarity when the Refuge goes "OH NOES THERE ARE THESE CREATURES FROM BEYOND TIME AND SPACE!!!" and we yawn and say "Yeah, we know"

*The Refuge discovers the deep, dark secrets of this place that they ended up in, with the Q and Nova Terra/Earth thing and the Outsiders and whatnot*

Panic Node: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITS!


As for the Karlacks, a quick analysis:
1) Estimated low theological threat
2) High physical threat short-term, severe physical threat long term.
3) Secondary highest priority when communicating with local nations: military alliance/pact against Swarm

Yeah, the Outland Commission has been retconned out. They tried to form a nation, then failed, and it got pretty crappy. The map on the wiki has been updated, so thank you, Steve (I think).

[Shroom Man 777]

The Bragulans would not like it if the Karlacks antagonize a potential non-humanoid ally the Bragulans could gain as a bulwark against the rampant humanist imperialism within the nine vectors of space.

[Simon_Jester]

*The Refuge discovers the deep, dark secrets of this place that they ended up in, with the Q and Nova Terra/Earth thing and the Outsiders and whatnot*

Panic Node: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK! SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITS!

Ah, shouldn't that be Swearing Node's job? Panic Node just gets to go "YAY! I WAS RIGHT!"

And yes, the Refuge's AI network does have a sentient node dedicated to swearing. That was the point where I fell in love with the society, so to speak.

Yeah, the Outland Commission has been retconned out. They tried to form a nation, then failed, and it got pretty crappy. The map on the wiki has been updated, so thank you, Steve (I think).

The disconnected sector closest to the Karlacks is linked to the others by Warp Gate, yes?