SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread IX

[K. A. Pital]

Okay, so you're anticipating worldwide embargoes against four Imperiums, a supercharged Tsardom on the verge of being an Imperium, a Kingdom, and a near-Principality (assuming it includes Vineyards)?

Only against the Old Dominion as it is a direct harborer of war crimes. Others can only be accused of complacency; that is not something you can level economic sanctions for.

For a lot of countries, that's something called "economic suicide".

Sanctioning the OD is not suicide for anyone.

You can try and demand CATO signatories impose such

I wouldn't even need to demand anything. CATO will cease all trade with the OD upon learning how deeply they employ Sheppo war criminals. Like I said, no one in sane mind would believe the innocence of a Sheppo SAC or ISI member. That's like employing a former SS man and claiming you have "proof" of his innocence.

The rest of the MESS won't see anything except, of course, badly ruined PR. That would depend on how harshly they will reprimand Lonestar, and their stance on the issue.

See, there are precise grounds for an embargo against Lonestar, and he is singled out because his puppeteering went too far. And the Sheppo at the funeral visit was just overboard. He wants to have fun? We'll give him that and some more to boot.

Moreover, it's not good politics if you can't find ONE fucking world leader who is suspicious of Shep but still does nothing in the name of "good relations". That's like saying among dozens of people knowing or heavily suspecting Hitler Reborn in the OD will do nothing.

Why do nothing? Fear of the OD? Don't be ridiculous. Fear of the MESS? If they go over to war or assassinations because of these revelations, it's clear that the accusations were spot on. There's nothing to fear except the OD's image and economy further ruin, which many will find pleasure in.

I'll have a good, hard party in Frequesue with Sidney Hank, Ryan Thunder and Duke James Baerne after completing the public revelations. I'm sure they will be most pleased. No one stood up for them when they were pushed around by the MESS; except the CATO, and you all know it was written off as "CATO sour grapes lol, tensions, both parties are guilty blah blah blah".

But punishment always finds a mark, one way or the other. You will see that this is hardly all for nothing. Stanislav's political goals go further.

[Steve]

You seem to be assuming that people will believe Stanislav and proof that he's wrong won't work. The DNA tests, given his condition, will "exonerate" Rhee Anh. As for Shepistani SAC officers, they apparently weren't part of the bioattack ergo the case of them being war criminals is slim.

Now, I think you're saying that to the popular mind these distinctions won't matter, especially with UCSR propaganda efforts and bribery to get other news outlets to add to the din. Thing is, as Beo has nicely pointed out in a post, such bribery efforts themselves may get revealed. As a result you instead have a case where the world sees former UCSR President Stanislav employing wild accusations and bribery in an attempt to slander a MESS state, making it look like Stanislav is trying to poison efforts at a CATO-MESS detente.

Especially since, y'know, you can't prove Rhee Anh is actually Shep. Even with Heraclius' testimony you can only prove that the OD probably, at one point, had Shep as a prisoner in a bunker. Rhee Anh could be Shep or, more likely (especially when DNA tests seem to prove he's not), Shep was found alive, kept secure in an attempt to get secrets from him, and then died due to whatever plagues he'd contracted.

And of course if the OD counters by revealing the proof of the CSR launching bioattacks on Shepland, as in those nice missile remains, the deaths of millions of innocent Shepistanis, Dominion citizens, Kitteridgans (or whatever you call people from St. Kitteredge or that "Maine" part) and East Shepistanis are now shown as being the fault of ex-President Stanislav, and he gets to join the possibly-late Mark Sheppard in the ranks of the young 21st Century's greatest butchers. I suspect that would have an adverse effect upon your avatar's world travels.

Not, of course, that UCSR or even CATO news would believe it, but it would muddy the waters quite a bit. Of course, the fact that it wasn't revealed before may hurt the OD, but that would primarily be internally by anti-CATO factions who would, understandably, have better targets for the moment.

[K. A. Pital]

1) Some people will believe Stanislav, especially after I accomplish Phase 3 with Heraclius' help, and Phase 4 where handpicked paid Sheppo "witnesses" will say what I tell them to say. I wouldn't say it's arrogant to say many, if not most nations in Frequesue will believe me, and not just CATO allies but unaligned members like Inhopal. The IRT might believe me as well.

2) Shepistani SAC and ISI officers will not even be considered innocent by anyone, and Lonestar's claims that Sheppo military servicemen who didn't directly participat in bioattacks weren't party to the biowar are ridiculous and preposterous. It would hardly even be considered seriously after the revelation I am running through now.

3) Bribery itself may be revealed, but so? There's so many concerned individuals that lobbying for the destruction of Sheppo criminals in the OD would be NOT just the Crimson business. And I'll make it sure that the funds go through IRT banks. Which, I believe, have good habits of concealing their customers..

4) Wilkens threat of revealing that Shep was spared from trial was precise enough to make it sure the OD's image is tarred forever.

5) Missile remains are nothing. Stanislav will claim, with documents in hands, that those were sold to Shepistan along with Su-34s. In the chaos iof ensuing desertion, Sheppo deserters might have used them. Anyone who would believe that the remains of a Crimson-designed missile would prove anything is just a deluded fool, and the "Lord" Fairfax will show himself as such if he tries that "revelation".

6) Shepistan started the biowar. As the initial agressor, we can clearly shape the public opinion for any revelations we need; that fundamental fact will not be changed. Shepistan attacked first. Astaria second. Then Shep attacked the CSR; which can be said of being grounds for an attack if there's any way to undisputably prove the missiles were not just crimson but CSR launched; which is BULLSHIT.

7) President Stanislav doesn't have the image of Hitler. Shep has. That's the huge difference, not to mention that Shep actually attacked the CSR so the point of CSR "genociding" Shepistanis is moot at all

So we have the following accusations against the OD:
1) Shep being alive
2) Sheppo war criminals in service

And the following accusations against me:
1) Launching a cruise missile attack against Shepistan after it attacked Astaria and the CSR... um... yeah.

Try proving that the CSR did the attack before Sheppo launched his ICBMs not just against the CSR, but against the entire Old Continent.

Seriously, trying to equate me with Shep will be the last PR failure of the MESS. I will annihilate them politically. And their accusations coming exactly straight after my revelations will only show that they are desperate to cling to something to tar my image, "shooting the messenger". Having the second shot in a PR war is always... bad.

[K. A. Pital]

Wait, wait, WAIT!!!... It's even BETTER than I thought.

Lonestar didn't just actively conceal war criminals IC.

Name one instance of the Shepistani SAC committing war crimes. Bear in mind that cargo aircraft were used for the release of agents, not ling range bombers

He lowered himself to OOC lying to cover up Sheppo crimes truly, the game is having a heavy toll on the senile "Lord" Fairfax

40,000 feet over Astaria
...
The Shepistani JB-89 White Chrysmantheums cruised high above the Astarian continent; they had been loaded with alternate biological agents after the half-assed Astarian attack on Shepistan; and were sent out to finish the job that the SSANs had begun.

Below them, the landscape of Astaria stretched below -- on their RWR scopes, it was a black hole, with only a few intermittent fire control radars operating; two weeks of contagion had done a good job of collapsing their air defense network.

As the planes reached their target points, from each one, a mixture of 250 kilogram biological agent spreader bombs, and 250 kilogram vacuum bombs began to rain down onto the largest concentrations of Astarian survivors far below. These were loaded with alternate agents; such as Boutilinism, Cholera, Rabbit Fever, Q Fever, Rocky Mountain Fever, Equine Encephalomyelitis, Yellow Fever, and Psittacosis.

To add insult to injury, several KC-22s roared in at treetop level, spraying anthrax spores from the huge spreader tanks in their bellies; and no human being aboard; for they were piloted entirely by drone computers linked to the JB-89s.

GOD... Lonestar... oh Lonestar... Now you will know that it's bad. Nothing will save your nation's face.

As for "figuring out" the details of the Crimson attack on Shepistan:

2000 km off Shepistani coastline. CSR fleet of supersonic bombers

- Launch the Kh-101s!

- First wave, done!

In about an hour, the second wave was launched.

Result: the CSR's planes launch several dozen slow stealth cruise missiles in waves, which will spread biodeath over the course of many kilometers over Shepistan, flying at low altitudes, and impact Shepistani cities.

These were air-launched cruise missiles, not ship launched. The MESS intelligence apparently thought it was a naval launch. Wrong.

Also,

"So we don't know who did it?"

"Sir, we have our suspicions, but since a large amount of technology exported widely by both Japanistan and the CSR around the world are common analogues with each other; we can't exactly pin down who did it."

Japanistan seems to have had Kh-101 analogues, so Shep could not pin down who did it. I doubt considering Japanistan's closeness, the Old Dominion could do anything here. So like I said, try to pin those missiles on me. I have a dozen ways out.

In true "Share the Wealth" fashion, virtually everyone who was someone had at least one missile targeted on them; but certain non-entities, such as Vulpesia, Cialan, Khitan, the USSR, etc had special attention paid to them. For that was the fiendish plan of the Shepistani planners. Why splatter your weaponry against the shields of a strong nation when you could infect a nearby country and watch the pandemic spread from there?

Trying to equate my actions with Shep's will be met by universal condemnation. In fact, I can claim that the cruise missile attack was made by Japanistan in retaliation for the Sheppos going apeshit.

- Considering the number of nations to deal with, the insane attack by Shepistan could not dedicate more than 20 missiles to our continent. The Japanistanis successfully downed whatever this moron sent at them; they excelled at ABM defenses.

Shep never denied attacking everyone around, so.

And before you all get on a moralistic horse saying that I "manufactured" this incident all of a sudden, remember this:

UCSR, Vladimir
Upon his return from the Duchy of Baerne, former President Stanislav went to meet the person who tried to contact him. He only approved of a personal meeting and inside the UCSR borders. He didn't want to take any chances that the subjects of this talk would surface anywhere and at any time.

Stanislav slowly looked at Alexey. It was a long while ago when he last met the man, who now probably had more diversions and murders than half of the PCIA special operatives combined.

- You're positively sure?

- These records indicate that the ultimate fate of Al-Sheppard remains unknown. Until the very end of Shepistan itself, he seemed to survive. And after that, everything is concealed by the Old Dominion. It is unsettling, to say the least. If the war criminal is alive, comrade...

- He may be, but we shouldn't rush to judgement. But in case he is... - the former President clenched teeth. - The Old Dominion will have some explaining to do. A lot of it actually.

- To be fair, sooner or later someone will get him, - the rogue agent took a smoke. - I don't know who. Me? Maybe, who knows. Someone else? Maybe, there's just so many people who have issues with Shepistan.

- All the knowledge you gathered should be kept in reserve and limited. If even some of these rumors are true, and the Old Dominion really has that criminal alive, it might play into our game, - Stanislav's smile was sinister. - There's nothing that can ruin your image as covering war criminals. It becomes the lot of pariah states... and if one of them is in the MESS, that won't do any wonders to it's image.

- Anything else, comrade?

- I shall issue a formal letter to the President, recommending the award of the Hero of the Union for you, Alexey, for the operation in Svalbardia, considering also your earlier missions which were executed without fail, as well as promotion to the rank of colonel, - Stanislav gave the agent a slight nod. - Just don't lose it, comrade, you swore allegiance to the crimson banner, remember it. Don't let your personal vendettas take over your main priorities.

This was a long game plot, I had one of my best agents walking around infiltrating Sheppo rings, slaughtering war criminals and finding out rumors which may not have been rumors at all. This was planned, and the time when Shep is officially installed and even dares to visit a funeral of Shroom is the perfect time.

[CmdrWilkens]

So general notes from the Wilkonia end:

- Sure the intelligence guys know about it and by intelligence guys I mean less than a dozen individuals all of whom are long service agents loyal to the crown

- My alter ego doesn't like it, I didn't like it when Shep was spared and I don't like it now but that doesn't change dealing with it. My alter ego knows that Stanislav killed twice as many including some Wilkonians in the mix so its a case of having to chose between Mao or Stalin and we are taking the devil we already know.

- Any PR campaign predicated upon mass public response...well it simply is going to stir up the now hardening MESS-CATO bitterness. Yes I think that large portions in most CATO nations believe Stanislav (and yet probably 60%+ don't care ) and I think a large portion in the MESS think he is senile (and probably 60%+ don't even follow the news enough to think so). The vast majority of any populace, even a well educated one, is far more concerned with domestic tranquility the prospect of a job and the health of their family than big issues of state. For those things national pride will dictate little change in the overall makeup of things. Some MESS populations will feel betrayed and protest some CATO populaitons will see this as excessively outrageous and protest but neither will be more than a quantifiable minority.

Moreover the more money you pump in to making this a concerted PR campaign the more likely it becomes known that this is a concerted PR campaign. You can move the money however you wish but sooner or later somebody is gonna stumble upon it.

[Siege]

I frankly think it's absurd to say that only 'quantifiable minorities' will be upset about the posisbility that Sheppard is still alive and in might in fact once again be in a position of power. It's as if the Allies kept Hitler alive and then installed him as the leader of Austria a handful of years after World War 2 -- if the world found out, the outrage wouldn't be limited, it would be epic.

Remember that this is the man responsible for the Shepistan-MESS war; who killed damn near every single person in all of Astaria; who in fact tried to kill the entire goddamn world. Considering the casualties Al-Sheppard inflicted on the MESS during the war, the possibility that a MESS member is keeping this man alive and in fact in power should be more than enough to cause quite a bit more than minor protests in other MESS nations. Maybe not directly after the claims have been made, but certainly as soon as Stanislav produces some convincing enough evidence. People shrugging off the possibility that a known mass-murderer and war criminal is being aided and abetted by the MESS is simply completely unbelievable.

[Ryan Thunder]

1) Some people will believe Stanislav, especially after I accomplish Phase 3 with Heraclius' help, and Phase 4 where handpicked paid Sheppo "witnesses" will say what I tell them to say. I wouldn't say it's arrogant to say many, if not most nations in Frequesue will believe me, and not just CATO allies but unaligned members like Inhopal. The IRT might believe me as well.

Ryan already has a rather strong distrust for the OD, so yeah, he'd believe it, and so would the Miratians, for the most part, since they're well aware that the OD are being ginormous shitbirds in the Impact Crater.

4) Wilkens threat of revealing that Shep was spared from trial was precise enough to make it sure the OD's image is tarred forever.

Fairfax, anyway. Let's not get carried away.

Seriously, trying to equate me with Shep will be the last PR failure of the MESS. I will annihilate them politically. And their accusations coming exactly straight after my revelations will only show that they are desperate to cling to something to tar my image, "shooting the messenger". Having the second shot in a PR war is always... bad.

Dunno about the entire MESS, Stas. That's a bit much. They do represent a significant chunk of the world population, after all.

[Lonestar]

He lowered himself to OOC lying to cover up Sheppo crimes truly, the game is having a heavy toll on the senile "Lord" Fairfax

Or, alternatively, I don't have the free time that you apperently have to slog through the game Threads so I was repeating what was recalled in the AIM chat myself, beowulf, Phong, Shep, and Steve were in last night.

[Steve]

Thing is, between the fact that some media outlets can make hay of UCSR "financial incentives" for this story and the ability of MESS, through impartial observers, to clear "Rhee Anh" of the charge through DNA testing, the outrage from MESS populations and even non-CATO ones will subside... with the side effect of bitterness drifting in the other direction since it turns the entire thing into a UCSR propaganda plot that has damaged, even destroyed, the CATO-MESS detente process.

Oh, sure, you can get surviving Shepistanis to make claims. But everyone knows men can be bought. Once some impartial group does testing and can say without a doubt that genetically "Rhee Anh Sheppard can't be General Sheppard" (or even better, multiple groups of recognized impartiality) you can have as many abducted or paid off Shepistanis saying what you will, the only thing it does is convince non-CATO (and perhaps some non-UCSR) outlets that it's nothing more than a propaganda campaign against MESS. And Stanislav goes from an honored world statesman into a hardliner who's locked the world into a bitter "Cold War".

So I expect a lot of sturm und drang right now for MESS, with domestic populations screaming bloody murder, while CATO and non-CATO populations demand an investigation or simply the outright hand-over of Rhee Anh to an international tribunal, until impartial groups publish the DNA findings.


Not that the Old Dominion hasn't likely already suffered from the fact they've employed ex-Shepistani officers, since those predisposed to disliking them probably won't accept any assurances of "vetting" their new personnel to screen out war criminals. CATO press can screech about it, MESS press can say it was necessary to promote Shepistani integration into the Old Dominion, and the entire issue becomes a festering sore on CATO-MESS relations. Possibly some cases where down the road CATO sources with the support of liberals and radicals in the Dominion occasionally try to out them as war criminals or simply too close to the old regime for comfort (As was done to West German politicians in the 1960s).


Oh, and really, without the proof you've yet to present the reaction from some of the MESS media isn't exactly going to be seen as a desperate attempt at covering it up - remember that those media sources aren't government in almost all cases anyway, so they're hardly actual government responses to the accusation - but rather a natural reaction to an outrageous, frankly unbelievable accusation that without direct proof will be taken as a wild anti-MESS proclamation by any source that, heh, doesn't already have bones to pick against the Old Dominion.

[K. A. Pital]

Yes I think that large portions in most CATO nations believe Stanislav (and yet probably 60%+ don't care )

You mean Sheppard's missiles didn't rain on the Old Continent 10 years ago? Man, "don't care"? You're grasping at straws...

Some MESS populations will feel betrayed and protest some CATO populaitons will see this as excessively outrageous and protest but neither will be more than a quantifiable minority.

"The guy who ballistic missiled bioweapons to just about every nation in the world trying to kill as many people as possible is installed in power by the MESS"
90% of the population that was to be killed: "Sure, we don't care"

Fairfax, anyway. Let's not get carried away.

Well, yes. The Fairfax government. The OD itself will suffer significantly, but the next government is not the same as the old one, so.

So I expect a lot of sturm und drang right now for MESS, with domestic populations screaming bloody murder, while CATO and non-CATO populations demand an investigation or simply the outright hand-over of Rhee Anh to an international tribunal, until impartial groups publish the DNA findings.

So what of their "DNA" findings? They would not permit anyone to get into the close Shep circle because Shep requires "maintenance" like an expensive killbot. And "impartiality"? How about Shepistani SAC and ISI members in OD?

Not that the Old Dominion hasn't likely already suffered from the fact they've employed ex-Shepistani officers, since those predisposed to disliking them probably won't accept any assurances of "vetting" their new personnel to screen out war criminals.

The Old Dominion HAS NOT SUFFERED. Not ONE BIT. It has been miltarized, assisted by hte MESS. THe MESS remilitarizes Sirnoth with Shep in charge, knowing it.

We'll make it suffer. And it's the SAC B-89 pilots who sprayed biodeath. Kinda hard to "screen" a criminal organization for criminals...

Oh, and really, without the proof you've yet to present the reaction from some of the MESS media isn't exactly going to be seen as a desperate attempt at covering it up

Like I said, the campaign is only beginning. With the evidence of my allies and people who have legitimate and other grievances against the Old Dominion, we will see to it's image being ruined.

[Siege]

Is anyone seriously suggesting the UCSR would've just come out and attempted to pay off newspapers etc. directly when they weren't sure what their reaction would be? I thought it was obvious they'd be more circumspect and plausibly deniable about it.

Besides, I find DNA testing an implausible cop-out. Not only would the test be administered by the very people who've every reason to falsify the results, you also conveniently would have to have some of Al-Sheppard's DNA on file. I don't think he ever left his country and as I recall his body was never found, so where'd you get that DNA?

Oh and of course, if the test is administered by a truly impartial entity, there's a fair chance they'll find HERV in his bloodstream -- which has known mutagenic properties. And conveniently the Old Dominion is heavily invested in its research. What's the world to think of that?

Furthermore, who cares if the world finds out it's a UCSR propaganda campaign? It can be both propaganda and true. Anyone who thinks the Cold War hasn't been raging for years by now either hasn't been paying attention, or is hopelessly idealistic and naive.

EDIT: Yeah, screening Shepistani SAC for war criminals is a bit like screening the SS. The whole organization is implicated in genocide; anyone associated with it would be automatically suspect. What are you going to do, accept "wir haben es nicht gewusst" as an excuse?

[K. A. Pital]

Is anyone seriously suggesting the UCSR would've just come out and attempted to pay off newspapers etc. directly when they weren't sure what their reaction would be? I thought it was obvious they'd be more circumspect and plausibly deniable about it.

Like I said, the bribes would go through IRT banks, and only to those who are willing to take them.

...you also conveniently would have to have some of Al-Sheppard's DNA on file. I don't think he ever left his country and as I recall his body was never found, so where'd you get that DNA?

Yes, exactly. The only source of that "DNA" would be the Old Dominion, if it managed to find Shep... and how would they prove to anyone this is the "correct" DNA? They will not prove anything.

Oh and of course, if the test is administered by a truly impartial entity, there's a fair chance they'll find HERV in his bloodstream -- which has known mutagenic properties. And conveniently the Old Dominion is heavily invested in its research. What's the world to think of that?

Damn... Let's push for that test.

My alter ego knows that Stanislav killed twice as many

You can only suspect, but not "know" it - even Shep didn't know for sure, and Japanistan had Tu-160 and Kh-101 apparently, so... Meanwhile you KNOW Shep is there.

[Lonestar]

Is anyone seriously suggesting the UCSR would've just come out and attempted to pay off newspapers etc. directly when they weren't sure what their reaction would be? I thought it was obvious they'd be more circumspect and plausibly deniable about it.

Why not? Stas's stated goal is for a PR campaign, and OOC he just wants to create a "Truther" movement.

Besides, I find DNA testing an implausible cop-out. Not only would the test be administered by the very people who've every reason to falsify the results, you also conveniently would have to have some of Al-Sheppard's DNA on file. I don't think he ever left his country and as I recall his body was never found, so where'd you get that DNA?

Oh and of course, if the test is administered by a truly impartial entity, there's a fair chance they'll find HERV in his bloodstream -- which has known mutagenic properties. And conveniently the Old Dominion is heavily invested in its research. What's the world to think of that?

Obviously, any DNA testing would have to be done with a third party, say, Cascadia. Secondly, we'd just stretch out the length of times between Shep's happy shots, to the point that any blood drawn will likely show dormant Shroombola viruses, which is normally kept in remission by the HERV. Thirdly, there is no way in Hell that the "Truthers" would know about the HERV, or the transient nature of the strain Shep has been infected with, because by Stas's own admission(when confronted with accusations of using OOC information IC) "We uh just threw it in there".

This is an awesome precedent, by the way, because from here on out I'm going to be able to do stuff IC with OOC knowledge and claim that it's just coincidental.

[K. A. Pital]

Why not?

Because the IRT banks would make my bribes.. more confidential? I mean, why pay the MESS press in Union roubles? Who do you think I am, a three year old?

Secondly, we'd just stretch out the length of times between Shep's happy shots, to the point that any blood drawn will likely show dormant Shroombola viruses, which is normally kept in remission by the HERV.

So what? A truly impartial scientific examination of Shep's blood will discover HERV. The moment you give his blood away you're fucked.

...the "Truthers" would know about the HERV, or the transient nature of the strain Shep has been infected with, because by Stas's own admission(when confronted with accusations of using OOC information IC) "We uh just threw it in there".

The Truthers would not, but once you give to the Cascadian biology institute, they'll find the HERV and they'll be fucking hard pressed to keep silent. And if you bribe them you defeated the whole point... bingo.

Also, what's Shep's "correct DNA"? There is no body. Where will you get it from? Why would anyone believe you at all?

The information that SHep's DNA mutated doesn't save you. Because no one knows "Sheps' DNA"

[Steve]

Oh, admittedly I wasn't sure about the DNA angle and whether there might be a source of Shep's DNA to find, but if there is one that can be confirmed and isn't reliant on the OD then there are impartial organizations that can swab "Rhee Anh"'s mouth to get genetic material to test DNA.

Unless, of course, Tonkin and the Pacific Union are closet MESS allies.

And frankly, while you are absolutely right that you could be expected to only go to outlets that could be trusted to quietly accept the bribes, that basically limits you to leftist groups and CATO nation news outlets, only a fraction of the world's media and those who can be expected to already favor the harshest line concerning the OD. The rest of the global media will pick up on it but are more likely to be skeptical and willing to accept counters to the CATO talking points. Especially if your "proof", in the end, is nothing but ex-Shepistani officials making claims.

Ultimately without proof this entire thing becomes more of a litmus test for determining someone's loyalties in the Cold War. If you believe it's the truth then you're obviously a CATO advocate. If you think Stanislav is lying or mistaken you're likely a MESS advocate (or an anti-Communist, though these two positions are probably becoming intertwined). If you're in the middle you're probably not sure what to believe and will thus likely not speak on the issue.


Oh, and Stanislav? We don't need to draw blood to take DNA. You use mouth swabbing for that.

[K. A. Pital]

Oh, admittedly I wasn't sure about the DNA angle and whether there might be a source of Shep's DNA to find, but if there is one that can be confirmed and isn't reliant on the OD then there are impartial organizations that can swab "Rhee Anh"'s mouth to get genetic material to test DNA.

That is very unlikely. Lonestar took over the entire Sheppo zone. There is nothing that can be confirmed "impartially" as Shep's DNA and there's also no body. Because Shep is alive. There are also dead siblings, so anything Lonestar would claim as "Shep's body" or "Shep's DNA" can be easily brushed off. In fact, him providing the DNA for "proof" is impossible.

Unless Shep willingly donated his DNA for conservation to third party states. Which is bullshit.

And frankly, while you are absolutely right that you could be expected to only go to outlets that could be trusted to quietly accept the bribes, that basically limits you to leftist groups and CATO nation news outlets, only a fraction of the world's media and those who can be expected to already favor the harshest line concerning the OD.

My talk itself surely was translated by ALL media outlets, and if not by all, then by most. I specifically made the speech on the opening of World Congress. And when Heraclius speaks for Byzantine News it will be everywhere... we would no longer have to PAY anyone to ever re-translate that story. It will be a shitstorm of truly epic proportions.

Especially if your "proof", in the end, is nothing but ex-Shepistani officials making claims.

We'll see how they will sing when the triple-whammie of my Congressial bomb, Heraclius' revelation and ex-Shepistani witness panel hits the waves.

[Lonestar]

Because the IRT banks would make my bribes.. more confidential? I mean, why pay the MESS press in Union roubles? Who do you think I am, a three year old?

Yup. Or, judging by your slogging through of the Story threads, an uemployed graphics artist.

So what? A truly impartial scientific examination of Shep's blood will discover HERV. The moment you give his blood away you're fucked.

Nope. Go back and read the original statement by Blitzschlag. The HERV Pathogen strain is mostly gone from his system by the time he gets his weekly shot. Stretch that out a few more days and it wouldn't be discoverable from a blood test(jabbing him with some kind of HERV vaccine and seeing his immune system reaction, however, is a different story).

The Truthers would not, but once you give to the Cascadian biology institute, they'll find the HERV and they'll be fucking hard pressed to keep silent. And if you bribe them you defeated the whole point... bingo.

Nope, they sure wouldn't. The stuff he's injected with is designed to be out of his system within 10 days. Specifically so that he DOES need regular injections to keep the Shroombola in remission.

Also, what's Shep's "correct DNA"? There is no body. Where will you get it from? Why would anyone believe you at all?

The information that SHep's DNA mutated doesn't save you. Because no one knows "Sheps' DNA"

Ah, so we're right back to where we started at:

Stas has no fucking evidence that Sheppard is Al Sheppard. It's all a bunch of hearsay and speculation. Of course, he could try to produce "witnesses", but fuck, I can produce a former President of the United States who had a UFO expierience. That doesn't mean anything. He could expect Heraclius to volunbteer up some information about it, of course then Heraclius is put in the position of taking part in the cover up, and in any event it'll become a "he said vs. He said" deal, with someone who is really antagonistic towards the MESS supporting Stanislav's wild claims.

Finally(since you brought it up), you could find some "Wilkonian Intel Documents(assuming they exist, or exist where your agents can get them)" but (1)Documents can be forged (2)Even if they aren't forged, they are easy to dismiss as Forged and (3)Now Wilkonian Counterintelligence has a lead on potential Crimson agents within the Wilkonian IC. I'm sure your own Intel people are going to like burning their agents like that.

[K. A. Pital]

Or, judging by your slogging through of the Story threads, an uemployed graphics artist.

I'm on vacation. Also, I never slog through anything, I use the search function.

The HERV Pathogen strain is mostly gone from his system by the time he gets his weekly shot. Stretch that out a few more days and it wouldn't be discoverable from a blood test(jabbing him with some kind of HERV vaccine and seeing his immune system reaction, however, is a different story).

Whatever. HERV is not found, but so? What will his DNA prove? Nothing. So it's mutated. Where's the original? Where's Shep's body?

Of course, he could try to produce "witnesses", but fuck, I can produce a former President of the United States who had a UFO expierience.

Yeah, except my witness will be a head of state unlike your BOGEY.

...of course then Heraclius is put in the position of taking part in the cover up, and in any event it'll become a "he said vs. He said" deal, with someone who is really antagonistic towards the MESS supporting Stanislav's wild claims.

"Wild claims" will not look so wild after that.

Finally(since you brought it up), you could find some "Wilkonian Intel Documents(assuming they exist, or exist where your agents can get them)"

Frankly, I think Heraclius' statements will be enough. "He said versus I said"? You will have nothing to counter that with. You'll have no proof of anything.

Of course your MESS allies will probably stay loyal until the end and claim it's all bullshit, so be it. I doubt other nations in the world will be of the same opinion.

[RogueIce]

Fin, what documentation? Because it wasn't anything from that meeting, I can promise you. There were no transcripts or audio recordings or anything of that sort for the meeting itself. I can tell you this since it was held in Miami. In my nation. My conference hall. So what do you have in this documentation?

[K. A. Pital]

So what do you have in this documentation?

Naturally, his post-facto recollections and descriptions of the meeting that were recorded by his intelligence. I doubt he'd do otherwise when such important facts were revealed. Kinda like the pictures from press-closed trials.

If he had spies in Wilkonia, he might have something else as well, but that is his intel. Not mine.

[Raj Ahten]

Seigetank, since we've seemed to have agreed about all the major points of the highway project I figure I'll just announce it in the game thread to try and get other nations involved. For the irrigation projects lets have the scientists publish some feasibility studies and so forth and go from there.

I suppose the meeting of heads of state and former head of state broke up amicably after some more planning and so forth?

[DarthShady]

This is...interesting.

Guys, face it - Stas won this propaganda war, before it even got started. All you can do now is dig your graves even deeper. Which is fine by me. I'm laughing my ass off at your reactions.

[Lonestar]

This is...interesting.

Guys, face it - Stas won this propaganda war, before it even got started. All you can do now is dig your graves even deeper. Which is fine by me. I'm laughing my ass off at your reactions.

How'd he "win" it? He gave a speech, made a wild-ass accusation without evidence to back claim, then got a gentleman who was bitter and pissed off at the MESS to corroborate his claim(also with no evidence).




I think for my next in-story post I'm going to have that '87 speech of Reagan talking about aliens visiting Earth YouTubed in to make a point.

[K. A. Pital]

I think for my next in-story post I'm going to have that '87 speech of Reagan talking about aliens visiting Earth YouTubed in to make a point

"Operation: Uncover" has brought welcome results, and actually opened the eyes of not a few world leaders. Trying to paint us as "lunatics" after Fingolfin relayed the post-facto recollections of the MESS internal talks will be much, much harder.

[Steve]

I think for my next in-story post I'm going to have that '87 speech of Reagan talking about aliens visiting Earth YouTubed in to make a point

"Operation: Uncover" has brought welcome results, and actually opened the eyes of not a few world leaders. Trying to paint us as "lunatics" after Fingolfin relayed the post-facto recollections of the MESS internal talks will be much, much harder.

I think the point's been made that Heraclius has every reason in the world to go along with a vicious attack on the MESS given how his relationship with them ended up.

You'll need more than Heraclius making claims and showing documents to make this stick. Your plan to try and find Shepistani exiles who will claim they saw Shep alive after the Pathogen War, or that the Old Dominion took him into custody, etc, is more key to making it believable.

In the end, all you've done is ensure the CATO-MESS split becomes permanent and the two alliances remain utterly hostile toward one another. A Cold War that may have lasted a decade until passions eased will become a permanent fact until one alliance or the other falters.

Or, well, until a standoff causes someone to hit the doomsday button.