SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread

[Ryan Thunder]

the armor scheme is still a bit ridiculous and to boot, your ship is about 5000 tons over the limit.

Care to elaborate?

Also;

54 647 t standard;

is not over the limit.

[Steve]

Yes it is. I would tolerate maybe 50,500-51,000 standard tonnage if laid in 1923-1924. But 1920? Get it below 50,000. My version, in fact, is below 50,000.

[Ryan Thunder]

Yes it is. I would tolerate maybe 50,500-51,000 standard tonnage if laid in 1923-1924. But 1920? Get it below 50,000. My version, in fact, is below 50,000.

Oh, FFS. I was thinking of the slipway size limit. My bad.

[Raesene]

my comments

Displacement:
48 141 t light; 54 647 t standard; 59 006 t normal; 62 493 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(656.17 ft / 656.17 ft) x 114.83 ft (Bulges 131.23 ft) x (32.81 / 34.72 ft)
(200.00 m / 200.00 m) x 35.00 m (Bulges 40.00 m) x (10.00 / 10.58 m)

Armament:
9 - 17.72" / 450 mm 42.0 cal guns - 2 696.17lbs / 1 222.96kg shells, 250 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 7.87" / 200 mm 45.0 cal guns - 246.18lbs / 111.67kg shells, 500 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
60 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 17.11lbs / 7.76kg shells, 1 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
30 x Single mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
10 x Single mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
60 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
40 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 30 232 lbs / 13 713 kg

reduce the number of shells; about 100 is fine for the main battery, 150-200 ok for secondary and heavy AA, about 2000 for light AA. Additionally, use a smaller gun than 8''/20cm for secondaries - these shells are the smallest that must be loaded with the aid of machines, reducing their firing speed. In this age, secondaries are used against fast moving targets like destroyers and torpedo boats, so you need these guns firing (and tracking) quickly. Sizes between 12cm and 15 cm (5''-6'') were popular for a reason. The Royal Navy considered eight8 of these guns per side the optimum, but accepted six if necessary.


Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 229.63 ft / 69.99 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Upper: 13.8" / 350 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
9.84" / 250 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 98.43 ft / 30.00 m

A torpedo bulkhead 25cm thick is overdone; usually they were thinner than 5 cm/2''.

- Hull Bulges:
9.84" / 250 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m

bulges only 25 cm deep will get you nothing, they are there to let the explosion of a torpedo warhead dissipate before it reaches the main hull. With a torpedo bulkhead, you might skip it, or deepen it to at least 2m.

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 17.7" / 450 mm 17.7" / 450 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 1.97" / 50 mm

You can reduce the other gun house armour (i.e., sides and roof) by half at least.

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.89" / 175 mm
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 5.91" / 150 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 46 212 shp / 34 474 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7 846 tons

range is very small and your economic (for range) speed close to your max speed. IIRC, the economic speed is usually between half or 2/3rd of the max speed.

Complement:
1 892 - 2 460

Cost:
£10.764 million / $43.057 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 901 tons, 8.3 %
- Guns: 4 901 tons, 8.3 %
Armour: 28 621 tons, 48.5 %
- Belts: 6 420 tons, 10.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 5 096 tons, 8.6 %
- Bulges: 3 920 tons, 6.6 %
- Armament: 5 736 tons, 9.7 %
- Armour Deck: 7 063 tons, 12.0 %
- Conning Towers: 386 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1 616 tons, 2.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13 003 tons, 22.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 10 865 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
99 155 lbs / 44 976 Kg = 35.7 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 26.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.44
Metacentric height 11.6 ft / 3.5 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.731 / 0.732
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.04 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 28.18 ft / 8.59 m, 23.06 ft / 7.03 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 23.06 ft / 7.03 m, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m, 17.95 ft / 5.47 m
- Average freeboard: 20.15 ft / 6.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.7 %
Waterplane Area: 63 741 Square feet or 5 922 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 234 lbs/sq ft or 1 144 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.48
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily[/size][/quote][/quote]

The reduction of shell numbers and torpedo bulkhead will reduce the displacement. Looking at the excellent for all spaces, you could increase the maximum speed to perhaps 25 kts and see what happens. Natural speed is 28 kts for your design, so it should be able to do better than 20 kts.
A hull strength (overall) better than 1.00 is good for a battleship, hits decrease this number, and if it's too low, you constructed a submarine (although unintentionally and therefore unusable anymore).

[CmdrWilkens]

the armor scheme is still a bit ridiculous and to boot, your ship is about 5000 tons over the limit.

Also the speed is 20kn with a cruise speed of 18, that seems patently ridiculous.

[Ryan Thunder]

How about 22/18?

EDIT: I was gonna say the thing calls bullshit, but then it didn't when I tried to say the cruise speed was 18 kn while the max speed was 15, so... XD

[Steve]

If you want a cruise speed of 18 you should probably go for a max speed of 27 or higher. And then you'd have a battlecruiser or fast battleship.

[Ryan Thunder]

Well, it is supposed to be a battlecruiser, anyway.

But 27 knots? Shit. Well... let's see... I can manage 25/17 by reducing the range to 9000 nm and reducing the number of guns from the second battery to 12, in addition to Raesene's advice.

[Steve]

Lighter guns would help.

[Steve]

Adapting my 1925 fast battleship to the proper tonnage limit, using 9 16"/50 guns instead of the 450mm/45s you had:

And some tonnage can be shaved off or a bit more armor added, thanks to the 1.02 composite strength.

Defiant-Colombia, Colombia Fast Battleship laid down 1920

Displacement:
47,123 t light; 49,996 t standard; 54,034 t normal; 57,264 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(870.47 ft / 860.00 ft) x 112.00 ft x (32.40 / 34.00 ft)
(265.32 m / 262.13 m) x 34.14 m x (9.88 / 10.36 m)

Armament:
9 - 16.00" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,168.09lbs / 983.43kg shells, 125 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.00" / 127 mm 43.0 cal guns - 61.05lbs / 27.69kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.87lbs / 0.85kg shells, 5,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
4 x 4 row quad mounts on side ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 20,550 lbs / 9,321 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 10.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
4.00" / 102 mm 500.00 ft / 152.40 m 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 86.00 ft / 26.21 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 15.0" / 381 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 6.00" / 152 mm
Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 14.00" / 356 mm, Aft 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 133,299 shp / 99,441 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,268 tons

Complement:
1,771 - 2,303

Cost:
£10.435 million / $41.740 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,514 tons, 8.4 %
- Guns: 4,514 tons, 8.4 %
Armour: 18,616 tons, 34.5 %
- Belts: 5,557 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,220 tons, 4.1 %
- Armament: 3,909 tons, 7.2 %
- Armour Deck: 6,407 tons, 11.9 %
- Conning Towers: 523 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 4,661 tons, 8.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 19,281 tons, 35.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,911 tons, 12.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.1 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
83,931 lbs / 38,070 Kg = 41.0 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 14.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 8.0 ft / 2.4 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.606 / 0.612
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.68 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.00 ft / 9.45 m, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 23.80 ft / 7.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 175.2 %
Waterplane Area: 70,843 Square feet or 6,581 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 219 lbs/sq ft or 1,070 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 1.14
- Overall: 1.03
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ryan Thunder]

Lighter guns would help.

Then I get outshot by foreign designs with 9 x 18" guns. Oh well its just for getting around South and North America at the furthest, anyway, which 9 000 nm is quite sufficient for.

Future designs will probably sacrifice speed for endurance.

Aurora, Columbian battlecruiser laid down 1920

Displacement:
45 276 t light; 47 901 t standard; 53 000 t normal; 57 079 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(678.90 ft / 656.17 ft) x 114.83 ft (Bulges 131.23 ft) x (32.81 / 35.27 ft)
(206.93 m / 200.00 m) x 35.00 m (Bulges 40.00 m) x (10.00 / 10.75 m)

Armament:
9 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 2 804.10lbs / 1 271.92kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 53.17lbs / 24.12kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
60 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 17.11lbs / 7.76kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
20 x Twin mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
10 x Twin mounts on centreline, aft deck forward
80 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
20 x 2 row twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 26 923 lbs / 12 212 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 1.97" / 50 mm 229.63 ft / 69.99 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Upper: 9.84" / 250 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.95" / 75 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 82.02 ft / 25.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 17.7" / 450 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 17.7" / 450 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 6.89" / 175 mm
Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm Quarter deck: 0.98" / 25 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 108 483 shp / 80 929 Kw = 25.50 kts
Range 9 000nm at 17.25 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 9 178 tons

Complement:
1 746 - 2 270

Cost:
£10.872 million / $43.489 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4 305 tons, 8.1 %
- Guns: 4 305 tons, 8.1 %
Armour: 18 848 tons, 35.6 %
- Belts: 5 716 tons, 10.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1 176 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 5 728 tons, 10.8 %
- Armour Deck: 5 988 tons, 11.3 %
- Conning Towers: 239 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 3 793 tons, 7.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18 331 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7 724 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
83 663 lbs / 37 949 Kg = 30.1 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 14.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 9.2 ft / 2.8 m
Roll period: 18.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.657 / 0.658
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 39.37 ft / 12.00 m, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 29.07 ft / 8.86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 176.7 %
Waterplane Area: 58 070 Square feet or 5 395 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 247 lbs/sq ft or 1 204 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 2.16
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Steve]

Again, that's not a battlecruiser. Any real battlecruiser will leave that thing in its wake.

If you're not going to go for at least 27 knots then bite the bullet and lower it to 22-24 knots for a normal standard dreadnought.

And a cruise speed of 15 is more than sufficient.

[Beowulf]

Hell, it doesn't even have a real advantage in speed over a real battleship either. Also, it appears to have excessive amounts of AA for the period.

[Steve]

Frankly the ship shouldn't have enough room for all those mounts.....

[CmdrWilkens]

Revised SantaAna class. Comments welcome and much appreciated:

Santa Ana, Mexico Battleship laid down 1920 (Engine 1922)

Displacement:
43,075 t light; 45,721 t standard; 48,000 t normal; 49,824 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(726.83 ft / 713.00 ft) x 104.00 ft (Bulges 110.00 ft) x (35.00 / 36.16 ft)
(221.54 m / 217.32 m) x 31.70 m (Bulges 33.53 m) x (10.67 / 11.02 m)

Armament:
12 - 16.54" / 420 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,393.12lbs / 1,085.50kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Triple mounts on centreline, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
18 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1920 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 600 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 29,790 lbs / 13,513 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 380.00 ft / 115.82 m 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length
Main Belt inclined 15.00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
4.00" / 102 mm 380.00 ft / 115.82 m 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 90.00 ft / 27.43 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 18.0" / 457 mm 10.0" / 254 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 7.00" / 178 mm
Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 52,835 shp / 39,415 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,103 tons

Complement:
1,620 - 2,107

Cost:
£11.390 million / $45.559 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5,306 tons, 11.1 %
- Guns: 5,306 tons, 11.1 %
Armour: 17,920 tons, 37.3 %
- Belts: 4,648 tons, 9.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,800 tons, 3.7 %
- Armament: 4,925 tons, 10.3 %
- Armour Deck: 6,205 tons, 12.9 %
- Conning Tower: 341 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 1,792 tons, 3.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 18,057 tons, 37.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,925 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
62,515 lbs / 28,356 Kg = 27.7 x 16.5 " / 420 mm shells or 10.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 18.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.99
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.612 / 0.615
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 38.00 ft / 11.58 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forward deck: 35.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Average freeboard: 23.28 ft / 7.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.9 %
Waterplane Area: 54,845 Square feet or 5,095 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 248 lbs/sq ft or 1,208 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.73
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Steve]

Not bad, not bad at all. I may have to investigate creating superheavy shells to challenge with my 16"/50s.

I do tend to go for a bit more speed than that, though, which allows for tactical maneuvering.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

You might want to lengthen the belt to cover 100% of nominal length..

[Steve]

Not entirely necessary, really, and I'm not sure he could.

It does leave more of the ship unprotected, but as long as vitals are covered it's a sincere design choice if faced with trying to keep tonnage down.

[CmdrWilkens]

You might want to lengthen the belt to cover 100% of nominal length..

I completely cover the machinery and magazines so I see no need to extend it to the default length just to get the 100% there, its just wasted weight at that point. I mean I could do it but I'd have to gun down to 16" instead of 16.5" and I'd like to keep the 420mm since I could then get some economies of scale with my siege arty shell production . Oh and so long as Ryan is intent on his monster ship I need the weight in my broadside since right now I actually throw more than his 450mm guns.

[Steve]

Generally extra length is good because it could protect your vitals from stern or bow-facing fire. If it's just enough belt to cover vitals then someone shooting you from behind and to the side could have a shell hit your unarmored ends and travel "behind" the belt to vitals.

That said, you do have a good reason and it's just one of those design tradeoffs naval designers sometimes face. More protection means more weight which means you need heavier engines to maintain desired speed and which raises the price of the vessel.

[CmdrWilkens]

BTW on the weight note, and I'll put this here, I've generally classed out my CapShips as 25, 30, 35, 40kt, etc for early accounting purposes. Once I've actually got designs to use I'm going to go back and re-calc against the 1,200 kt limit to see if I need to lose a few DDs, CLs, or other.

[Steve]

Ignore my last post - silly me, but I forgot that ships incorporated an internal armored bulkhead of the same thickness and height as the belt at the ends of that belt.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, for AP rounds, the weight of the broadside may or may not be a factor. It's actually a combination of the right muzzle velocity, and the weight of the shell. I think a heavier shell with lower muzzle velocity has better Armor piercing properties, particularly when they started putting large explosives in AP rounds.

[Ma Deuce]

Ignore my last post - silly me, but I forgot that ships incorporated an internal armored bulkhead of the same thickness and height as the belt at the ends of that belt.

In many cases the closing bulkheads were actually thinner than the main belt: Bismarck for example had only 8.7 inch bulkheads; Iowa's were 11.3 inches. Springsharp however assumes these bulkheads to be equally thick as the main belt. The only way I could think to sim thinner bulkheads would be to find the total length of both belts and both bulkheads, then use an average of all of them for the belt thickness figure, however this is easier said than done, because while Springsharp apparently uses a combination of the maximum beam, block cooeficient, and belt length to calculate the bulkhead width, I'm unsure of it's exact formula.

Well, for AP rounds, the weight of the broadside may or may not be a factor. It's actually a combination of the right muzzle velocity, and the weight of the shell. I think a heavier shell with lower muzzle velocity has better Armor piercing properties, particularly when they started putting large explosives in AP rounds.

Slower, heavier shells also have steeper fall angles, making them better at piercing deck armor. That, and by virtue having a greater sectional density, they will be less affected by air resistance and thus will retain more momentum (particularly since the arching flightpath of heavier shells carries them into thinner air at the peak of their trajectory). Of course, lighter, faster shells also tended to have much more streamlined windscreens than their heavy counterparts.

[Ryan Thunder]

Okay, let's try this again. I've given up on the Aurora; I'll just try to get the most out of my smaller boats for now.

Valiente, Columbian monitor laid down 1920

Displacement:
7 580 t light; 7 982 t standard; 8 800 t normal; 9 454 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(459.32 ft / 459.32 ft) x 65.62 ft x (18.04 / 19.12 ft)
(140.00 m / 140.00 m) x 20.00 m x (5.50 / 5.83 m)

Armament:
4 - 11.81" / 300 mm 50.0 cal guns - 872.13lbs / 395.59kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm 45.0 cal guns - 53.17lbs / 24.12kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
2 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 17.11lbs / 7.76kg shells, 200 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3 740 lbs / 1 696 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 66 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65.62 ft / 20.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 4.72" / 120 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 14 527 shp / 10 837 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 6 000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 473 tons

Complement:
453 - 590

Cost:
£1.706 million / $6.822 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 752 tons, 8.5 %
- Guns: 752 tons, 8.5 %
Armour: 3 002 tons, 34.1 %
- Belts: 845 tons, 9.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 212 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 425 tons, 4.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1 448 tons, 16.5 %
- Conning Towers: 72 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 508 tons, 5.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 318 tons, 37.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 220 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15 790 lbs / 7 162 Kg = 19.2 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 15.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 96 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.58

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.566 / 0.574
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 22.97 ft / 7.00 m, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 18.04 ft / 5.50 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 15.49 ft / 4.72 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 58.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.6 %
Waterplane Area: 21 359 Square feet or 1 984 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 626 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.77
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Vindicador, Columbian frigate laid down 1920

Displacement:
14 463 t light; 15 098 t standard; 15 996 t normal; 16 714 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(590.55 ft / 590.55 ft) x 82.02 ft x (21.33 / 22.07 ft)
(180.00 m / 180.00 m) x 25.00 m x (6.50 / 6.73 m)

Armament:
4 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1 319.35lbs / 598.45kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Twin mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.94" / 100.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 30.77lbs / 13.96kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck centre
2 - 3.15" / 80.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 17.11lbs / 7.76kg shells, 200 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 0.27lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2 000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1920 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5 439 lbs / 2 467 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.2" / 260 mm 354.33 ft / 108.00 m 10.86 ft / 3.31 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 354.33 ft / 108.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.97" / 50 mm 354.33 ft / 108.00 m 18.08 ft / 5.51 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 82.02 ft / 25.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 5.91" / 150 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 3.94" / 100 mm, Aft 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 19 620 shp / 14 637 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 4 500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1 616 tons

Complement:
710 - 924

Cost:
£2.622 million / $10.488 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 948 tons, 5.9 %
- Guns: 948 tons, 5.9 %
Armour: 6 776 tons, 42.4 %
- Belts: 2 433 tons, 15.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 467 tons, 2.9 %
- Armament: 926 tons, 5.8 %
- Armour Deck: 2 843 tons, 17.8 %
- Conning Towers: 108 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 686 tons, 4.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 053 tons, 37.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 533 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43 076 lbs / 19 539 Kg = 32.9 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 9.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 14.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.61

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.542 / 0.547
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.20 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 26.74 ft / 8.15 m, 21.88 ft / 6.67 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 21.88 ft / 6.67 m, 16.99 ft / 5.18 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 16.99 ft / 5.18 m, 16.99 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 16.99 ft / 5.18 m, 16.99 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 19.34 ft / 5.89 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 43.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167.6 %
Waterplane Area: 33 552 Square feet or 3 117 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 123 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs/sq ft or 721 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather