SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread IX

[Raj Ahten]

Stas I think you went a bit overboard with directly bribing news outlets. No way that would stay in the shadows. Of course we have no definitive evidence that it was the UCSR that did it, but really who else could it be?

Besides Indhopal could use some brownie points with the MESS and this doesn't really cost me that much

[MKSheppard]

WHORES

[Lonestar]

sbbigsteve (5:16:21 PM): ....if there's a Dr. Shroomhatten I will have to hurt you.

[Siege]

Yup. Or, judging by your slogging through of the Story threads, an uemployed graphics artist.

Okay... I'm not deeply involved in any of this, and I don't really care either way, but let me be the one to say... That's a fucking low blow. I don't fucking care where it came from; it's uncalled for, and you pathetic bastards fucking know it.

Fin, what documentation? Because it wasn't anything from that meeting, I can promise you. There were no transcripts or audio recordings or anything of that sort for the meeting itself. I can tell you this since it was held in Miami. In my nation. My conference hall. So what do you have in this documentation?

What reason does the Byzantine emperor have to pull shite out of his arse? You really gonna call it sour grapes? Are you not familiar with the concept that at some point a critical mass of circumstantial evidence makes a goddamn convincing case? Each specific allegation on its own might not be enough to convince the world, but if enough allegations are heaped upon the MESS, you bet that at some point people will start to ask questions.

Seigetank, since we've seemed to have agreed about all the major points of the highway project I figure I'll just announce it in the game thread to try and get other nations involved. For the irrigation projects lets have the scientists publish some feasibility studies and so forth and go from there.

Right; that works for me. Let's tarmac away.

[Lonestar]

Okay... I'm not deeply involved in any of this, and I don't really care either way, but let me be the one to say... That's a fucking low blow. I don't fucking care where it came from; it's uncalled for, and you pathetic bastards fucking know it.

Fuck off, he's the one who called me a liar.

[Siege]

Oh sod off you inexcusable prick. Either you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about or you were lying. As far as I'm concerned he extended you the benefit of the doubt. Turns out you were pulling shite out of your arse, and that's your excuse for breaking out what amounts to the most pathetic out-of-context name-calling I've seen in this game? That's beneath you, and you know it.

[CmdrWilkens]

Yes I think that large portions in most CATO nations believe Stanislav (and yet probably 60%+ don't care )

You mean Sheppard's missiles didn't rain on the Old Continent 10 years ago? Man, "don't care"? You're grasping at straws...

Have you ever walked and talked to the civilian population of a nation at war? I have, despite the fact that we were daily bombing the shit out of cities and in turn getting the shit blown out of us the vast majority of Iraqis I interacted with just wanted to go about their lives and couldn't give two shits whether we were around or not. I would say from real world experience that there is always a large population base that you can stir to active endeavour and a much larger population base that will go with the flow but honestly couldn't care either way. The willing quiescence of the middle is the most basic force out there and it would take a hell of a lot to motivate them to action, nothing you've done so far strikes me as the sort of thing to get tempers raised in more than the dedicated protions of a nations counter culture base.

Take the US debate on torture for example, we have REAMS of data that point towards the actions taken and yet politicans still slide by deflecting things because at the end of the day the vast majority of people just don't give a shit about the President of the United States ordering torture of individuals. Saddam Hussein gassed his own people and most of us agree that the US invasion was stupid and ill thought out, world opinion was decisively against action and in fact barely supportive of sanctions as it was even after a sustained PR campaign. Actually take that as the perfect example, despite a long and sustained PR campaign mixing truth with bought or distorted "facts" world opinion was still decisvely against action against Hussein and you somehow think that Stanislav and Heraclius (who both have axes to grind) will somehow sway world opinion in some decisive manner? I seriously doubt it I really do.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Can i just say that the fact you guys actually ent ahead with "ROBOSHROOM" made my day, really laughed my ass off at it. And also, for once, I am pleased I have not yet, 'officially' signed up as a CATO member, yep, official neutrality is looking mighty good right now.

And siegetank? Don't take things too personally here, it jkust doesn't end well trust me.. That...and I don't want a future client to get nuked

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

So, you really did name an aircraft carrier after Sesshomaru. Considering that I named my own aircraft carrier (and hell, my entire nation) after Asuka Langley Soryu, that's par for the course, really.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Yes, and if i had access to a better photoshop and certain images, I'd have scantly clad Bishonen "painted" the nose cones of many an aircraft and a few naval ship decks. Alas

[Steve]

So, you really did name an aircraft carrier after Sesshomaru. Considering that I named my own aircraft carrier (and hell, my entire nation) after Asuka Langley Soryu, that's par for the course, really.

Whenever I see that name "Sesshomaru" I think of this VGCats strip where the artist responds to purported fan-mail insisting on Inuyasha being referenced.

"It's freaking Dragon Ball Z for girls!"

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

So, you really did name an aircraft carrier after Sesshomaru. Considering that I named my own aircraft carrier (and hell, my entire nation) after Asuka Langley Soryu, that's par for the course, really.

Whenever I see that name "Sesshomaru" I think of this VGCats strip where the artist responds to purported fan-mail insisting on Inuyasha being referenced.

"It's freaking Dragon Ball Z for girls!"

I'd write a few things on how poorly the InuYasha anime was handled and how batshit insane certain parts of the fanbase are, but that's neither here nor there with regards to this game.

In any case, I'm definitely one of the worst people here when it comes to naming stuff after other stuff. Seriously, I think I'm the only one here crazy enough to name an entire class of frigates after Reimu Hakurei.

[K. A. Pital]

I think the point's been made that Heraclius has every reason in the world to go along with a vicious attack on the MESS given how his relationship with them ended up.

Yeah, except the facts that Heraclius brought up I did not know, and they are new information. I merely suspected Shep whereas he basically shed the light on a meeting of the MESS that concerned his existence.

Your plan to try and find Shepistani exiles who will claim they saw Shep alive after the Pathogen War, or that the Old Dominion took him into custody, etc, is more key to making it believable.

It has been greenlighted.

In the end, all you've done is ensure the CATO-MESS split becomes permanent

The CATO didn't bring Shep to power, the same Shep who basically wanted to annihilate the entire world. As for the MESS, why would the more conscious members of the MESS stand behind the Old Dominion and Al-Sheppard? To get a piece of the blame?

This will hardly change anything in MESS-CATO grand relations - political antagonism, pragmatism in trade; however, the Old Dominion and Sirnoth international relations would undergo... quite a stress, especially the current government. And it might be economic as well as political.

Of course we have no definitive evidence that it was the UCSR that did it, but really who else could it be?

Actually I'm just a private citizen.

[Siege]

I want to apologize for my previous comment - I was rude and ungentlemanly and most of all quite unconstructive. It was late at the time I wrote it and I was irritated over something else, and I shouldn't've flown off the handle like that. So, sorry about that.

[Lonestar]

Oh sod off you inexcusable prick. Either you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about or you were lying. As far as I'm concerned he extended you the benefit of the doubt. Turns out you were pulling shite out of your arse, and that's your excuse for breaking out what amounts to the most pathetic out-of-context name-calling I've seen in this game? That's beneath you, and you know it.

He lowered himself to OOC lying to cover up Sheppo crimes truly, the game is having a heavy toll on the senile "Lord" Fairfax

Highlighted for the benefit of your walnut-sized brain. There is no "benefit of the doubt" there, he's the one that started making this personal, not me. And I didn't even call HIM out on him making the claim that I said(OOC) no one in the MESS leadership knew of Shep's existence. At least, I didn't call him out in a way that assumed he was flatout lying as opposed to misremembering or misreading.

But hey, Stas can use OOC information IC and claim it's "coincidental" with nary a peep. He can not read through all the posts(which is fine, there are a lot of them) and then act shocked and outraged enough to start acts of wars when he finally realizes what's going on(shooting down Satellites to force a retcon towards his preference) and no one cares. But when I lash back at his many OOC slights and I get a talking to by others. So yeah. Feck off.


GOD-modeing! The closest communists come to Religion!

[K. A. Pital]

But hey, Stas can use OOC information IC and claim it's "coincidental" with nary a peep.

Um... remind me, what OOC information did I use IC and when? (HERV claims was definetely not me using OOC; more of a mistake of not following the game and thus not knowing HERV research was made public already). Besides, occasional flamewars serve the game. I don't really understand your beef though, you basically made two or three posts demanding me to prove Shepistani SAC was participant to war crimes, with brash arrogance that it's not so.

Anyways, I hold no grudges. Making a living in Russia is hard enough to have Internet grudges, besides I have a pending 1 month vacation and still the third part of "Operation Uncover" to complete before I leave.

Excuse me if I bothered you man.

[PeZook]

Have you ever walked and talked to the civilian population of a nation at war? I have, despite the fact that we were daily bombing the shit out of cities and in turn getting the shit blown out of us the vast majority of Iraqis I interacted with just wanted to go about their lives and couldn't give two shits whether we were around or not. I would say from real world experience that there is always a large population base that you can stir to active endeavour and a much larger population base that will go with the flow but honestly couldn't care either way. The willing quiescence of the middle is the most basic force out there and it would take a hell of a lot to motivate them to action, nothing you've done so far strikes me as the sort of thing to get tempers raised in more than the dedicated protions of a nations counter culture base.

Dude, I really think there's a slight difference between "foreign power invades and occupies our nation" and "bioweapons are raining on our heads". The situations aren't even remotely analogous, since the US isn't trying to kill every fucking Iraqi via horrible disease cocktails, so you can try to go about your life.

When you're a PeZookian who still remembers cowering in his home/fallout shelter as military patrols in MOPP gear drove through the streets, ABM missiles streaked up into the sky and you're wondering whether or not the air defences got them all, and if you'll perhaps die a month later while bleeding out of ever orifice, it's a little bit harder to ignore Sheppard's apparent resurrection.

[Lonestar]

aaaannnnnndddd.....I couldn't help including Fin's little "Oopsie" in his speech. Fin man, you are a credit to CATO

[CmdrWilkens]

Have you ever walked and talked to the civilian population of a nation at war? I have, despite the fact that we were daily bombing the shit out of cities and in turn getting the shit blown out of us the vast majority of Iraqis I interacted with just wanted to go about their lives and couldn't give two shits whether we were around or not. I would say from real world experience that there is always a large population base that you can stir to active endeavour and a much larger population base that will go with the flow but honestly couldn't care either way. The willing quiescence of the middle is the most basic force out there and it would take a hell of a lot to motivate them to action, nothing you've done so far strikes me as the sort of thing to get tempers raised in more than the dedicated protions of a nations counter culture base.

Dude, I really think there's a slight difference between "foreign power invades and occupies our nation" and "bioweapons are raining on our heads". The situations aren't even remotely analogous, since the US isn't trying to kill every fucking Iraqi via horrible disease cocktails, so you can try to go about your life.

When you're a PeZookian who still remembers cowering in his home/fallout shelter as military patrols in MOPP gear drove through the streets, ABM missiles streaked up into the sky and you're wondering whether or not the air defences got them all, and if you'll perhaps die a month later while bleeding out of ever orifice, it's a little bit harder to ignore Sheppard's apparent resurrection.

Yet the Iraqis were living with bombs exploding in their market place on a non-routine but almost daily basis for more than 2 1/2 years when I was last over there. A PeZookian citizen mightt remember cowering but he also remembers it as a period of a month or so a decade past. The folks I were dealign with had all the bad shit going on of people snathed from heir homes in midnight raids, roadside business turned into meat grinders, village squares becoming open air barbeques and they had been doing so for YEARS. The psychological weight of time is, I would hold, far more disruptive than scope. Moroever the actual physical destruction was worse for the Iraqis than for our hypothetical civilians.

That said if we are tlakign differences we are talking one of degrees and not orders of magnitude. As I said above Saddam gassed his own people and aside from the Kurds themselves few if any folks were enthusiastic about confronting him. My point being that while I don't doubt a goodly chunk of USCR, PeZookian, Shroomian, and even Canissian citizens would likely be motivated by this speech for the vast majority of the rest of the world it has no resonance. For citizens on the F-ing they were never under the gun and so its a 10 year old crisis that they remember being angry about but honestly do more than a handful care? On Messamerica both MESS and non-MESS nations were never under the gun though the former obviously acted in support of the Old Dominion and have some lingering distaste about Sheppard but they woudl also be inclined to believe that Stanislav is spouting bull.

It takes me right back to my first point, the vast majority of people don't care. I certainly think there would be mass support in the USCR, there likely will be support in Byzantium which is still smarting from the way the MESS blundered that nation's exit and the rest of CATO is probably more likely to believe Stanislav than Fairfax...but are any of them going to do anything about it? There is a huge gap between being mad about something even having a deep seated hatred and acting upon it and I don't think Stanislav has done more than alter the percentages a little bit against the OD. So there might be some anti-OD bias in contract negotiations on the Old Continent and the F-ing but they've also got a rapidly exapnding domestic base with the OICAS so at worst it may shave a percentage poitn off the ODs economic growth but that woudl be about the worst case scenario based on everything I've seen so far.

[Crossroads Inc.]

So basically are CATO / MESS Relations fcked at this point? If nmot ingame they certainly seem so Out opf game with all the houting going on.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

aaaannnnnndddd.....I couldn't help including Fin's little "Oopsie" in his speech. Fin man, you are a credit to CATO

Nonsense. It was perfectly calculated and intended that in the event of an actual release, we would cloth ourselves in proper fine clothing and claim credit for the destruction of a megalomaniac who destroyed Astaria.

Yes, we would. Quite frankly, we would be most glad to make an example of Shep. And that would serve as a warning to those who dare take advantage of another country's weakness.

So yes, I perfectly knew what would happen. By all means gloat. As it is the world is getting more polarized. Making it more polarized is perfectly fine with me. Detente be damned.

[CmdrWilkens]

So basically are CATO / MESS Relations fcked at this point? If nmot ingame they certainly seem so Out opf game with all the houting going on.

CATO/MESS relations have been fucked for quite some time. I won't even try to go through it because part of the reason they've been fucked is neither of us agrees upon a timeline of slights upon the other.

Oh and if you are sending SpecOp teams into the MESS...that woudl be foolish because:
A) None of us have any documentation to find (other than Lonestar)
B) All of the people in the know are rather heavily guarded so a clandestine extraction would be impossible
C) A military operation on foreign soil is cause for war, you might want to stick to something a little more discreeet like deniable intelligence activities using either agents with diplomatic cover (and thus not subject to imprisonment) or withou diplomatic cover (but thus able to blend in wit the background a bit more)

Either way you probably aren't going to find anything.

[Shroom Man 777]

Some points:

1.) How DIFFERENT does "Rhee Ann" Sheppard look like from the original vanilla Al Sheppard?
a.)Are they identical? b.)Is there some difference? c.)A little difference? d.)Are they virtually different-looking individuals who look nothing alike? e.)When they saw Sheppard at Shroom's funeral, did Stephen Garrett and everyone else who knew Sheppard... recognize that it was Shep?

2.) If the answer is a.)They are identical. Is it known that there are Twin Sheppards?

> This applies if the answer is e.)Stephen Garrett, Rufus Shinra, etc. recognized Sheppard as Sheppard.

3.) If the Sheppards are identical, then how the HELL can HERV transmogrify his DNA? If his DNA gets altered so that, genetically, he is an entirely different person - then HOW COME HE STILL LOOKS THE SAME? DNA DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

> If HERV totally handwaves this away, BAH! What a crock of crappo. You might as well give Shep adamantium bones and retractable claws or some shit!

4.) If the answer is b.)There is some difference c.)A little difference. Is it known that there are Sheppard Brothers?

5.) If the answer is d.)They are virtually different-looking individuals who look nothing alike... then there is nothing to discuss.


#4 and #5 are meh.

#2 and #3 are... hard to refute.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Oh and if you are sending SpecOp teams into the MESS...that woudl be foolish because:
A) None of us have any documentation to find (other than Lonestar)
B) All of the people in the know are rather heavily guarded so a clandestine extraction would be impossible
C) A military operation on foreign soil is cause for war, you might want to stick to something a little more discreeet like deniable intelligence activities using either agents with diplomatic cover (and thus not subject to imprisonment) or withou diplomatic cover (but thus able to blend in wit the background a bit more)

Either way you probably aren't going to find anything.

Shoot Im not that stupid to actually try and start something, I was thinking purely information gathering, mostly so if they try plotting something I can know about it. Though If as you say I am not going to find anything, I may scale it back again. But Lord I have NO Interest in either "extracting" shep nor starting anything, I just want to know whats going on.

[Shroom Man 777]

And why the fuck are people covering for Sheppard, anyway?

Does SDNWorld Rufus Shinra think that it's cool for Loinstar to harbor Shep because they used to be buddies from an internet message board, even though in this new-world Shep's antagonism and aggression has caused the death of UNTOLD MILLIONS? Not to mention the fact that in the PREVIOUS WORLD he's caused even MORE DEATHS OF UNTOLD MILLIONS!

Mang.