SDN World 3 Ship Design Thread

[Steve]

Why do you always mount all your guns on foredeck? Why not go for Centerline ends with distribution of fore and aft?

[Ryan Thunder]

Why do you always mount all your guns on foredeck? Why not go for Centerline ends with distribution of fore and aft?

The second battery, perhaps. I put the main guns superfiring forward because it means I can project the most firepower while presenting the smallest profile to return fire. In theory, anyway.

[Steve]

It also means your weakest armor is pointing toward your enemy, your ship could be bow-heavy and unbalanced, and a host of other problems.

[Ryan Thunder]

Hmm... Okay, balancing it out actually gave me some extra CS to work with, so I added a few more (okay more like doubled XD) 10 cm guns and turned the heavy AAA guns into twin mounts.

Anything else?

[K. A. Pital]

I will add that Ryan's tower placement for firepower considerations are sound enough and were behind some IRL engineering (Nelson class).

[Thanas]

Ryan, putting all guns forward is really bad for cruisers. For battleships, there might be a good reason, but otherwise I honestly wouldn't use it.

EDIT:
I am also not sure if, on high speed ships, you might not be better served with more faster-firing guns of slower caliber.

[Steve]

That's my conundrum with Defiant: do I keep the 9 16"/50s firing 2,400 pound shells or do I upgrade to 7 18"/45s firing 3,000 pound shells?

As it is I've altered Sovereign to have 9 18"/45s and not 12 16"/50s. Was about to do this without altering her tonnage, as I forbade myself from doing that as the entire run has already been launched.

[Ryan Thunder]

Ryan, putting all guns forward is really bad for cruisers. For battleships, there might be a good reason, but otherwise I honestly wouldn't use it.

Okay.

I am also not sure if, on high speed ships, you might not be better served with more faster-firing guns of slower caliber.

I suppose its the weight of the broadside that's important as opposed to the calibre of the individual shells?

[Raesene]

[...]I am also not sure if, on high speed ships, you might not be better served with more faster-firing guns of slower caliber.

I suppose its the weight of the broadside that's important as opposed to the calibre of the individual shells?

You also increase the probability of landing hits with more guns firing. Fast ships means (large) cruisers in most cases, and those fight mostly against other cruisers or destroyers. A 10-12'' shell will kill a (normal) cruiser performing a torpedo attack just as well as a 16'' shell most of the time, but a ship will be able to carry way more 12'' than 16''. It also works the other way, a faster ship will have to maneuver to evade due to its lack of armour, ruining its chances for precise firing. More guns will increase the probability to hit anything again, even for if each shell shell weighs less. It's better to land an e.g. 21cm shell out of eight fired than missing with heavier 35cm guns because you carry only four of them.

[loomer]

Well, here we go. The one naval vessel of the PRA, and my first time toying with SpringSharp.

PRA Prophet, People's Republic of Afghanistan Converted Fisher laid down 1901 (Engine 1910)
Barbette ship

Displacement:
899 t light; 979 t standard; 985 t normal; 989 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
108.27 ft / 108.27 ft x 26.25 ft x 13.12 ft (normal load)
33.00 m / 33.00 m x 8.00 m x 4.00 m

Armament:
2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (1x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1901 Model
Muzzle loading guns in open barbette
on centreline, all raised guns
4 - 0.43" / 11.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.04lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1920 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 216 lbs / 98 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 500

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 30.00 ft / 9.14 m 6.15 ft / 1.87 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 10.00 ft / 3.05 m 4.15 ft / 1.26 m
68.27 ft / 20.81 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 2.00" / 51 mm 45.00 ft / 13.72 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Main Belt covers 43 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: - - 3.00" / 76 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Petrol Internal combustion motors,
Hydraulic drive, 3 shafts, 542 shp / 404 Kw = 10.27 kts
Range 50nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 10 tons

Complement:
87 - 114

Cost:
£0.057 million / $0.229 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 27 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 65 tons, 6.6 %
- Belts: 40 tons, 4.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 2.6 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 22 tons, 2.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 784 tons, 79.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 85 tons, 8.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,512 lbs / 1,140 Kg = 23.3 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 20 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.37

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.924
Length to Beam Ratio: 4.13 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 10.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 21
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 11.45 ft / 3.49 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 7.28 ft / 2.22 m
- Mid (50 %): 7.28 ft / 2.22 m
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 7.28 ft / 2.22 m
- Stern: 7.28 ft / 2.22 m
- Average freeboard: 7.62 ft / 2.32 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 34.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 43.7 %
Waterplane Area: 2,743 Square feet or 255 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 302 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 909 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 3.56
- Longitudinal: 23.91
- Overall: 4.31
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

[Thanas]

That's my conundrum with Defiant: do I keep the 9 16"/50s firing 2,400 pound shells or do I upgrade to 7 18"/45s firing 3,000 pound shells?

As it is I've altered Sovereign to have 9 18"/45s and not 12 16"/50s. Was about to do this without altering her tonnage, as I forbade myself from doing that as the entire run has already been launched.

7 guns is really pushing it in my opinion.

[Steve]

Yeah, someone else already talked me out of it. Though Wilkens put 9 18"ers on a "Battlecruiser" (Fast Battleship) design he wants to build. Just that he'll have to start it this game year or later as it's over 50,000T just as Defiant. The main tradeoff is that he doesn't have a proper armored deck but saved weight by only making an armored box around his machinery and magazine spaces.

[Thanas]

That is design suicide IMO.

[loomer]

Still gotta be better than the Prophet.

[Thanas]

Alright, 55kt it is.

*redesigns again*

[Steve]

Uh, Wilkens, how did you do that? I just copied your design into SpringSharp and, with a laying year of 1925, it's got a composite strength of .9. .85 if you just go with Centerline Ends for all three and have one turret superfiring. And I copied the design completely.

Can you e-mail me the SpringSharp file? I presume you're using either 3b3 or 3a?

[Norade]

This is my newest battleship design intended to be laid in Q1 1926.

PSS Titan, Portugal Battleship laid down 1926

Displacement:
50,609 t light; 53,605 t standard; 56,044 t normal; 57,996 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(816.15 ft / 787.40 ft) x 114.83 ft x (37.73 / 38.79 ft)
(248.76 m / 240.00 m) x 35.00 m x (11.50 / 11.82 m)

Armament:
9 - 18.00" / 457 mm 52.0 cal guns - 3,500.00lbs / 1,587.57kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
1 x Triple mount on centreline, aft deck centre
20 - 6.00" / 152 mm 50.0 cal guns - 114.33lbs / 51.86kg shells, 200 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1926 Model
10 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 50.0 cal guns - 33.88lbs / 15.37kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1926 Model
6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 34,193 lbs / 15,510 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 483.39 ft / 147.34 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 304.01 ft / 92.66 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Upper: 5.00" / 127 mm 413.39 ft / 126.00 m 12.07 ft / 3.68 m
Main Belt covers 94 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.00" / 102 mm 413.39 ft / 126.00 m 34.52 ft / 10.52 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 14.0" / 356 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 7.00" / 178 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 5.00" / 127 mm Quarter deck: 5.00" / 127 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12.00" / 305 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 77,173 shp / 57,571 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,392 tons

Complement:
1,820 - 2,367

Cost:
£18.642 million / $74.566 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5,668 tons, 10.1 %
Armour: 21,574 tons, 38.5 %
- Belts: 6,903 tons, 12.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 2,112 tons, 3.8 %
- Armament: 4,304 tons, 7.7 %
- Armour Deck: 7,876 tons, 14.1 %
- Conning Tower: 379 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,470 tons, 4.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,897 tons, 37.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,435 tons, 9.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
70,085 lbs / 31,790 Kg = 24.0 x 18.0 " / 457 mm shells or 12.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 6.6 ft / 2.0 m
Roll period: 18.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.98
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.575 / 0.579
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 22.97 ft / 7.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Aft deck: 30.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarter deck: 20.00 %, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m, 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 21.92 ft / 6.68 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.0 %
Waterplane Area: 64,599 Square feet or 6,001 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 252 lbs/sq ft or 1,229 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.55
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

That's a rather thin belt... never mind the rather thin turret armor as well.

[Norseman]

That's a rather thin belt... never mind the rather thin turret armor as well.

Can I assume that my designs were acceptable?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

That's a rather thin belt... never mind the rather thin turret armor as well.

Can I assume that my designs were acceptable?

Well, that ship certainly won't stop a 18" round from its own guns, if that is what you mean.

[Steve]

I see you're playing the trick of dividing the groups forward and aft to avoid paying the extra weight for Superfiring turrets....

[Norseman]

What I meant was that no one really commented on the battleship designs that I posted, I think they are fairly competent even if they aren't perfect, but I'm not sure.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

What I meant was that no one really commented on the battleship designs that I posted, I think they are fairly competent even if they aren't perfect, but I'm not sure.

I probably missed it. Where is it?

[Norseman]

What I meant was that no one really commented on the battleship designs that I posted, I think they are fairly competent even if they aren't perfect, but I'm not sure.

I probably missed it. Where is it?

Right here kind of big for being missed

[Norade]

I was told that I couldn't have armor much higher than 14" after I tried to make a ship with 18" armor earlier...