SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK III

[Mr Bean]

Let me make one thing clear. I stick to treaties I signed, My word is my bond. I signed the bioweapon ban, be very clear that I will do my utmost as I hope all other nations will to utterly destroy any nation who uses biological weapons in any situation.

Second
But I did NOT sign on to the Liberaltopian non-interference. I was before, and I was after the agreement medalling in internal affairs of Terra Libertia. My goal has been the destruction of the Sultanate, the disarmorment of the Son's of the Faith, and the re-intergration of General Alexander as head of the new Liberaltopian military while Ramsley takes civilian control under something resembling a constitutional monarch or a parliamentary democracy.

Now have I been sending weapons, fuel, design specifications or any military aid? No, but I do have agents on the ground and I have sent communications equipment(To ensure I can talk to them when needed with no delays) and I have sent "advisor's" not in the Vietnam style of trainers of the military but in the trade and diplomacy kind.

Since the original agreement was "military" intervention in Terra Libertia I've not violated that, but I have sure as heck been active in that country try to forge a peace for over a year now.

[Mr Bean]

Also let me add something, we are seeing a little to much taking advantage of "secret" information being posted.

If Saddamstain declares, Behold we have Biological weapons then yes everyone knows

If Saddamstain declares, we have many missile systems, look at them... that does not mean you automatically know what's ON those missiles.
This is not Command and Conquer we do not paint Anthrax missiles Green and Nuclear Missiles red.

As Stas says, whispers and rumors. By stating a thing in the game you put it into the story to ensure no one asks you two years from now where the hell the walking nuclear battle-tank came from(Or what have you)

But by posting it you make it possible for other players to, with time investigate and confirm whatever it is your doing. And then it becomes an open secret.

[Coyote]

If you mean Stas's infiltration mission, I don't know-- a sudden surprise nuclear detonation, the sudden surprise announcement of SSNs, and Saddam's history... I'd say there's a good reason for paranoid suspicion, and putting a team on the ground is a prudent move.

If Saddam finds them and flips outs, well, at least he has a reason to flip out. It's not like he wouldn't flip out about something sooner or later, anyway.

[Shroom Man 777]

PeZook: I love how you spun FIA (not FIB, though that could be good too) Director John Baylor's stupid ass assignment into one that's really actually rather fucking clever.

Oh shit!



"GRU OPERATIVES!"



"Sokolov! Get down!"

[PeZook]

PeZook: I love how you spun FIA (not FIB, though that could be good too) Director John Baylor's stupid ass assignment into one that's really actually rather fucking clever.

You mean he was supposed to be a raging idiot?

[Shroom Man 777]

In the stories I write, a lot of my protagonists are John Baylors and they tend to be rather moronic. That shtick has caught on with my fellow writers and they too have made idiot John Baylors. This dude wrote this evil conniving and scheming magnificent bastard non-idiot Baylor though (who also happens to be a high-up in an intelligence agency), and I'm using that guy as basis for the SOFIA chief.

Anyway, yeah - he's supposed to be as eccentric as the rest of Shroomania. But he's an intelligent too (or else, why would he be working in intelligence then? )!

"Just as planned."

[EDIT: I guess part of the Fungal Intelligence Agency's modus operandi is to confuse - and perhaps disturb - the living fuck out of its enemies. Hence, perhaps "coded" telephone conversations will actually sound like phone-sex or something.]

[Master_Baerne]

So...We (the FUN) are sending aid centers-cum-embassies to Libertopia? I'll send some delicious swordfish, if it's needed.

[PeZook]

So...We (the FUN) are sending aid centers-cum-embassies to Libertopia? I'll send some delicious swordfish, if it's needed.

Action will follow the conference - because, frankly, if we won't get the MESS and OMSK to agree on a course of action, then we're doomed to failure.

I'm wonderin, though - should we invite the warlords?

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, you guys can open your embassies if you want. Shroomania will wait and see, though we will deal through the other FUN nation embassies established there.

Shroomania hesitates on diplomatically recognizing those three stooges. The rest of you can lead. This time, Shroomania will follow you guys.

Shroomania is game for humanitarian but non-diplomatic stuff though.

EDIT:

As for the warlords... they can always invite themselves

The Sultan can send an emissary, if he's too busy civil warring. Or he could go himself, perhaps its safer for him to be in Atlantis

[Mr Bean]

Atlantis is a safe zone enforced by myself. Both Alexander and Ramsley have visited in person and all three were invited to the world meeting in 2010. Alexander himself) came and asked to join OMSK right after the conference ended which kicked off this massive chain of events. Ramsley sends his cousin and came stopped by on his way to be give his "Defender of the Faith" title.

The Sultan meanwhile has rebuffed all attempts at communication, and sent no one to the world conferences. Oddly enough so has Saddamstain. That's deeply ironic.

[Mr Bean]

Also I think it's time to expand Atlantis again, currently it serves as home of the International Launch complex which several countries(Including the UKB) for mainly LEO launches, and the meeting place for all International Conferences.

Time for a visual

Red Line's are rough ending place of the used areas.
White Blocks are Ports
Yellow are Airfields(Civilian)


Before I turned Atlantis over to be international territory, before when it was Skull Island I was planning on something like a Hawaii, what Vulpesia has become now.

As you can see now most of the island is not being used. The Green is the International Meeting area, it has it's own port, it's own airfields and the red next to it is the exclusion zone for security. It's left wild but lets say I've built a big-old fence to cut that off from the rest of the island. The zone is twenty miles wide by thirty miles tall, but towards the south it's only ten miles wide.

Meanwhile the Atlantis International Space area has over 2500 Square kilometers dedicated to it, the launch pad and equipment take up less than ten, and I could expand it for more area but what then? There's still around 8000 Square km's of un-used land.

People seemed to forget sometimes but I ceded the equivalent of a Principality in Landmass. Some 15,000 square KM's if I've done my math correct. And I'm using barley a third of that.


What else can we move into Atlantis? Top on my list is International Aid organizations.

[Coyote]

International aid organizations are a start.

A landing strip for any future space-shuttle like vehicles? A place for experiments like Biosphere?

Right now I see a nature preserve, really.

[Raj Ahten]

ProTec has small office in which they run their maritime security office out of; basically its a clearing house for shipping companies and captains on all the latest maratime threats. It is also basically an embassy of sorts for the company. (And no, its not used as a tax shelter.)

I fully support the idea of using Atlantis for basing NGO's out of. Who decides who gets in? As it was your territory Mr.Bean, it would seem to be your perogative. Or does anyone who shows up allowed to set up? If thats the case I could see it being over run with refugees and transients.


Edit: On a different note, ProTec will be looking to buy quite a few transport aircraft. Their operations in Terra libertopia need more iarlift (plus I need to replace some destroyed aircraft.) I was also thinking of starting regular flights into Alexander's territory. Think of it as an airline where the crew all carry guns.

[General Deathdealer]

Because I know Bean is going to ask, I am going to post my calculations on the Hyper Velocity Gun in a few minutes. I am trying to translate them from paper to computer.

[General Deathdealer]

Here are my calculations for Bean.

At 3% efficiency 650J input results in 19.5J output to shoot a 4.5G projectile at 75m/s.

At 5% efficiency 650J input results in 32.5J output to shoot a 4.5G projectile at 125 m/sec.

To shoot a 453.6G (1 pound) projectile at 10 km/s you would need the following:
A = 4.5 * 100.8 (4.5G projectile vs 453.6G projectile)
B = 80 (10000 m/s / 125 m/s)
C = 32.5 (Joules output for 5% efficiency)
D = 20 (Difference between input and output at 5% efficiency)

A * B * C = Output
Output * D = Input

(4.5 * 100.8 ) * (80) * (32.5) = 1,179,360W Output
1,179,360 * 20 = 23,587,200W Input or ~ 23.6Mw

[DarthShady]

Decue man, don't start that Zablorg shit again, we barely killed him last time.

Well, you guys can open your embassies if you want. Shroomania will wait and see, though we will deal through the other FUN nation embassies established there.

Shroomania hesitates on diplomatically recognizing those three stooges. The rest of you can lead. This time, Shroomania will follow you guys.

Shroomania is game for humanitarian but non-diplomatic stuff though.

Same here. We should be careful in our dealings with the goddamn libertopians.

Edit: On a different note, ProTec will be looking to buy quite a few transport aircraft. Their operations in Terra libertopia need more iarlift (plus I need to replace some destroyed aircraft.) I was also thinking of starting regular flights into Alexander's territory. Think of it as an airline where the crew all carry guns.

It is my opinion that PROTEC is getting too involved in Libertopia. Be careful.

[RogueIce]

I fully support the idea of using Atlantis for basing NGO's out of. Who decides who gets in? As it was your territory Mr.Bean, it would seem to be your perogative.

I'd think that decision would be based on some sort of international consensus. Or at the very least, enough people saying "go ahead, we don't care one way or another".

[Mr Bean]

Let me clarify the new updated Atlantis accorders

1. Atlantis shall forever be international territory, no nation or group of nations may ever claim total sovereign rights over it.

2. Atlantis shall no military or long-term residents on it. No citizens of Atlantis shall exist.

3. The land of Atlantis can not be bought or solid, it may only be leased or donated to company's or corporations, but not private citizens. All leases are either for fifty or one hundred years in length. Donated land is a 1,000 year grant.

4. The Atlantis Protection Board is a ten member governing body, each man is elected for for ten years or until recalled by the elected leader or ruler of the country the panel member represents.

4A. Due to Geographic concerns the Bear Republic, The Lonestar Republic, the UKB and the Red Technocracy all have one permanent seat on the panel. The other six seats are handed out on a rotating bases among all member nations who sign the Atlantis accords.

This panel controls all handing out of Atlantis land to International groups.


It goes on from here, might as well make it a game post.

[Mr Bean]

Well I got seven, anything else I need on the Accords?

[RogueIce]

Let me make clear my personal position on the Sultan. Yes, he may be crazy, but he's the crazy we know. And as we've seen, he can at least be talked into showing some semblence of sanity, although it did ignite a civil war. Still, taking him out and "destroying" the Sultanate would be a bad thing and counter productive, nevermind not exactly knowing what people proposing that actually mean.

As far as a unified Terra Libertia, I think that is simply an unrealistic goal at this point. Short of waving a magic wand and saying "Let it be so!" I don't see how any of them would agree to it, not with what's been happening as of late. Maybe several years down the line it could happen, but right now I just don't see it. Not unless we want Libertia to go from African shithole to Kosovo. Either that or it's "unified" on paper only and for all practical purposes it still remains three seperate entities (and that's best case scenario there, depending on who gets the "power").

Although realisticly, I'd think trying to unite Libertia by foreign whim is just going to result in some form of civil war. And that's something I would be strongly opposed to. There's no need to start whacking leaders or encouraging ethnic cleansing down there. And if that's your solution and you are unwilling to discuss any others, then I'm afraid Byzantium's fears of this conference going nowhere will be realized.

[Coyote]

Unless someone wants to spend th etime to mold a Marshal Tito out of one of them... which means as soon as he died, the dream shatters.

Libertopia is an exercise in futility.

[RogueIce]

Unless someone wants to spend th etime to mold a Marshal Tito out of one of them... which means as soon as he died, the dream shatters.

Libertopia is an exercise in futility.

It may be, but the naive idealist in me wants to try anyway.

Anyway, I'd like to stress there is no magic wand. Remember less than a year ago they were still pretty much anarchic and disorganized down there. So someone coming and saying "hay guys its all better!" is gonna get the BS card thrown.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

My position I stated ages ago, so I will repost them here.

Constantinople Times

Clarification of Byzantium's position on Terra Libertia

In a policy statement delivered by the Prime Minister after many weeks of discussion between him and the Emperor, the Prime Minister today outlined Byzantium's position as unequivocally as possible.

The Prime Minister stated that

1. Byzantium's ultimate policy goal for Terra Libertia is lasting peace and stabilization of Terra Libertia. Byzantium believes some kind of agreement can be reached between OMSK, MESS and FUN to ensure some kind of peace can be achieved with regard to an arrangement that recognises all 3 nations on Terra Libertia and to seek an agreement with them that would reduce the incidence of piracy and to give the 3 nations an opportunity to have access to capital legitimately without need and necessity to resort to ill-gotten means. Among the issues that needs to be dealt with on Terra Libertia, is that borders of all 3 nations must be recognised by all of three nations in Terra Libertia and the international community as a whole. All 3 nations of Terra Libertia must also recognise each other. Note that formal recognition of all 3 parties entails the establishment of an embassy to be staffed by members of the 3 powers.

2. Byzantium does not wish that any party, be it private and public, give any form of military aid, be it official or unofficial to any of the 3 nations. Ultimately, any dispute between the nations in Terra Libertia should be settled through diplomatic means without any need to resort to arms and all 3 nations must be actively encouraged to do so. Essentially, the 3 nations on Terra Libertia must solve their own problems, and the international community can either play an active or passive role to encourage them to come to the table. The international community must not however, be involved in any war between the 3 nations.

3. Byzantium believes that peace can be monitored jointly by all 3 alliances through the use of the embassy missions on Terra Libertia. All embassy missions are required to meet and to assemble a report to be presented on Atlantis to representatives of the 3 alliances.

4. To that end, Byzantium proposes that a meeting on Atlantis to be convened in which all the 3 alliances and nations not part of any alliance be invited to a meeting at Atlantis, along with representatives of the 3 nations on Terra Libertia to discuss the possble enactment of the above said proposals. The meeting is advised to be on the leadership level, and real issues to be discussed and agreed upon.

Ultimately, Byzantium hopes that Terra Libertia would be stabilised and peace should be achieved.

So essentially, I believe 3 things are required:

1. Recognition and Aid
2. Non-interference and Diplomacy
3. And finally monitoring the peace.

But clearly some prefer nuking the Sultan or something, and inevitably set off a whole host of revenge attacks by remnants of the Sultan's people on the other 2 nations there and I won't be surprised this is as close as a genocide as we will get in this world. I will not be a party to that and if that happens, I will take action, even unilaterally if required.

[RogueIce]

So essentially, I believe 3 things are required:

1. Recognition and Aid
2. Non-interference and Diplomacy
3. And finally monitoring the peace.

If it makes you feel better, that's pretty much my take on it, and I think PeZook feels the same way. So you'll have at least one member from the other alliances in your corner, even if the rest aren't going for it.

But clearly some prefer nuking the Sultan or something, and inevitably set off a whole host of revenge attacks by remnants of the Sultan's people on the other 2 nations there and I won't be surprised this is as close as a genocide as we will get in this world. I will not be a party to that and if that happens, I will take action, even unilaterally if required.

That's my take on what would happen with the "Kill the Sultan!" plans some people seem to be so eager to enact around here. So I'm with you in opposing those plans. I don't want a Libertopian Civil War or genocide going on down there.

[DarthShady]

Unless someone wants to spend th etime to mold a Marshal Tito out of one of them... which means as soon as he died, the dream shatters.

Libertopia is an exercise in futility.

You know my parents still speak of the good old days when Josip Broz Tito was still alive.