SDN World 3 Country Claiming

[Mr Bean]

Speaking of Alt History, considering I'm going to keep mine as free and as loose as possible to start off any future history thread. Both because I don't want to write all that much. And because something like 40% of our players alt-histories have to explain how they threw of the chains of being a British colonial possession.

*Edit
Kind of like this "Where they were in 1921" picture from Wiki
Link

What I'm pitching basicly is that things go off the rails for Britain in 1810 with King George the III(IE the Mad) holding on much longer than he should have and having fun executing his son for a traitor and someone even worse becoming the next King Leading to a sharp period of British decline from 1810 to 1858 lets say with a good solid three decades of reverse after reverse after disaster after disaster. Followed by Britain climbing back up and re-establishing itself from 1860 to present day.

[Slacker]

Heh. That would be nice if Austria did not want to join with Germany after Versailles (and I fully acknowledged I was winging it). But honestly, if you want to go into a "my AH is more serious than yours" context, you got the wrong guy here.

Austria wanted to join Germany after Versailles because it was economically destroyed and shorn of virtually all of her territory.

However, I think we can both agree that the AH here is not entirely serious, when we're both talking of a largely as-historical 19th century despite the Byzantines winning at Manzikert something like 800 years prior.

[Lascaris]

Hello everyone. If you'd accept one more player I claim the Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina and Parana provinces of Brazil as the Republica Federal di Cisplatina. Further to the 3 provinces, which Norseman has agreed to cede to my upstart nation I'll claim for the republic Paraguay, assuming it isn't already claimed by someone.

And if the Argentine player is willing to part with the Misiones and Corrientes provinces to make a solid connection between Paraguay and the eastern half of the republic...

Earlier I've claimed Paraguay as a satellite nation I'm afraid. My initial position is I'm quite unwilling to give land to a nation for which I have no idea what it's intentions are. Currently I am already a capitalist nation bordered entirely by socialist ones and I certainly don't want to give up land if it is going to another socialist state which could throw even more resources against me in the case of war.

I can say from the here and now that the Cisplatine is most definitely going to be both capitalist and a democracy. Post that it's all a matter of diplomacy nicht wahr?

Speaking of Paraguay, the territory that Norseman has coughed up err I mean graciously provided for me to set up a nation amounts to 576,000 square km. Paraguay would be allowing that 3rd home territory or couple of colonial territory points to play.

Ideally the Cisplatine would be also having Uruguay, Corrientes and Missiones as part of its core territory with its capital at Montevideo given how it is based on the Liga Federal of OTL surviving and becoming a nation of its own separate from both Brazil and Argentina. But that is entirely up to you and the Spanish player to decide. If you people can live without a couple of border provinces in the case of Argentina and one colony less in the case of Spain it would make my life quite easier for certain.

[Norade]

I think I have Cameroon figured out, if it works for everybody I'll just take a naval base in the south to aid with power projection and allow me to reach Angola if need be.

EDIT: Claim pulled, I apparently can't tell the difference between NM and km.

[Setzer]

If Uganda remains unclaimed, can I have it?

[Agent Sorchus]

Scorchus? What is your alt-history to explain how not only that large, elongated chunk of Central Africa remained independent, still lost its Red Sea coast to Egypt and much of the Cameroon coast to Germany, and yet has a colony in Australia?

If you truly, truly want a colony, well....

Alt-Hist works something like this:
Prior to 1820, due to pressure from the Caliphate border certain modernization efforts are directed towards the millitary of the Funj sultanate of Sinnar.

1820s, do to a large semi-'modern' sitting around waiting to be used the leaders of the Sultanate start conquering the full territory of Sudan

1830s Lull in the westward drive of the Sultanate. Increased importance of railways to support the enlarged Sultanate.

1840s Chad is conquered.

1853 Cameroon is fully under the control of the Sultanate

1858 Fleet of Sudanese warships land in Queensland to claim it for the Sultanate. They carry ~6,000 infantry and 120 Artillery pieces. (population of Queensland in 1861 31,000 males and females)

1884 Cameroon coast is ceded to Germany in exchange for Naval favors and certain economic promises. (worked out with Thanas)

Presently there is a understanding about the use of Port facilities in Caliphate Sudan. (worked out with Seige)

PS Setzer I am fine with you having Uganda

[Thanas]

Eh? Why do I have the whole coast of Cameroon? That I cannot afford. Douala is the only place I really want.

[Minister of Pigeonry]

Spain manages to make due with far less population and power than you do. In fact, were I the Spanish player, I would be very afraid of you.

Heh, perhaps. Suppose I could have eaten up more territory than I did but I felt I should go with things that were traditionally Spanish in the past and such, as the main motivation I have for my leader and Spain as a whole runs along the lines of rebuilding some of the Spanish Empire. Maybe I should have gone a bit farther into the ahistorical but, eh, wasn't within my image of Spain at the time.

Might have been wise to up the population too, but I can't see the motivation and guidance of a new Monarch over a period of twenty-three years (in which policy changed from complacency to militarism and expansion) cause the population to increase significantly beyond the historical figures.

Feel like I tied my own hands, heh, but that's alright, I'm enjoying my Spain and I think it'll be interesting to see how the Kingdom will fair as a (albeit up and coming) currently second rate European power. I think I may just be a sucker for the story element of it all, heh.

[Agent Sorchus]

Right it is the full coast of what ever you actually want. I let the language be to loose, Sorry.

[Thanas]

I think Steve might also have accidentally colored the whole coast in the German colours.

[Beowulf]

1858 Fleet of Sudanese warships land in Queensland to claim it for the Sultanate. They carry ~6,000 infantry and 120 Artillery pieces. (population of Queensland in 1861 31,000 males and females)

*bampf* The Royal Navy Pwns your ass. And then the army sallies from New South Wales and knocks you out of there. Possibly the Royal Navy destroys your force on the way.

[Steve]

Right it is the full coast of what ever you actually want. I let the language be to loose, Sorry.

Fixed. Though Thanas, how much of Duala do you have? If too small you might not see it on the map.

[Steve]

1858 Fleet of Sudanese warships land in Queensland to claim it for the Sultanate. They carry ~6,000 infantry and 120 Artillery pieces. (population of Queensland in 1861 31,000 males and females)

*bampf* The Royal Navy Pwns your ass. And then the army sallies from New South Wales and knocks you out of there. Possibly the Royal Navy destroys your force on the way.

To be fair, Bean's history has the British at the end of their Decline period at that time, so that might not happen.

Alternatively, though, no other nation with Australian interests recognizes the Sudanese claim, potential of skirmishes along the 141st Meridian between Cascadian and Sudanese forces, as under the Treaty of Sydney Cascadia considers all of Australia west of the 141st Meridian and south of the Murray River to be Cascadian territories.

This, of course, means the bulk of the Sudanese claim is in the area that under the treaty is recognized by Britain and Cascadia as Manchurian Australia.

[Mr Bean]

To be fair, Bean's history has the British at the end of their Decline period at that time, so that might not happen.

It still could end with the British Navy crushing their fleet only to have the troops kicked by the already landed soldiers. In a decline I can see that playing out as the Royal Fleet being elsewhere when the initial invasion happens. Responding and the local troops just being routed back to their transports and the Sundanese holding the field. It would be about typical for how I'm pushing it with George the III yet unnamed successor giving out military conditions to the best ass-kisser and executing his General's for treason for the Fleet to show how shiny it is and the Army to fumble the end result.

How would a Sudanese Force react if their entire transport and support fleet was crushed yet managed the soldiers who came ashore assuming they would surrender when they found their forces intact? I could even see it being a last straw kind of them when the fool successor withdraws the Navy rather than setting up any kind of blockade.

[Beowulf]

I could still forsee the RN blasting the Sudanese ports to ruins in retaliation. Hey, it stopped the slave trade.

[CmdrWilkens]

Oh, [Uncle Chan]one more thing![/Uncle Chan]

*hangs "No Vacancies" sign on STGOD*

Thank you.

Wait wait!
For Humor value I'm claiming Graham Land and indirectly all of the Antarctic Peninsula. In hopes that someone will try and take it from me and be forced to station troops there.

Total aside but I never did get around to bugging you about the BVI. I had claimed them because I wanted to have all of the VIs. Its a REAL minor deal (since I could just drop it and take St Kitts, or Barbuda, or any of the other Lesser Antilles ) but we should probably clear it up before I start talking about amphibs practicing off Jost Van Dyke.

[Mr Bean]

Total aside but I never did get around to bugging you about the BVI. I had claimed them because I wanted to have all of the VIs. Its a REAL minor deal (since I could just drop it and take St Kitts, or Barbuda, or any of the other Lesser Antilles ) but we should probably clear it up before I start talking about amphibs practicing off Jost Van Dyke.

Put it your history that you bought them from Britain to pay off Royal gambling debt, them being crown lands.

[CmdrWilkens]

Total aside but I never did get around to bugging you about the BVI. I had claimed them because I wanted to have all of the VIs. Its a REAL minor deal (since I could just drop it and take St Kitts, or Barbuda, or any of the other Lesser Antilles ) but we should probably clear it up before I start talking about amphibs practicing off Jost Van Dyke.

Put it your history that you bought them from Britain to pay off Royal gambling debt, them being crown lands.

Perfect

[Norseman]

I can say from the here and now that the Cisplatine is most definitely going to be both capitalist and a democracy. Post that it's all a matter of diplomacy nicht wahr?

Speaking of Paraguay, the territory that Norseman has coughed up err I mean graciously provided for me to set up a nation amounts to 576,000 square km. Paraguay would be allowing that 3rd home territory or couple of colonial territory points to play.

Ideally the Cisplatine would be also having Uruguay, Corrientes and Missiones as part of its core territory with its capital at Montevideo given how it is based on the Liga Federal of OTL surviving and becoming a nation of its own separate from both Brazil and Argentina. But that is entirely up to you and the Spanish player to decide. If you people can live without a couple of border provinces in the case of Argentina and one colony less in the case of Spain it would make my life quite easier for certain.

For Spain it shouldn't be that much of a loss since Uruguay has no coast? I mean how are you supposed to get there or get out of there? As for Paraguay, think about it, you'll be getting a large buffer state between yourself and the massive Communist threat to the north.

I on the other hand will be getting a further reason to move my industries further north and into the interior...

[Thanas]

Right it is the full coast of what ever you actually want. I let the language be to loose, Sorry.

Fixed. Though Thanas, how much of Duala do you have? If too small you might not see it on the map.

Just the city and the port.

[Steve]

For Spain it shouldn't be that much of a loss since Uruguay has no coast? I mean how are you supposed to get there or get out of there? As for Paraguay, think about it, you'll be getting a large buffer state between yourself and the massive Communist threat to the north.

I on the other hand will be getting a further reason to move my industries further north and into the interior...

*Gibbs-smacks Norseman on the head*

You fail Geography.

Paraguay is the landlocked nation. Uruguay has a coast, in fact its capital Montevideo is also its main port.

And got that, Thanas.

[Zor]

Hey Stas, are you going to be playing as stroke free Lenin?

Zor

[K. A. Pital]

Hey Stas, are you going to be playing as stroke free Lenin?

Nop. Lenin still dies (except the shooter is not Kaplan but a hidden monarchist). End of 1924 is the year of change. There wouldn't be a single leader in the USSR either, I'd believe. More like a junta.

[Norseman]

Hey Stas, are you going to be playing as stroke free Lenin?

Nop. Lenin still dies (except the shooter is not Kaplan but a hidden monarchist). End of 1924 is the year of change. There wouldn't be a single leader in the USSR either, I'd believe. More like a junta.

And Trotsky? Beria? Lazar Kaganovich?

BTW does anyone have a problem with Antonio Gramsci emigrating to Brazil? I think he has the... right stuff

[Norseman]

For Spain it shouldn't be that much of a loss since Uruguay has no coast? I mean how are you supposed to get there or get out of there? As for Paraguay, think about it, you'll be getting a large buffer state between yourself and the massive Communist threat to the north.

I on the other hand will be getting a further reason to move my industries further north and into the interior...

*Gibbs-smacks Norseman on the head*

You fail Geography.

Paraguay is the landlocked nation. Uruguay has a coast, in fact its capital Montevideo is also its main port.

Bah! Thing is I kind of want a buffer zone against Argentina, if I'm to give up those three provinces at the very least I should only be bordering *one* other country. If on the other hand the Argentines (and to a lesser extent Spain) won't give up that land I would personally much rather have my buffer zone to protect from Argentina invasion.