SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Erm... those statistics of your Praetor-class DGN are accurate? The numbers seem a little bit sparse... 128 VLSes? But those are the larger ones for the S-500F?

(I am modeling my future Constellation-class after your Praetor a bit, btw)

EDIT:

I picked the wrong name. Constitution-class was the Star Trek ship, god damn it. Not Constellation. Fuck.

Would you mind looking at the stats i posted on the usergroup....

[Shroom Man 777]

Ah. I was using information from your post at the OOB thread... silly me.

EDIT:

Editted my thread offering the Constellation-class to the Langleys. Modified the number of VLS.

[Ice]

Deal.

If I take a 3rd and 4th one off your hands, will you push the price down to 1.75 per unit?

Actually, I have only 2 STAR DDGNs, unless you want the CGNs which are much larger at 28,000 tonnes with 312 VLS cells

You have STAR CGNs? How many and how much? And got stats for them handy, since I believe you modified them?

Paying you money to take off your hands what you were gonna gut anyway. Signs of reconciliation, perhaps?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

You have STAR CGNs? How many and how much? And got stats for them handy, since I believe you modified them?

Paying you money to take off your hands what you were gonna gut anyway. Signs of reconciliation, perhaps?

I have two... ah.. I guess I could sell them off for 2.8-3 billion. Note that mine are larger and do away with 1 of the 203mm AGS guns, with 312 VLS units. About 16 point defence weapons. It maintains 33knots, with two turbines driving 50MWt each for back up power. It also has 8 533mm torpedo tubes.

Yeah, maybe signs of reconciliation.... reduction of tensions maybe

[Ice]

I have two... ah.. I guess I could sell them off for 2.8-3 billion. Note that mine are larger and do away with 1 of the 203mm AGS guns.

I could make a SAG out of 'em or something. Or make them really expensive testbeds since they're bigger. Or something. We'll see.

Yeah, maybe signs of reconciliation.... reduction of tensions maybe

Reduction of tensions indeed. In a typically convoluted way, one of the hallmarks of politics, you could see it as the "refund" you wanted for giving back STAR. Even though we're not calling it that.

[RogueIce]

How much does a Contradiction class cost, and just how customizable is it? For instance, can I exchange the twin 150mm gun for a dual-mounted 5"/54 caliber Mark 45 or configure the VLS to launch SM-3/4s and Tomahawks in addition to S-500s and Kh-101s?

I have my Athena-class CGNs which are basically nuclear powered Ticos. So you wouldn't have compatability problems there. And they're ready to go now, plus fit in better with your generally Western/NATO equipped military. Or you can take the regular conventional Ticos, whichever you prefer. They're both fairly modernized as well, though neither are STAR capable because I didn't upgrade them with that. So typical AEGIS.

MariusRoi
I put up an expected price in here before for F-35Bs. Did you see it or should I go dig it out again?

EDIT: Also, Fin, do you have a "local" name for your F100 frigates, and a hull number for the lead ships so we can post it here? A national flag would also be handy at some point.

[DarthShady]

I think I'm getting the hang of this wiki shit. The beginning of a UCSR page is up.

[phongn]

Is Stanislev going to visit the IRT or something? Should I roll out the red carpet?

[DarthShady]

Is Stanislev going to visit the IRT or something? Should I roll out the red carpet?

Since almost everybody else is in Cascadia, I would say that's a likely bet.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

EDIT: Also, Fin, do you have a "local" name for your F100 frigates, and a hull number for the lead ships so we can post it here? A national flag would also be handy at some point.

Hmm.. Decurion class then.

[TimothyC]

MariusRoi
I put up an expected price in here before for F-35Bs. Did you see it or should I go dig it out again?

Yep. I figure roughly 10 billion for 75 planes, and 5 years of service/training.

[Steve]

Czech, you explained away the carriers as being contracted to Tonkin to build using stolen designs from Tian Jiao/Westchester, but you're also funding two 5th Gen fighter designs? The point's been made that Iran's funding a 5th Gen fighter, but they're only going for one so far and they have an economy over twice your size.

I had two going on, granted, but my economy is over three times your size, I have an advanced aerospace industry recognized around the world for its quality and technical capability, and I had a miniscule RCAF for over a decade to cover the enormous R&D costs (until the game began, frankly, since almost out of the gate I wound up eyeing Japanistan nervously and having to raise defense spending).

You do have a point that we all play a little loose with the rules on military size and budget compared to economic capability, but you're starting to go a bit beyond loose. Those carriers are still going to cost you a pretty penny, even if you outsourced their construction and some maintainance to the IRT. Running concurrent 5th Gen fighter R&D is going to be very costly as well.

[K. A. Pital]

Being fair to Czech, he can "announce" the fighter projects, but in reality what will fly is most likely to be a single Shafaq or something like that. Unless, of course, he goes for "Tian Xia puppet 2.0" and tries to steal designs from them in exchange for undying loyalty. Wait, we've seen that already. Anyway, talk and flight are different things. So until he posts "I have uber Raptorx Hax!", it's nothing.

Is Stanislev going to visit the IRT or something?

Most definetely. Also, I'll do it in an unofficial fashion. Remember, I don't have any ranks as a UCSR official. I'm just a retired President

[Steve]

IIRC even retired heads of state are eligible for some perks and bits of protocol.

And I was more pointing out the costs of running two 5th Gen fighter design programs and how much money it'd be to a country with a GDP of <$400B. If Czech wants to bankrupt Emmeria to have two 5th Gen fighter designs, that's his call, but I do want the costs recognized.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Seeing as the vast majority of my kit is standard MESS issue, it'll be a major headache to bring it all to compliance with CATO standards. With that said...

Chances are I'll be going STOVL.

-snip pic-
Can be aquired El Cheapo. I think about 2x squadrons of Yak-141 STOVL have been retired with the Moskva helicarrier cruisers. Shady never got to describe what happened with them, so they're probably still not sold from the UCSR inventory...

can I exchange the twin 150mm gun for a dual-mounted 5"/54 caliber Mark 45

Caliber: 152mm (versus 127mm for the Mark45 Mod4)
ROF: 16 RPM
Max distance with ordinary shells: 40 km, with ERGM analogues: 100+ km.

So all in all, I don't see the system being anyhow inferior to the Mark45 Mod4. As for dual-barrel mounting the Mark 45, I don't think there exist such examples, in this world as well. I may be wrong, but even Tonkinese engineers don't do that.

Also, keep in mind that CATO shell production lines will make shells cheaper if we get larger order. If we don't, you'll be wasting money on buying shells from Tonkin or the MESS.

I wanted to get some of Siege's own Yak-141s when he retired them, but he never got back to me. Maybe I'll take them from you; how many do you have available, and how much do they cost?

Also, I may consider removing the Mark 45s and Otobreda 76mm guns from my existing Álvaro de Bazáns and Sachsens and replacing them with 152mm or 155mm guns to help bring them in line with CATO standards.

I already gave him 2 Kirovs! I have no CGNs other than the new ones now.

There are 11 CGs of the Ticonderonga class which are currently sitting in the yards awaiting either scrapping or selling. I plan to sell off 3 KDX-III destroyers per year.

I have my Athena-class CGNs which are basically nuclear powered Ticos. So you wouldn't have compatability problems there. And they're ready to go now, plus fit in better with your generally Western/NATO equipped military. Or you can take the regular conventional Ticos, whichever you prefer. They're both fairly modernized as well, though neither are STAR capable because I didn't upgrade them with that. So typical AEGIS.

Eleven Ticos, you say? How much for each ship, and can I have the Mark 45s replaced with 152mm or 155mm guns? Also, how many KDX-IIIs have already been retired and are currently waiting for buyers?

Alternately, how much would an Athena cost? I might be able to modify them to CATO standards after I get them.

@ Langley:

Shroomania will have, by the year 2020, a new large destroyer armed with many missiles.

Namely:

CONSTELLATION-class: Stealthy nuclear-powered destroyer with non-magnetic hull

Displacement: 17,000 tons

Armament:

192x VLS cells capable of firing S-500-C and the S-500-D/E missiles, and various cruise missiles such as Kh-101 and medium cruise missiles. Diameter approximately ~.8m, hot packing of as many as 6 S-500-C missiles. 1 S-500-D/E missile per cell.
6x 533mm torpedo tubes
2x Goalkeeper CIWS
2x RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile launcher
2x 20mm machine guns
2x ASW Helo
2x SHEL laser cannon
+ Surface Ship Torpedo Defense for hard and soft kill torpedo defense
using decoys and counter torpedoes

EW Systems

* APAR-1 radar system, w/ APAR-MFR-1 X-Band Radar, and the APAR-
VSR-1 S-Band Radar
* Sonar:
o HF and MF Sonar Array (Conformal arrays and bow array)
o Multifunction Towed Sonar Array/Ultra Low Frequency Active Sonar Array
o Integrated Undersea Warfare system for mine avoidance and submarine warfare, and anti-torpedo system
* Electro-Optical/Infrared System
* Integrated S-500F combat system
* Integrated Torpedo defence system
* ECCM/ECM/Nulka decoys & AN/SLQ-25 Nixie
* UAV control stations
* SRBOC launchers

Hull (nonmagnetic)

* Propulsion: Nuclear with electric drive (~200,000 hp for up to 35 knots)
* Backup power: 2 turbines delivering 30MWt each
* total displacement estimated ~ 17,000 tonnes
* Hanger and landing pad for two helicopters and UAV launch
stations
* Cost estimated ~ 2-3 billion (initially)

When the time comes, I may be open to acquiring a few Constellations.

[Shroom Man 777]

We should also get a silly sycophant to run midget nations in Frequesue or in archipelagos to ruin them before voluntarily ceding them to CATO.

[Coyote]

We need more NPC nations, and we need them played neutrally.

Also, once I get the Ford-class carriers I'll be selling off my 'Triton'/Kuznetsovs.

[RogueIce]

Alternately, how much would an Athena cost? I might be able to modify them to CATO standards after I get them.

Not sure. A regular VLS Tico was apparently $1 billion back in the day, but since these have reactors they doubtless cost more. Anyone have any ideas on that? Once I get an idea on how much they cost at the start I can think up something for them to cost used.

Numbers of Athenas are relatively limited. I can probably sell up to maybe three, possibly increasing to four by the end of the year. I have to go and check my numbers of new STAR CGNs to be sure. Ticos are somewhat more plentiful in that regard.

EDIT:

We should also get a silly sycophant to run midget nations in Frequesue or in archipelagos to ruin them before voluntarily ceding them to CATO.

Say what?

[Shroom Man 777]

I'm joking about Czech.

[Raj Ahten]

We need more NPC nations, and we need them played neutrally.
.

Neutral as they role-play their own interests believably and/or they are politically neutral and don't belong to CATO or the MESS?

I don't think many nation would be in the latter category given this world's two grand alliance structure. It's kind of like the Cold War; most nations are on one side or the other as there are significant advantages to becoming a member of the two big clubs on the block. Not joining one could also be quite hazardous given the militaristic tendencies of nations like Japanistan and others.

[Shroom Man 777]

That's rich, coming from you.

[Steve]

Cascadia's faring quite well as a neutral state with friendly ties to members of both alliances.

[RogueIce]

That's rich, coming from you.

In fairness though, look what happened when he and Tian Xia had conflicting interests: it could have gone nuclear. He even had to accept the IRT, albeit a bit grudgingly.

While I doubt little NPCs would actually join CATO or MESS (why would we offer them full membership?) though there probably would be some of them going with one group or the other, semi-officially (hey look, they offered us bases! and so on).

They can probably stay neutral, though, assuming the MESS, CATO (or even individual members of said alliances, whether or not the others back them up), the IRT or Japanistan doesn't at some point turn their attention towards the little NPCs. At that point they'd have some tough choices to make.

Cascadia's faring quite well as a neutral state with friendly ties to members of both alliances.

Indeed. Though you have some special circumstances that Asscrackistan over in Random NPC Continent (assuming anyone takes the idea of Q-ing one in, or maybe Veleria just gets more 'civilized') wouldn't have.

[K. A. Pital]

Maybe I'll take them from you; how many do you have available, and how much do they cost?

They should cost around ~$20-25 million, the UCSR should have 2x squadrons (20 planes) of Yak-41M (the upgraded, serial production of Yak-141) retired right now due to the retirement of Moskva-class helicopter carriers (hulls had a lifetime of 2010s something-1970 = 40+ years). The Yak-141s were first commissioned into Naval Aviation in 1993 or thereabout, and have very little flight time due to the fact that Moskva class helicarriers mostly patrolled the Mediterranean and close to home shores, rarely operating the Yak-41M (which is also quite expensive). No extreme North patrols, so the planes should be in a fine condition.

Their only full carrier CAP mission has been the voyage to the AFSR during the conflict with Tian Xia in... was it 2008? Yeah.

With the MiG-LFI small 5-gen entering service, and the UCSR as a whole going away from STOVL craft in favour of fulldeck carrier oceanic Navy, there would be another 20 Yak-41Ms retired very soon as they are replaced by the MiG-LFI on the Kiev class carriers. The price would be the same.

Also, none of the 1123 Moskva class helicarriers are actually scrapped - both can serve a further 10 years with a good SLEP, like the French did for Jeanne D'Arc R97. If you need very cheap STOVL platforms, Moskva class are still in the UCSR's drydocks.

Just ask Shady at what price he'd be selling; my take is that each helicarrier for a billion, SLEP overhaul included, is not a bad call.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Er... I fail to see how corruption could be gotten rid off in Klavostan magically. A culture of corruption is hard to deal with, Even in a corporate state like IRT, penny pinching by accountants and creative accounting ought to be not unheard of, to be frank, no matter how strict the accounting rules are, or the punishment. Just look at China where graft is often resulting in a firing squad.

Also, I doubt the locals will just disappear when they were told by the Sultan of Syria to reject foreign influence and to govern themselves.