SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Er... I fail to see how corruption could be gotten rid off in Klavostan magically. A culture of corruption is hard to deal with, Even in a corporate state like IRT, penny pinching by accountants and creative accounting ought to be not unheard of, to be frank, no matter how strict the accounting rules are, or the punishment. Just look at China where graft is often resulting in a firing squad.

Also, I doubt the locals will just disappear quietly and not resist when they discover their government isn't their own. Is the country Muslim? Because the Sultan of Syria made some notes and grumbled loudly about foreign interference.

[phongn]

Er... I fail to see how corruption could be gotten rid off in Klavostan magically. A culture of corruption is hard to deal with, Even in a corporate state like IRT, penny pinching by accountants and creative accounting ought to be not unheard of, to be frank, no matter how strict the accounting rules are, or the punishment. Just look at China where graft is often resulting in a firing squad.

It's a long-term project.

[Raj Ahten]

That's rich, coming from you.

Well as Rogue Ice pointed out I go it alone at some rather extreme peril. I doubt many nations would be willing to acept the kind of risk my population is.

Edit:

Er... I fail to see how corruption could be gotten rid off in Klavostan magically. A culture of corruption is hard to deal with, Even in a corporate state like IRT, penny pinching by accountants and creative accounting ought to be not unheard of, to be frank, no matter how strict the accounting rules are, or the punishment. Just look at China where graft is often resulting in a firing squad.

It's a long-term project.

To be fair to Phongn here so far the mercs are on board with the project. They have total control over security contracts which has been the traditional form of wealth generation in Klavostan. I'd expect real fireworks once Tonkin's plan to marginalize the mercs really gets going. They aren't just going to sit on their ass while everyone else is rolling in new wealth.

Actually here's some ideas about Klavostan I've been mulling over that could help to explain the traditional way things are run there. My main premise is the the mercenary captains and their individual companies own a lot of land (Perhaps half of the country) inside Klavostan which they bought up with the proceeds of the national industry. I'd think the sultan would also own a large amount (a third or so of the country including parks, etc.) of land, but a state where the mercenary army dwarfs the real army wouldn't exist without the mercs having a lot of power. With all their land the merc captains act as landlords and patrons of their troops; giving them loans when they need them , guaranteeing money for a mercs family if they die and so forth. I figure most of the heavy gear might also be owned by the captain's companies as I don't see individuals owning and maintaining tanks.

Meanwhile some of the land (the last sixth) would belong to small landowners such as traditional farmers or whatever and lower level mercs that have purchased their own land.

The interesting part here is that when Tonkin comes in they would still have to deal with the merc captains as they are the biggest private land owners. They would likely see Tonkin's entry into Klavostan as a great way to make lot of money on land deals and development contracts. Thus even if the system changes away from the merc economy the same people would still have a lot of influence.

This result would be a double edged sword for Indhopal. The good side is hopefully the number of mercs (along with all the shenanigans they get involved in) will shrink as other economic opportunities are made available. The bad side is Tonkin's influence over Klavostan would only grow as time went on.

Finally if the game goes long enough seeing what the 2 year old sultan does when he grows up would be quite interesting.

[DarthShady]

Just ask Shady at what price he'd be selling; my take is that each helicarrier for a billion, SLEP overhaul included, is not a bad call.

This price is fine by me. Langley if you want them, they're yours.

Also: The conference is kinda dragging on. Perhaps we should move it to unreal time? Or at least speed things up a bit.

[Ryan Thunder]

Czech, you explained away the carriers as being contracted to Tonkin to build using stolen designs from Tian Jiao/Westchester, but you're also funding two 5th Gen fighter designs? The point's been made that Iran's funding a 5th Gen fighter, but they're only going for one so far and they have an economy over twice your size.

I had two going on, granted, but my economy is over three times your size, I have an advanced aerospace industry recognized around the world for its quality and technical capability, and I had a miniscule RCAF for over a decade to cover the enormous R&D costs (until the game began, frankly, since almost out of the gate I wound up eyeing Japanistan nervously and having to raise defense spending).

You do have a point that we all play a little loose with the rules on military size and budget compared to economic capability, but you're starting to go a bit beyond loose. Those carriers are still going to cost you a pretty penny, even if you outsourced their construction and some maintainance to the IRT. Running concurrent 5th Gen fighter R&D is going to be very costly as well.

This needs to be sorted out now, before the fucker gets any ideas.

[Coyote]

The Klavostani mercs are (or have been) probably paid in land and maybe even titles, lest their pay bankrupt the nation. Some of them may now really be petit-nobility unto themselves.

[Master_Baerne]

Why would Klavostan be paying their own mercs?

[Ryan Thunder]

Why would Klavostan be paying their own mercs?

The same reason you pay your own government employees; so they have an incentive to actually work for you instead of slacking off...

[Master_Baerne]

You've a point there.

[RogueIce]

Also: The conference is kinda dragging on. Perhaps we should move it to unreal time? Or at least speed things up a bit.

Yeah, that's a given, since every RL day is 12 game days, IIRC. So that means, miss a weekend? About a month has passed. I think it should generally be understood that everything goes into Unreal Time, unless every single conflict lasts a month...or more. Even for single battles.

It makes keeping track of who did what when interesting, to say the least.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The trouble is that a lot of things will be held up by an otherwise pretty important conference. Say another misunderstanding could have been prevented if the conference came to a meaningful end with many mechanisms in place to prevent the said misunderstanding from happening.

This is a bit of saying that the "speed of light is faster than sound", if you get what I am saying. The rate at which the conference is progressing, we might only be done towards the end of the game year. You have some very feisty players around, and I shall not mention names.

[RogueIce]

The trouble is that a lot of things will be held up by an otherwise pretty important conference. Say another misunderstanding could have been prevented if the conference came to a meaningful end with many mechanisms in place to prevent the said misunderstanding from happening.

This is a bit of saying that the "speed of light is faster than sound", if you get what I am saying. The rate at which the conference is progressing, we might only be done towards the end of the game year. You have some very feisty players around, and I shall not mention names.

True. I mean hell, what if we had been slower during the whole Byzantium/MESS thing, and the conference went on, under the assumption you were still a dual member.

Awkward!

[DarthShady]

As far as I am concerned it's in unreal time and I'm back in Stasograd. I have business to attend to.

Besides keeping track of Unreal time is hilariously entertaining. Just read some of Shrooms posts.

[RogueIce]

As far as I am concerned it's in unreal time and I'm back in Stasograd. I have business to attend to.

Indeed. The conference is either already over, or at the least the various world leaders went back and were replaced by ministers and the like. Except perhaps for Steve, who could still show up (if with less frequency) because he's at 'home' anyway.

Which means that, odds are there's some new dynamic in place, whether for the better...or for the worse. Say we wind up in shouting matches and nothing gets done? Plus there's Indhopal's and San Dorado's little sidebar, which may or may not end well, depending on whether either side gets a good compromise. My proposed ISCA thing, Coyote's proposed UN...etc.

And none of us know how it's turned out yet! Which makes things interesting, to say the least.

I suppose if there's an SDN World 3 (possible) we should slow time down a bit. Not to real time, because that would take fucking forever. But maybe 2 months per year or something like that. But then there would be quite a bit of things to rework for any potential SDN World 3.

[Coyote]

I always assume conferences are in Unreal Time from the get-go. But we do need to either shit or get off the pot. I've proposed a UN, bear in mind it doesn't have to be a mirror copy of the organization by the same name here on Earth ( ) but it does allow us to use all the nifty photos available in Google Images that have UN logos on them for operations around the world .

A new ISCA would be waycool. I miss some of the more fun stuff and grand engineering projects and experimental boldness of the old version. This one is more srs-bznzz. Kinda grumpy, in fact.

I need to get back to "Land of the LOST".

[Ryan Thunder]

I suppose if there's an SDN World 3 (possible) we should slow time down a bit. Not to real time, because that would take fucking forever. But maybe 2 months per year or something like that. But then there would be quite a bit of things to rework for any potential SDN World 3.

Yeah, I'm working on a map that actually has polar ice caps, a pre-set geography (makes transportation and land-based infrastructure easier to work out), and more continents to fool around with. This business of having less than 30% of the surface above sea level puts an unreasonably heavy emphasis on very expensive naval assets, which only further handicaps new players.

It also doesn't resemble the present one in the slightest, because the present one is boring and misleading in its scale, IMHO.

[Shroom Man 777]

A new ISCA would be waycool. I miss some of the more fun stuff and grand engineering projects and experimental boldness of the old version.

We can always build an obscene bridge connecting Shroomania and Canissia.

This one is more srs-bznzz. Kinda grumpy, in fact.

Well, that's definitely not my fault. Hell, PeZook takes the prize by taking my mad schemes for Moonbeam and running with it. I never knew he had it in him!

I need to get back to "Land of the LOST".

THE HATCH! BLEEP! BLEEP! BLEEP! NUMBERS! OTHERS! JIN! [asian accent]UDDERS[/asian accent] BLACK SMOKE MONSTER!

[PeZook]

Hey, I'm back! Whaddya know

Coyote: What about that no-cost loan I offered S'Vimbi on jet trainers and airbase construction?

We also mentioned PeZookia will train pilots for free, though you got us on the whole spare parts thingie

[Coyote]

Hey, I'm back! Whaddya know

Coyote: What about that no-cost loan I offered S'Vimbi on jet trainers and airbase construction?

We also mentioned PeZookia will train pilots for free, though you got us on the whole spare parts thingie

We've already got them covered on trainers and airbases, but having someone else train that many pilots will be welcome.

Although... if you wanted to go in with us on simulators, that'd be just dandy!

[Ryan Thunder]

Speaking of maps;



And


EDIT: What can I say? It was a loong day!

[DarthShady]

Indeed. The conference is either already over, or at the least the various world leaders went back and were replaced by ministers and the like. Except perhaps for Steve, who could still show up (if with less frequency) because he's at 'home' anyway.

Which means that, odds are there's some new dynamic in place, whether for the better...or for the worse. Say we wind up in shouting matches and nothing gets done? Plus there's Indhopal's and San Dorado's little sidebar, which may or may not end well, depending on whether either side gets a good compromise. My proposed ISCA thing, Coyote's proposed UN...etc.

The question is what happens now? Or better yet, who makes the next move at the conference? Perhaps we hold a vote on the UN thing? Start wrapping things up.

And none of us know how it's turned out yet! Which makes things interesting, to say the least.

I wouldn't worry about that. You see Comrade Ice, [Reveals the time machine] time is on our side.

P.S. Ryan, Nice Work. Now you need to make a world map and mark the nations.

[Karmic Knight]

Speaking of maps;

The Vinish Mountain Arrangement is all wrong, mountains cover the borders between both Mirata and Baerne, and a strech of smaller mountains, rough hills really, cover the interior areas. between Eutopia and the Vineyards.

edit: The map looks nice though, don't think that it isn't good, it is just inaccurate in some spots.

[Master_Baerne]

Excellent work on the map, Ryan...But isn't that a bit too mountainous for one continent?

[Coyote]

It must have been left in the dryer overnight. Happens to my shirts like that all the time.

Cool work, though. What program is that?

[Ryan Thunder]

Speaking of maps;

The Vinish Mountain Arrangement is all wrong, mountains cover the borders between both Mirata and Baerne, and a strech of smaller mountains, rough hills really, cover the interior areas. between Eutopia and the Vineyards.

Yeah, I know. I used a random fractal generator to get it to look believable and that was what came out. I can't seem to reproduce the effect with any sort of reliability using a brush, so it'll be impossiblekind of hard to get it looking exactly how you like.

I'll see if I can tweak it to be more accurate while still looking believable.

Also, the map is exaggerrated.

edit: The map looks nice though, don't think that it isn't good, it is just inaccurate in some spots.

Oh, yeah, I welcome valid and constructive criticism. It's not like you called me names or anything.

It must have been left in the dryer overnight. Happens to my shirts like that all the time.

Cool work, though. What program is that?

I believe it's called "Wilbur".

In fact, it is called "Wilbur". I got it from here.

Its pretty nifty, but its also pretty buggy, just to warn you.