SDN World 3 Commentary Thread II

[Ryan Thunder]

Obviously it would take up resources, but just how huge a portion would depend entirely on the scale of the works.

Indeed. Just now I was thinking of rails on solid concrete platforms with a trapezoidal cross-section down to the bedrock. How big a deal would that be?

[Beowulf]

So...any comment on my troop reinforcement schedule?

I don't think you should be figuring on the entire 60day period, but only the time after the mods gave control to you (about D+40). Also, I've been limited to 1 divison/day on each of my major lines (that are dual tracked). Since the TSR at that point was largely single tracked, you should be getting half that at best, not even counting the extra rolling stock required. A brigade per day is a likely throughput for the TSR.

A brigade per day is well below the number of troops being deployed by the later phase of the Russo-Japanese war (which amounted to about 50,000 per week) and this has been 2 decades in the past.

35k vs 50k troops? Meh, it's alot closer of an estimate than 2 div/day. Given the lack of available resource in the Soviet East, it'd doubtful they'd have put much to improving the TSR to the point that they could exceed the 50k troops/week value. So probably around one div/2 days is a good value for planning.

[RogueIce]

You all did read the post where I stated these OOC arguments with each other were a waste of time, right? In fairness to Siege I'll allow he could well have been addressing us (though it's probably easier to do so by PM; at least that way we get a notice about it) but the rest of you are wasting your time.

EDIT: So originally I said "OOC arguments over mod rulings" but I took out the mod rulings part. OOC arguments with each other in general are a waste of time. You think someone's doing something they shouldn't? Address it to the mods, not each other.

In other mod news, it has been brought to our attention that people are building aircraft that should not be in service. To wit: the first flight (as indicated in Wikipedia, which is the easiest way to look this up) is in a year where somebody's Air Tech should not allow it, or even being built ahead of when it was historically done.

This has been done more than once, sadly. And so we reached a decision: you need to include model years for your aircraft now. Fighter 1925; Medium Bomber 1921; things like that. If you want to have model names and designations have fun with that, though it's largely fluff information. We need those model years; anything else is secondary. So please update your Q4 queues accordingly, and we'd appreciate it if you'd also do so for your OOBs.

Simply put, the mods don't want to enter all the aircraft we see into Wikipedia to check on people. That's way too much tedium. And since this has happened more than once, well, we just want to nip it in the bud now. Sorry for those to whom this brings upon extra work, but as the saying goes: the actions of a few spoil it for the many.

If you happen to recognize that you are one of those I'm talking about about above, don't waste your time (and ours) trying to justify it. Especially not here in OOC. The ruling is what it is.

As for the rest, well I for one have been busy the past couple days. So I'm trying to get caught up. But this was brought upon by something that happened a few days ago, and then I see another PM about somebody doing it again. So we'd pretty well decided a few days ago we should go ahead with this, and I'm posting about it now because we saw it happen again.

[Siege]

In fairness to Siege I'll allow he could well have been addressing us (though it's probably easier to do so by PM; at least that way we get a notice about it) but the rest of you are wasting your time.

I was addressing an issue brought up by Ryan; but since said issue was something the moderators apparently decided on I guess I was addressing you as well. I would imagine, by the way, that in a situation like this it's just plain easier to address said issue in this thread -- I could either have a PM conversation with Ryan on the subject, and then forward you the whole conversation... Or I could just raise the issue here and ask "what's up with that". I imagine the latter gets the job done faster.

This has been done more than once, sadly. And so we reached a decision: you need to include model years for your aircraft now. Fighter 1925; Medium Bomber 1921; things like that. If you want to have model names and designations have fun with that, though it's largely fluff information. We need those model years; anything else is secondary. So please update your Q4 queues accordingly, and we'd appreciate it if you'd also do so for your OOBs.

Wait, let me get this straight. Instead of telling me what fighters and bombers I can and cannot have, you want me to... go through the trouble to designate which year the fighter comes from and then you will tell me which I can and cannot have? For God's sake... Honestly, I like this game, but the fucking minutiae bullshit is killing it for me inch by freaking inch.

[Steve]

Or, alternatively, you can just list something like this:

100 1922 Fighters
40 1924 Fighters
20 1925 Fighters
80 1923 Bombers
100 1923 Fighter-Bombers

No looking on wiki, no boring minutiae.

[Siege]

Yeah, except it's a little late for that, isn't it? I've already spent a good deal of time looking for what specific fighters I want for my air force, and now I have to do it all over again because you want me to frickin' list the damned year it went into service. Well screw that, I'm quite done wasting time on these endless goddamn details. If you want to invalidate my OOB or something you can figure it out for yourselves. Frankly the moment it turned out the ship design thread saw more activity than the story thread should've been a sign of the times anyway.

[RogueIce]

Or, alternatively, you can just list something like this:

100 1922 Fighters
40 1924 Fighters
20 1925 Fighters
80 1923 Bombers
100 1923 Fighter-Bombers

No looking on wiki, no boring minutiae.

That's actually what I was talking about. I guess I wasn't as clear as I'd hoped to be, though.

Yeah, except it's a little late for that, isn't it? I've already spent a good deal of time looking for what specific fighters I want for my air force, and now I have to do it all over again because you want me to frickin' list the damned year it went into service. Well screw that, I'm quite done wasting time on these endless goddamn details. If you want to invalidate my OOB or something you can figure it out for yourselves. Frankly the moment it turned out the ship design thread saw more activity than the story thread should've been a sign of the times anyway.

All if takes really is to go look at the year it went in service or even just the "First flight" if you want, which is over in a nice infobox on Wiki. For instance, something like this:

Fighters
84 Fokker D.VIII (1918)
400 Fokker D.XIV (1925)
336 Avia BH-21 (1925)
320 Gloster Grebe (1923)

And yes, I know it's a bunch of extra work to do. And for that I'm sorry. But we saw somebody trying to introduce aircraft models that weren't around until the 1930's in a construction queue. So, yeah...I'm sorry, but honestly it is easier to have people do it themselves, rather than having three mods look up everybody's aircraft on Wikipedia.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

You know, I have to agree with Siege. This game is like dying by the sheer amount of minutiae, and the activity in the story thread has gone quite a lot down compared to previous times.

[Thanas]

So...any comment on my troop reinforcement schedule?

I don't think you should be figuring on the entire 60day period, but only the time after the mods gave control to you (about D+40).

No, it is extremely unlikely that Stas would not have made heavy reinforcements immediately and if you want to I can get him to confirm it.

So probably around one div/2 days is a good value for planning.

Agreed, I'll use that.

[Ryan Thunder]

You know, I have to agree with Siege. This game is like dying by the sheer amount of minutiae, and the activity in the story thread has gone quite a lot down compared to previous times.

I think that after trying this for a bit it seems to me that the minutae was less important when we were playing in a modern/postmodern setting. In SDNW2 I managed to fudge out a decent army with virtually zero technical knowledge. Things here are quite a bit less forgiving unless you happen to know, well, lots.

Case in point; my goddamned navy!

I also have the US Army Field Manuals bookmarked now, so making a modern force is even easier.

[Ryan Thunder]

Oh, and I can't do tickers in this period.

[Thanas]

Sure you can. Tickers were commonplace back then and infact one of the preferred methods of communication for the German general staff.

[Ryan Thunder]

Well, okay, but I can pretty much guarantee you that any sort of bizarre and/or amusing weapons system I concieve of will probably be utterly buried under a mountain of hindsight.

Remotely operated submarine torpedo launchers.
Torpedo-launching marine fortifications.
A biplane with a mortar on it.
An infantry tank with a 20 mm gatling gun.
Very large submarines with gun batteries and their own recon planes.

Case in point; I was frankly rather delighted to discover that somebody in the first world had actually built a submarine cruiser. I thought "Hey the French built it, and they had a functional military. I know it might not be the best idea but they wouldn't have gone ahead with it if it was a terrible one, either, and it's cool, so I'll just accept that there will be some problems and I'll have to replace them with something more effective later." Then some dude Steve found told us that it totally sucked and even a single contemporary destroyer could render it useless. Of course, this caused my situation to go from having a NF 3 navy where only 50% of my fleet was actually useful to a NF 3 navy where less than 10% of my fleet was actually useful. So those three points I put into having an effective navy were for shit, and Wilkens got to laugh all the way to my shores because he took the pedant's route* and cribbed existing designs.

And so on, and so forth.

I think I got away with it in SDNW2 because we genuinely didn't know what these systems would do beyond the obvious stuff. I mean, something like a landship has obvious weaknesses. My gigantic nuclear-powered air defense planes had their own point defense and EW systems; besides the cost of such a system, you can't just point to some existing example and say "that sucks for some obscure reason, and we know because we tried it already; you lose totally."

*Just for the record, I don't have anything against you personally Wilkens; you just did what you figured would work, after all. I was trying to do the same, but I was also trying to avoid a cookie-cutter military because frankly those just seem boring to me.

[Norseman]

A professional military might very well build something that is absolutely idiotic, something which makes people break out in gales of laughter decades later, but they never build more than one or two of them. Why is that so? Because untill you've built and tested a prototype you don't know if a concept works or not. Cookie cutter militaries may be boring, but they *work*, that is why I directly copied the United States Navy as well as a standard, fairly bland, divisional system. If you want to do something other than a cookie cutter nation you need to have a nigh rainman like knowledge of 1920s militaria, or you're going to screw up badly.

[MKSheppard]

If we have to list our air force year, and then balance that against our air tech, fuck that.

Isn't there a Shepistani CVAN floating around the timestream as a result of a Final Countdown-esque thing I pulled back in the day with one of my ships?

[CmdrWilkens]

Making something of a counter-point. The French though the Surcoff WOULD work. Part of the problem here is that we have hindsight so its kinda tough to make the same mistakes folks in this period made. Take the US torpedo detonator issue, none of us wants a non-functional detonator but a realistic portrayal of our militaries should have some colossal fuck ups occur somewhere. I honestly though my lack of escort ships would screw me over and my only real saving grace would be that wolf-pack-like tactics are probably more than could be handled right now.

Basically without bringing up some other e.g. my point is that planners fuck up. They come up with great ideas that turn out to be either occasionally fucked beyond belief, frequently misguided, often useful or rarely brilliant in about those proportions.

[Steve]

Quick word to all, brother's here this weekend so I might be off doing things a bit more often. Though I'm still here on the overnights due to my distorted sleep routine.

[Steve]

Alright everyone, the main event is on!

Let's get ready to rumble!

Last night, roll for Wilkens' air power use:

[03:25] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[03:25] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 3 4 4
[03:26] sbbigsteve: 11. Average roll.
[03:26] sbbigsteve: I'd say some damage.
[03:28] sbbigsteve: Wilkens, we went to roll and stopped to clarify things.

How many units are you attacking with, Divisions and Corps? You seem to be planning a multi-day gradual assault against an enemy with numerical parity in formations (If not in troops due to Ryan's particular formation... which hurts in a way since his artillery fire will be quote ferocious) and we want to make sure of your intent. Your map is a bit.. clunky from the sheer size of your counters.

Oh, a roll of 11 for your air attacks. I'd say a few losses to his concentrated AA, you knock out some artillery. We'll consider a bonus to your attack rolls when the time comes.
[03:28] sbbigsteve: What I'm PMing him.
[03:30] MGillis123: Works for me.
[03:34] sbbigsteve: It was only an average roll, so I'd say a +1 to his attack when the time comes.
[03:35] MGillis123: Ok. +1 it is.

Then tonight, the main event rolls:

[21:47] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[21:47] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 3 4 5
[21:47] cmdrwilkens: 155s dedicated to counter-battery, 105s and 75s (divisional Arty BN) dedciated to cutting wire and clearing obstacles
[21:47] sbbigsteve: 12.
[21:47] cmdrwilkens: Average right?
[21:47] sbbigsteve: Slightly above average.
[21:47] sbbigsteve: 11 is the 50% roll.
[21:48] cmdrwilkens: Okay, yeah I'm looking for that chart in the OOC thread right now
[21:48] sbbigsteve: I remember the baseline for it, rolling 11 or lower is a 50% chance, thus it's the "average" threshold.
[21:49] cmdrwilkens: Got it...okay slightly better than average
[21:49] sbbigsteve: I believe it's page 29 in the OOC thread.
[21:49] sbbigsteve: We'll give a -1 to the upcoming Colombian arty suppression roll then.
[21:49] Sunhawk2: does that include the +1?
[21:50] Sunhawk2: that Wilkens is getting from his air superiority?
[21:50] sbbigsteve: Hrm.... The +1 had been meant for his land attack, not arty barrage.
[21:50] sbbigsteve: Since it also reflects his planes strafing enemy infantry when in the open.
[21:50] Sunhawk2: airborne spotting helps a great deal of help for artillery
[21:50] cmdrwilkens: The planes are mostly attackign Colombian Arty but my Recon planes are there solely for arty observation
[21:51] sbbigsteve: Hrm.
[21:51] cmdrwilkens: which is why I was wondering if there shoudl be a separte roll for suppression and observation
[21:51] sbbigsteve: Well, we just gave you your arty roll.
[21:51] sbbigsteve: The air roll was last night, 11 was the result.
[21:52] cmdrwilkens: Hey real quick the odds he gave were slighlty off, see thislink he gave on pg 29
[21:53] cmdrwilkens: 10 appears to be the 50% mark near as I can tell
[21:53] cmdrwilkens: Anyway so 11 would be for both suppression and arty spotting?
[21:54] sbbigsteve: Yes
[21:54] cmdrwilkens: Okay
[21:55] sbbigsteve: Hrm, your 12 roll is a 72% roll then.
[21:55] sbbigsteve: 74, sorry.
[21:55] cmdrwilkens: Still it woudl be a C in school
[21:55] sbbigsteve: Heh
[21:56] sbbigsteve: Well, we'll give a -1 to the Colombian arty suppression roll and a +1 to your attacks.

[22:00] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[22:00] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 6 1 4
[22:00] sbbigsteve: Colombian arty rolls 11, -1 from counterbattery fire. 10. Average roll.
[22:00] Sunhawk2: the single most hellish swamp/jungle on earth
[22:01] dagorladsurvivor: computer's acting funny, gotta restart
[22:01] cmdrwilkens: Apparently (per WIki) the unofficial "official" dish of Burma but I'm guessing that isn't what was being referenced
[22:01] sbbigsteve: ok
[22:01] sbbigsteve: Since it's a 50% roll, baseline, should I give any modifiers to the Mexican attack from Colombian arty?
[22:02] *** dagorladsurvivor has left the chat.
[22:02] sbbigsteve: If anything it'd be a -1 that nullifies the +1 from the positive arty.
[22:02] Sunhawk2: surprised there's not more online, it's basically where the US does jungle warfare training now
[22:02] sbbigsteve: Er, from the prior arty.
[22:02] Sunhawk2: with it being average no
[22:02] cmdrwilkens: I'd say I get a -1 jut from the number of his guns
[22:02] Sunhawk2: average is nothing special, no penalties, no bonuses
[22:02] cmdrwilkens: Average results from above average committment should get above average results
[22:02] sbbigsteve: Did give Wilkens here a +1 from his 11 rroll.
[22:03] sbbigsteve: Hrm. Logical, Wilkens.
[22:03] Sunhawk2: which is above average
[22:03] sbbigsteve: Okay, before we get to the moment of truth rolls....
[22:03] cmdrwilkens: So I get +1 from my arty, and -1 from his arty
[22:03] sbbigsteve: Anything I've missed/
[22:03] cmdrwilkens: His NGFS

[22:04] cmdrwilkens: The squadron at Ciudad needs to slip out without being spotted by my planes, spotted and engaged by my subs and/or spotted and engaged by my BBs
[22:05] cmdrwilkens: While he is close to his fort in order to be in position for NGFS he will either
[22:05] Sunhawk2: and the way he did his monitors they are short ranged, so not likely to contribute much unless they can get close in shore
[22:05] cmdrwilkens: A) Move close enough to the battle for LOS corrections (see above re Radios)
[22:05] sbbigsteve: Well, he's not exactly traveling far, and he's hugging the coast so a sub attack would be tricky IMHO.
[22:05] sbbigsteve: They are close to shore.
[22:06] sbbigsteve: And another group at the southwestern tip of Lake Gatun to provide NGFS to the northern flank.
[22:06] Sunhawk2: and how is he going to spot fire for them, he has no radios
[22:06] cmdrwilkens: Yes but if I sight him with my planes or subs I can engage with my BBs and be both in range of his monitors and out of range of his fort
[22:06] Sunhawk2: his infantry at least don't
[22:06] cmdrwilkens: Basically for his NGFS to be effective they woudl bneed to be Line of Sight close
[22:06] cmdrwilkens: and that puts him in the zone where I can reach him with BB fire but his fort can't reach me
[22:06] Sunhawk2: yeah, and how high are his masts anyways?
[22:07] sbbigsteve: I imagine he could have forward spotters for his land arty call in the hits from the monitors and they get relayed by the Division/Corps-level radio to the ship.
[22:07] Sunhawk2: NGFS is most effective when you are either firing at a wholly hostile shore (thus no chance of hitting your troops) or have reliable radios at a low level
[22:07] Sunhawk2: how are those spotters relaying the information to the HQs?
[22:08] sbbigsteve: Landline I imagine
[22:08] cmdrwilkens: His spotters would need to be connected by landline
[22:08] cmdrwilkens: most of those (based on WWI most but not all) will be cut by my arty
[22:08] Sunhawk2: which have been getting worked over by artillery
[22:08] cmdrwilkens: But yes he could have some sporadic connections to his ships
[22:09] cmdrwilkens: I contend that if he comes out my 12" guns will be able to range in on him without being subject to counter-battery
[22:10] sbbigsteve: Your fleet would have to move up though, I believe you have it outside the Gulf?
[22:10] *** dagorladsurvivor has been invited to the group chat.
[22:10] *** dagorladsurvivor has joined the chat.
[22:10] *** nerd359 has been invited to the group chat.
[22:10] cmdrwilkens: Yes but they can move in just about as fast as his subs could crawl up the coast and they would be impossible to miss for my planes
[22:10] *** nerd359 has joined the chat.
[22:10] * nerd359 waves
[22:10] nerd359: I'll be in and out folks
[22:11] cmdrwilkens: At the very leat if he wants to do this I think I shoudl get a detection roll and an engagement roll
[22:11] cmdrwilkens: prior to his NGFS roll
[22:11] sbbigsteve: Okay, before the NGFS roll for.... yeah.
[22:11] cmdrwilkens: Hehe
[22:11] dagorladsurvivor: I miss anything good? last I saw you were talking about the hellswamp
[22:11] sbbigsteve: Well, detection is a give in, I was going to say that the higher your roll, the earlier he's detected.
[22:11] sbbigsteve: And thus it will impact his NGFS roll.
[22:12] cmdrwilkens: If I roll high enough can I sink his ships before they get in position?
[22:13] cmdrwilkens: As in like 16+?
[22:13] sbbigsteve: Yes.
[22:13] cmdrwilkens: Roll on then good sir, roll on
[22:13] sbbigsteve: Or rather you can engage them and force them to retreat.
[22:14] nerd359: I'll roll
[22:14] sbbigsteve: I've been rolling.
[22:14] nerd359: Oh
[22:14] cmdrwilkens: Well if I engage and roll high then 12" guns on 5" decks should do the trick
[22:14] nerd359:
[22:14] sbbigsteve: Okay, you can roll this one time. :-p
[22:14] nerd359: nerd359 rolled 3 6-sided dice: 5 3 1
[22:14] sbbigsteve: But I'd kinda like to maintain consistancy in who's rolling....
[22:14] sbbigsteve: 9. Below average roll.
[22:15] dagorladsurvivor: ouch.
[22:15] sbbigsteve: Fair to say you don't detect it until he can at least get a few shots off.
[22:15] cmdrwilkens: So I'm late to the party and he likely gets some rounds off
[22:15] cmdrwilkens: So NGFS effectiveness?
[22:15] sbbigsteve: I mean, by the time your detection comes in and your ships get the position and can open fire he'll have been able to engage for half an hour to an hour.
[22:15] sbbigsteve: Not changed.
[22:15] sbbigsteve: But let's roll first for damage you inflict.
[22:15] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[22:15] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 6 1 3
[22:16] sbbigsteve: 10. Average roll.
[22:16] sbbigsteve: 50% roll.
[22:16] cmdrwilkens: Damaged and forced to retreat?
[22:16] Sunhawk2: it's an overmatch situation
[22:16] sbbigsteve: Damage to all monitors and they retreat.
[22:16] *** JamesI Hunter has joined the chat.
[22:16] cmdrwilkens: Yeah but I'm also engaging at low percentage rnage
[22:16] cmdrwilkens: *range
[22:16] cmdrwilkens: So that I can avoid counter-battery from the fort
[22:16] cmdrwilkens: Hit % should be 4% or less
[22:17] sbbigsteve: I'd say damage to two monitors then, even with a 50% roll.
[22:17] sbbigsteve: But they do flee.
[22:17] sbbigsteve: Southern NGFS is broken up between half an hour and an hour from the battle starting.
[22:18] cmdrwilkens: So how effective was his NGFS?
[22:18] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[22:18] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 5 5 4
[22:18] cmdrwilkens: Ohh it is somewhat effective
[22:18] sbbigsteve: For half an hour, quite effective.
[22:18] Sunhawk2: considering the severe disadvantages, though, it's pretty effective. I'd say a -1 to the attack roll
[22:18] Sunhawk2: for the first half hour
[22:19] sbbigsteve: So I'm going to give the southern sector a -2 to attack.
[22:19] cmdrwilkens: Maybe a 1/2 point to the whole attack though
[22:19] cmdrwilkens: -2 to attack from his arty/NGFS and +1 from my arty?
[22:19] sbbigsteve: Honestly, with a 14 roll I was going to say -2 from NGFS alone, -1 from normal arty, +1 to your arty.

Yes, I'm chopping it up to make it easier to follow. Also, I'll add a forewarning that we kind of forgot the -2 from NGFS on the strength of the 14 roll and made it only -1 on accident, but Wilkens is adjusting to account for the error.

[22:29] sbbigsteve: Alright, northern NGFS roll.
[22:29] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[22:29] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 1 6 2
[22:29] cmdrwilkens: Righteo
[22:29] sbbigsteve: 9. Below average, 37.5%.
[22:29] sbbigsteve: No advantage given.
[22:29] cmdrwilkens: We can store that one until we get to the northern sector and maybe revist after arty rolls in that theater?
[22:29] Sunhawk2: any worse I'd say friendly fire
[22:30] sbbigsteve: Hrm?
[22:30] sbbigsteve: You want to give him the re-roll? I guess.
[22:30] cmdrwilkens: N/M
[22:30] Sunhawk2: if he rolled lower
[22:30] cmdrwilkens: Steve was that to me?
[22:30] nerd359: BRB
[22:30] sbbigsteve: Yes. On Ryan's 9 roll.
[22:30] nerd359: food run
[22:30] sbbigsteve: For northern NGFS.
[22:31] sbbigsteve: Anyway, at 7 I'd have inflicted friendly fire on the Colombians with an attendant bonus.
[22:31] cmdrwilkens: I was doing some backwards math with possible arty scenarios in the north so N/M,
[22:31] sbbigsteve: Okay, time for the main event...
[22:32] cmdrwilkens: Anyway we probably need to get to the main attack
[22:32] * sbbigsteve plays "Are you ready to RUMBLE?!" voice track
[22:32] cmdrwilkens: Over the top boys
[22:32] cmdrwilkens: *whistles*
[22:32] *** DesiArcy has left the chat.
[22:32] * sbbigsteve cues Saxon "Thin Red Line"
[22:32] cmdrwilkens: *crosses fingers*
[22:32] dagorladsurvivor: pff
[22:32] sbbigsteve: Southern Sector.
[22:32] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[22:32] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 2 2 3
[22:32] dagorladsurvivor: Sabaton "Price Of A Mile"
[22:32] dagorladsurvivor: ;D
[22:32] cmdrwilkens: SHIT
[22:32] sbbigsteve: 7.
[22:33] dagorladsurvivor: geheheh.
[22:33] sbbigsteve: -1 combined modifier.
[22:33] cmdrwilkens: -1 for 6 net
[22:33] sbbigsteve: "Price of a Mile" does fit that one better.
[22:33] cmdrwilkens: Ypres it is
[22:33] Sunhawk2: southern attack stalls I'd say
[22:33] cmdrwilkens: Possibly even Passchendale
[22:33] sbbigsteve: I'd figure the attack is generally repulsed.
[22:33] cmdrwilkens: With 2-1 odds repulsed or stalled?
[22:33] sbbigsteve: You might snatch some forward trenches on the first day but for the most part it's a bloody, muddy mess as the soft soil gets blown to pieces.
[22:34] sbbigsteve: Though...
[22:34] sbbigsteve: 6 brings you below 10%
[22:34] sbbigsteve: Honestly I think this might indicate general repulse.

Passchendaele in Panama!

But....

[22:37] sbbigsteve: Okay, Central Sector.
[22:38] sbbigsteve: +2 from air support, +1 from arty, -1 from Colombian Arty.
[22:38] cmdrwilkens: I'm calling it 20% casulaties...all divisions probably need to be out of line 3-4 days minimum even with replacements coming from reserves
[22:38] dagorladsurvivor: or just 'no paseran' in general
[22:38] sbbigsteve: I believe that was a battle cry in the Spanish Civil War.
[22:38] sbbigsteve: For Republican forces guarding Madrid.
[22:38] sbbigsteve: So in 1939, when the Nationalists took it, Franco supposedly remarked to a colleague "We passed".
[22:39] cmdrwilkens: Central Sector is 18 Inf vs 8 Inf Bdes
[22:39] sbbigsteve: Not 3-1 odds...
[22:39] cmdrwilkens: 2 Arty versus 4 Arty
[22:39] cmdrwilkens: Thus why I put my emphasis on support here
[22:40] sbbigsteve: Hrm.
[22:40] sbbigsteve: Anyone object, with this in mind, to maintaining things with 10 as the average?
[22:40] Sunhawk2: no objection
[22:41] cmdrwilkens: AVerage just might mean less success which I woudl be okay with
[22:41] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[22:41] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 3 5 2
[22:41] sbbigsteve: 10.
[22:41] sbbigsteve: Modified to 12.
[22:41] sbbigsteve: 74.1%
[22:41] cmdrwilkens: Modified for the troop differential gets us to maybe say 65% success?
[22:42] sbbigsteve: Works.
[22:42] sbbigsteve: Obviously a breakthrough.
[22:42] sbbigsteve: And now northern sector, +1 from air, +1 from arty, -1 from enemy arty.
[22:42] cmdrwilkens: He will probably wnat to counter-attack before D+12 but that is his call
[22:42] cmdrwilkens: This is also 18 Inf vs 8 Inf
[22:43] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[22:43] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 6 4 5
[22:43] sbbigsteve: BAM
[22:43] sbbigsteve: +1 modified to 16.
[22:43] cmdrwilkens: YEAH
[22:43] cmdrwilkens: 98.1%, troop differential modified to 90%?
[22:43] sbbigsteve: He checked your right hook, your center hit was generally successful but not overwhelming, but that left hook was a bastard.
[22:43] dagorladsurvivor: why are you guys constantly mentioning meaningless percentages?
[22:44] dagorladsurvivor: or redundant ones, anyway
[22:44] sbbigsteve: It's the percentage of likelihood for the roll.

So the Mexican left hook was devastating, the center attack successful but not precisely devastating, and on the right they've been checked.

[Steve]

Ryan's northern forces counter-attack the Mexican left wing.

[01:07] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[01:07] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 1 5 3
[01:08] cmdrwilkens: O:-)
[01:08] cmdrwilkens: 9 early in the morning, 9 late in the afternoon
[01:08] sbbigsteve: ....okay, who was that 9 for?
[01:08] sbbigsteve: Colombian arty I guess, initiating the action.
[01:08] sbbigsteve: Okay, not supremely effective.
[01:08] cmdrwilkens: Actually crap
[01:08] cmdrwilkens: Steve my planes have probably hit their endurance limit
[01:09] sbbigsteve: No bonuses to Colombian attack.
[01:09] JamesI Hunter: Question: Is battle moderation going to happen like this in LibArcWorld?
[01:09] sbbigsteve: You'd have to ask Frig.
[01:09] cmdrwilkens: Don't roll for my air, just my arty
[01:09] sbbigsteve: It'll be easier on LibArc because the board there has dice-rolling embedded into the code.
[01:09] sbbigsteve: You post [dice]3d6[/dice] and your post has rolled dice.
[01:09] RyanThunder0: 9 is pretty close to average
[01:09] sbbigsteve: But below it, so you get no modifiers.
[01:09] RyanThunder0: its just below it.
[01:10] RyanThunder0: oh, so the expected was like +1 or something?
[01:10] RyanThunder0: nvm, then.
[01:10] sbbigsteve: Yes, had you rolled 10 you'd get +1.
[01:10] sbbigsteve: Anyway, on to Mexican counter-arty.
[01:10] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[01:10] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 2 6 4
[01:10] sbbigsteve: 12
[01:10] *** dagorladsurvivor has left the chat.
[01:10] RyanThunder0: Purely out of morbid curiosity, if I'd rolled an 18 for my arty...?
[01:11] RyanThunder0: Do I get a lucky meteor shower in that case?
[01:11] cmdrwilkens: Yay 74.1%, my artillery guys earn their pay
[01:11] sbbigsteve: You'd have gotten a +4 or so to your attack.
[01:11] RyanThunder0: kk
[01:11] sbbigsteve: Maybe +6.
[01:12] RyanThunder0: Well, he's using (relatively) light guns.
[01:12] sbbigsteve: Hrm?
[01:12] cmdrwilkens: I'm using (fewer) heavier guns
[01:12] sbbigsteve: Mexican arty is effective, so a... well, I guess since you're initiating attack it'll be a -1.
[01:12] RyanThunder0: What heavier guns?
[01:13] RyanThunder0: hang up
[01:13] sbbigsteve: 155mm
[01:13] cmdrwilkens: My arty is concentrated in my Corps Arty Bdes which are mostly 105 and 155
[01:13] RyanThunder0: Yeah, I have six of those.
[01:13] cmdrwilkens: You have 6 Div arty Bdes
[01:14] RyanThunder0: with 150L30 QFs
[01:14] RyanThunder0: oh, wait, lemme check that
[01:15] RyanThunder0: yeah, 24×150L30 per brigade.
[01:16] RyanThunder0: *32
[01:16] RyanThunder0: its too late for me to multiply in my head XD
[01:16] sbbigsteve: Ryan, I believe I told you back when you unveiled your army TO&E that your divisional arty would stand but would be considered lighter than standard Corps-level formations?
[01:17] RyanThunder0: mm?
[01:17] RyanThunder0: Well if you did, I'll abide by it. But I don't recall that.
[01:17] sbbigsteve: You're going to make me trawl through the commentary threads aren't you?
[01:17] RyanThunder0: oh no!
[01:18] RyanThunder0: No, I'll just take your word for it.
[01:18] RyanThunder0: so what am I fielding then, 80L30s?
[01:18] cmdrwilkens: So anyway 12 would be a -1 to his attack?
[01:19] sbbigsteve: Yes, since you don't have that sheer quantity of arty, even if your guns are larger
[01:19] sbbigsteve: I'd be fine with 12 or so 155mm guns per divisional arty brigade, Ryan. I was actually presuming about such. Would have to confer with Rogue and Timothy before it's official though.
[01:19] cmdrwilkens: Ok, so +1 initiative and -1 arty gotta love balance
[01:20] RyanThunder0: hah
[01:20] sbbigsteve: Big moment here.
[01:20] RyanThunder0: Well whatever.
[01:20] sbbigsteve: Again, high roll is Ryan's side.
[01:20] RyanThunder0: Yep.
[01:20] cmdrwilkens: Roll on
[01:20] sbbigsteve: Drum roll please.....
[01:20] sbbigsteve: //roll-dice 3-sided 6
[01:20] sbbigsteve: sbbigsteve rolled 3 6-sided dice: 3 5 2
[01:21] sbbigsteve: 10.
[01:21] sbbigsteve: 12
[01:21] sbbigsteve: Dammit, 12.
[01:21] cmdrwilkens: Right down the middle
[01:21] sbbigsteve: ;-p
[01:21] RyanThunder0: XD
[01:21] sbbigsteve: Higher than average.
[01:21] cmdrwilkens: +1, -1
[01:21] sbbigsteve: Wait...
[01:21] sbbigsteve: No, 10.
[01:21] cmdrwilkens: Should be 10
[01:21] RyanThunder0: 10
[01:21] sbbigsteve: What is my brain thinking?!
[01:21] RyanThunder0: still right down the middle.
[01:21] sbbigsteve: And you felt frustrated about typoing "two" earlier, Wilkens.
[01:21] DesiArcy: hmm
[01:21] RyanThunder0: its late, that's what
[01:21] cmdrwilkens: Is your borther snoring maybe that is doing the trick?
[01:21] RyanThunder0: goddamn lag
[01:21] sbbigsteve: No, he's out in the living room
[01:21] sbbigsteve: I laid my top mattress out for him.
[01:22] cmdrwilkens: Anyway 10 is right down the middle
[01:22] RyanThunder0: text shouldn't lag. seriously.
[01:22] sbbigsteve: AIM lag sucks.
[01:22] sbbigsteve: Anyway, 10.
[01:23] cmdrwilkens: Well he is short Inf bdes compared to me but not enough for me to claim a reulse...maybe just attack stalled, mutual fightin position digging begins?
[01:23] cmdrwilkens: *repulse
[01:23] sbbigsteve: Average roll, I'd say the Colombians make a dent in the left wing but didn't come close enough to break through it.
[01:24] RyanThunder0: if my being short infantry brigades counts against me then the expected result of my artillery bombardment should be better.
[01:24] sbbigsteve: Maybe cause some initial concern from Mexican HQ as sunset came, until the attack peters out from the accurate Mexican arty fire.
[01:25] sbbigsteve: Wilkens, any objections to his appeal?
[01:25] RyanThunder0: Does that seem unreasonable to anybody?
[01:25] cmdrwilkens: Sounds good, I would have to retreat, maybe 1/2mi or so?
[01:25] cmdrwilkens: His lack of Inf Brigades should normally cause this to be an impossible attack
[01:25] sbbigsteve: I'd let him consider the 9 roll still enough for a +1 on account of sheer mass, effective roll 11, still just dents the Mexican line.
[01:25] cmdrwilkens: Its only his artillery that makes biting and holding gains possible
[01:25] sbbigsteve: But likely causes the Mexican generals and their staff to hold their breath for a bit.

[CmdrWilkens]

So anyway, breakthrough in the north (followed by desperate counter-attack), a penetration in the Center without a breakthrough and Passchendaele in the south. The poor 14th Army has almost ceased to exist.

[Lascaris]

Or, alternatively, you can just list something like this:

100 1922 Fighters
40 1924 Fighters
20 1925 Fighters
80 1923 Bombers
100 1923 Fighter-Bombers

No looking on wiki, no boring minutiae.

That doesn't make any sense. Not all aircraft are the same. Two aircraft could both come out the same year and wildly differ in capability. So aircraft type choices very much matter. For that matter there is not the slightest gurrantee a 1928 aircraft design would be superior to a very good 1925 design. Never mind this way killing custom designs.

Why exactly should aircraft be downgraded to Risk levels given the detail going into frex ships?

[DarthShady]

My Construction Queue for the entirety of 1925 has been posted. Steve if you wouldn't mind taking a look and making sure it's ok. Sorry it took me so long. I will update my Orbat accordingly soon.

EDIT: Oh and Ma Deuce, your fleet is welcome to visit Tangyanika.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Why exactly should aircraft be downgraded to Risk levels given the detail going into frex ships?

Because some of us truly don't give a shit?

[Steve]

Shady, what's your AirTech? Three of your air models are only buildable by Air Tech 4.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Shady, what's your AirTech? Three of your air models are only buildable by Air Tech 4.

His total score for Air, Industry, Economy is 4 + 4 + 4 = 12. So yes, 4.