Pre-industrial Fantasy STGOD OOC/Rules Thread:

[madd0ct0r]

A whole paragraph is probably about 30 words, but yeah, perhaps we've got too caught up in big story posts. One of my story threads is on pause for the other player to have time, the other i'm just finding this fight scene much harder to write then I expected.

Also, it makes sense since some people post actions here and others in the story thread.

[Simon_Jester]

I've only got about one more "winter" story post in mind but it got massively stalled when I started playing Mass Effect for the first time in my life. I think I can hammer it through though I'd like to finish reading The Three Musketeers first, or at least get half way through...

[The Romulan Republic]

I have two main storylines I need to deal with this winter.

The first one is the raiding one with Jub, which I don't feel necessarily needs to be resolved in winter, but which I'd like to see progress further.

The other is the rogue necromancers one with Esquire, which I would very much like to wrap up before winter ends, since I think the timeline of this conflict would be fairly short.

Let's tentatively set the end of winter for the end of February, if that's okay with everyone. I want to stress that this is not definite, and will be contingent upon the speed with which plots are resolved and the level of participation.

[Simon_Jester]

If you've got a whole plotline to resolve, it might be easier to retcon it as "having happened" later in time. There's no reason a bunch of elven necromancers can't have harassed the Turks in the spring rather than the winter, after all.

In my case my "planned events" are time-critical; they would specifically take place in late February or early March. However, there's no reason we can't talk about them as 'having happened' in the past since they're only plot-critical in that there are plot events which require they have happened. The event won't change the plot significantly, except perhaps for a few soon-to-be-outraged Assiniboine husbands.

[Esquire]

About that - my next post is half-written as it; I sincerely apologize for the delay. It's been... frankly, a shitty couple of months, and I've been much more involved in family concerns than I expected to be, but I'm hoping to be able to finish things within the next two days or so. Re: season changing, it doesn't really matter to me; I'd rather have the Ottoman/Necromancer storyline stretch over two seasons than have some storylines happening the past or future or delay other people's season-dependent ideas.

[madd0ct0r]

' ve got a bunch of nearly done posts, all set in winter but easy to change as long. Nothing that hinges on winter and spring opens new possible for me too

[MissingAxis]

So, in the off chance folks are still around, would anyone be interested in starting a plot thread with the Republic?

[Esquire]

People still are. What did you have in mind? And remind me where the Republic is, exactly?

[The Romulan Republic]

Still here. Will try to post updates for Esquire and Jub shortly.

After that, I think I'll shift back to my internal politics for a while, just to flesh out my faction a bit more. Maybe send some exploratory/trade expeditions up and down the Pacific coast, if anyone's interested.

Edit: To clarify, those expeditions would likely set out in the spring season, when travel by sea might be a tad less perilous.

[MissingAxis]

@Esquire

Chesapeake Bay, assuming that wasn't snagged while I was away. I've edited the latest map version I could find.

http://imgur.com/DGx7x7I

I'm up for most anything. Looking to get back into the groove of writing and roleplaying. If you've got no particular ideas, we could whip up some kind of trade meeting. What sort of exports do your people have? The Republic mostly deals in exotic goods nipped from Central/South America and/or transplanted/grown in the Bay. I also picture them having fairly high quality craftsmanship as far as technology and general goods go, though I'm not sure how they would compare to other nations, and everything they produce is non-magical as well. I also notice the Ottomans are a fair ways inland, though that shouldn't be much more than an inconvenience, assuming ships can pass through the Gulf freely/for a small price/while avoiding pirates.

[Esquire]

We extend a far ways inland, but the capital is OTL New Orleans; we've got a significant naval presence in the Caribbean and trade links to Europe and Africa. Major industrial goods are lead, iron, silver, and diamonds, but we also have a significant sideline in holly tea - as Simon said, the Turks have a monopoly on caffeine in the alternate reality too. Magically-enhanced calligraphy, woven goods, and ceramic tiles are also available, with any number of effects.

[madd0ct0r]

Traders welcome in Hudson bay

[Raw Shark]

I've established that Central-South America is Not A Nice Place (Lovecraft flavor) in the continuity without any opposition. Y'know, just for shits and giggles and for something to kill along what I thought would be my only NPC border, naïf that I am. Africa seems to pretty much be Africa.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Traders welcome in Hudson bay

Speak for yourself Hyenork

In all seriousness traders are also welcome on Orion's side of Hudson's Bay.

I don't suppose the Chesapeake Bay faction fancies a naval war? I can only write about muderising pirates for so long.

[MissingAxis]

I've established that Central-South America is Not A Nice Place (Lovecraft flavor) in the continuity without any opposition. Y'know, just for shits and giggles and for something to kill along what I thought would be my only NPC border, naïf that I am. Africa seems to pretty much be Africa.

Ah, okay. I wasn't aware of that, so I just assumed it was just plain ol' Central/South America. Do you have much in the way of details? I might be able to work around Lovecraftian horrors. If it turns out I can't, I'll just exploit some tropical islanders somewhere, somehow.

I don't suppose the Chesapeake Bay faction fancies a naval war? I can only write about muderising pirates for so long.

I'd be down for a naval conflict of some fashion, though the size of my nation should be kept in mind. I may have warships as good or slightly better than the Orions (I haven't looked closely and I haven't yet assigned point values), but I can't field nearly as many, so any large scale confrontation will probably end with the Republic in tatters. Perhaps some scattered naval skirmishes as the Republic and Orions dispute control over international waters? Seems like a good place to start, but I'm open to suggestions.

We extend a far ways inland, but the capital is OTL New Orleans; we've got a significant naval presence in the Caribbean and trade links to Europe and Africa. Major industrial goods are lead, iron, silver, and diamonds, but we also have a significant sideline in holly tea - as Simon said, the Turks have a monopoly on caffeine in the alternate reality too. Magically-enhanced calligraphy, woven goods, and ceramic tiles are also available, with any number of effects.

Sounds good. I can see the Republic being mostly interested in the raw goods (lead, iron, silver, diamonds) and tea, with the intent of producing something of them and selling the manufactured goods to other nations or even back to your people. I'd rather work out specifics in roleplay, though. Would you like your merchants to show up in the Republic looking to negotiate, or vice versa?

[Esquire]

Hmm. I think it might make more sense for you to visit me; most of my established traders deal with Europe, Africa, or the Ohioans, while the desperate adventurers with half a xebec-full of lead and a thirst for profit are likely looking North or to the Caribbean. Maybe a pasha invited a trade mission through your ambassador?

[Eternal_Freedom]

I don't suppose the Chesapeake Bay faction fancies a naval war? I can only write about muderising pirates for so long.

I'd be down for a naval conflict of some fashion, though the size of my nation should be kept in mind. I may have warships as good or slightly better than the Orions (I haven't looked closely and I haven't yet assigned point values), but I can't field nearly as many, so any large scale confrontation will probably end with the Republic in tatters. Perhaps some scattered naval skirmishes as the Republic and Orions dispute control over international waters? Seems like a good place to start, but I'm open to suggestions.

Fighting for control of trade routes sounds reasonable. And if you can't field as many ships then it would make sense for you to use privateers as well, which would finally make my first story post make sense, and it would also justify my battleship building program that I will be announcing in-game later.

[Simon_Jester]

Hm.

I will note that the Chesapeake is a strategic bottleneck for both sides. On the one hand, it's relatively shallow, narrow water, which makes it hazardous for a strong naval force to push deep into the bay in the face of serious opposition. On the other, you can literally just blockade the mouth of the Chesapeake and block a tremendous amount of maritime traffic from reaching the ocean.

[madd0ct0r]

Can I ask how people feel about Golems? They seem a common fantasy device, but one that leads to an industrial revolution if not constrained somehow...

In particualr, how do people feel about Golem Wagons? Being able to magically power a wheel directly feels wrong, but I can easily see a case where the wagon has legs (Baba Yaga) or has arms that push the wheels along (like a wheelchair style). There needs to be some way to avoid this being story breaking without relying on golem makers being unimaginative.

[Simon_Jester]

My take is that golems are fine as long as they are either drastically more expensive or drastically less safe than steam engines.

Either they're prone to going berserk without extremely careful and highly skilled magical control (as was the golem of Prague that provided the inspiration for most modern depictions of golems)...

Or making them is spectacularly difficult in relative terms (as with my "impellers," which are essentially magical perpetual motion machines so far as modern physics is concerned, and which draw their power from ambient magic.

There are a handful of jewelers and highly skilled bronzesmiths capable of making the necessary parts, with magical assistance, throughout the entire Ohioan Empire with its population of about fifteen million. If you get the parts even slightly wrong, the impeller won't merely work less efficiently. It won't work at all. And if you manage to get everything right, it still requires supervision by a skilled magician (specialists with ten years or more of training), and the forces exerted on the rune-carved brasswork are such that the thing manages to break down on a regular basis anyway, often in ways that cannot be fixed without the further work of skilled craftsmen.

So it really doesn't replace animal traction, except in a handful of applications animal traction categorically cannot perform- applicable in the upcoming siege of Detroit.
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Basically, golems are a delightful fantasy staple. The key is that they should be either rare, or common in such a way that neutralizes their industrial productivity.

For example, an insular society that consists only of wizards and golems would be rather stable... because there is no real incentive to the mass production of goods. Each wizard has only the golems and conjurations necessary for their own sustenance. In theory a wizard could produce a mass of golems to turn out large quantities of industrial goods. But the only reason to do so is in exchange for foreign currency, and the wizards have very few needs that require foreign currency to supply. So there is no real incentive for them to do anything but sit around in their ivory towers.

[Esquire]

I've got nothing against golems per se, but as Simon says we'd need to be careful not to accidentally cause a magic/industrial revolution. How common do you want these to be? Or, if it's helpful, what's the cost in inflation-adjusted USD?

[Simon_Jester]

Trying to work out costs for inflation-adjusted dollars in a pre-industrial economy is pointless, alas. There's no "commodity basket" we have that has enough in common with those of pre-industrial times to serve as a common basis for comparison. And the prices of different commodities are totally disproportionate in a modern society, so that it's hard to get a sense for what things cost back then, relative to one another.

Nowadays, you can buy a shirt for no more than five or ten times the price of a loaf of bread... which I suspect would be unthinkable in 1700, anywhere in the world. Too cheap!

Conversely, attending many types of popular entertainment (e.g. a movie ticket) costs five or ten times the price of a loaf of bread- likewise unthinkable, too expensive!

[Esquire]

I'm well aware; I just wanted to know if, on the cargo transportation spectrum, we're dealing with the family station wagon, a heavy-lift helicopter, or a top-secret government teleportation ray here.

[Simon_Jester]

I'd go with somewhere between the last two. That's where my impellers lie, for instance. It's realistic that they can exist, but they're not "for sale" in the sense that just anyone who has the money can easily round one up as an item for their capital budget.

The sort of thing where in order to have one, you have to be a powerful wizard, or the close friend of one, or have inherited from someone who is.

[Simon_Jester]

Got a partial post draft up, no response from Coop D'etat yet but it's only been a day so I'm not too worried yet.

Trying to remember if I have anything important that isn't "spring" material. Hm. Should do some negotiating with E_F for the guns.