Something big

[Kanastrous]

You're embarrassingly kind.

[fractalsponge1]

Keep in mind this is not for the Essential Guide; it's for my personal skipray project. Nothing from the former gets out till the book gets published next May, sadly

[The Cooler King]

As an interesting bit of syncronicity, I'm currently running the Saga Edition of the Star Wars RPG, and the PCs are heavily outgunned by one of the blastboats at the current moment. I love the detail you've put into this; it really brings out the scale and the look of the ship. Amazing work!

[fractalsponge1]

Skprays are nasty little ships. And it's a ship, not a fighter, being bigger than a Lambda and 4 times the length of your average TIE. 3 capital ion cannon (I assume light point-defense/area turbolaser equivalent), 2 warhead launchers, turreted long lasers, and two fixed laser-looking things on the forward wings/canards. Shields, X-Wing linear acceleration, hyperdrive, and long patrol capable. Evil, and probably evilly-expensive too.

I interpret the pods as having an ion cannon the front, and a maneuvering thruster assembly in the back:

[Crossroads Inc.]

Good call on the wing pods.
I know the Tech Manual "Says" they are sensor pods, but it just makes no sense. Typically sensors are placed in protected areas are in the center of a plane or ship. Not hanging out on wings and such.

Also you are quite correct in calling it a nasty little ship... It is surprising that they are not more popular in the EU, it is a ship that can fill a huge range of rolls.
I'd personally take a group of these over X-Wings any day

[fractalsponge1]

Hm, didn't even know the thing from the tech manual. The Essential Guide to Vessels and Vehicles labels them as ion cannon.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Oh you know what? I was looking at the wrong thing...


I was thinking of the other "pods" toward the front of the fuselage. Those ARE labeled as "sensor pylons" yet still look like weapons to my eyes.

[fractalsponge1]

They will probably get turned into weapons on my version - same caliber as the turret mounted laser cannons.

Updates:

[Skywalker_T-65]

The Skipray is coming along nicely. I like how you are putting in so many details here. Though I can't wait till you do the Vic-Star, (at least I think that was on your list), since I like the smaller SD's (Victory/Venator).

[Knife]

I've been trying for some time to quietly put the idea in his head for a Mon Cal ship.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I've been trying for some time to quietly put the idea in his head for a Mon Cal ship.

I second that motion ( but after the Vic-Star ). Though I can understand how much work he has and I wouldn't want to rush anything.

[evillejedi]

I'd have to agree that the wing pods are the ion cannons, at least that's where I put them. I've always felt that the skipray has seemed like it was scaled up at the last moment, the cockpit just feels too big (not like the absurd carrack cruiser mind you, but just oversize like it was a fighter that got scaled 2x without proportional adjustments) but I guess that gives superb visibility to the pilot.

Knife, I've contemplated finishing off some of my moncals, though I will be honest in saying that they would be an order of magnitude more difficult to model at anything approaching what fractal does since greebles and panels would be a PITA because of polygon edge issues.

[Stofsk]

I just took a look at your site and the galleries that are there. Has anyone offered you a job working in cgi/vfx? Because damn son those models are amazing.

[Ryan Thunder]

I'd have to agree that the wing pods are the ion cannons, at least that's where I put them. I've always felt that the skipray has seemed like it was scaled up at the last moment, the cockpit just feels too big (not like the absurd carrack cruiser mind you, but just oversize like it was a fighter that got scaled 2x without proportional adjustments) but I guess that gives superb visibility to the pilot.

Perhaps the glass is just that thick?

[Marko Dash]

doesn't look too scaled up. the windshield looks to be about the size of one on something like a van would be, and to picture with the figure looks about the same.

look from the glass to the last vertical line before the hull narrows and you'll see a van.

[evillejedi]

you're right!




all my work is low poly solid hull work for games (<20K tris), so most of it is texturing and a lot of tricks and most of the time is spent UV mapping and texturing

[=Krieger=]

I've been quietly watching Fractal for about two years now, and I've been green with envy. The detail, the theory crafting probable energy outputs, trying to figure out how to explain "Star Wars Science" in his ships, all of it. Its made me want to do 3d modeling of my own. I've been attempting to come up with concept designs (both as descriptions and as utterly 5th-grade skilled hand drawings in an attempt to get an idea across), some of which are Mon Cal in design.

See, there's a hitch. I don't have any 3d modeling experience, and I'd hate to learn on something like Blender and then get a more mainstream program later and need to re-learn. I'm presently saving up for 3DS Max between bills and impulsive video game purchases. Hopefully, in some reasonable time frame, I'll be able to produce work that I'd feel comfortable posting.

[Kanastrous]

Krieger - have a look at Google Sketchup - it's no 3DS (or Blender, let alone Maya, Rhino, Modo or Lightwave) but it's a free download in its non-pro form (which is darned close to the pro version), is *very* easily learned and can be used to build very nice models (though it lacks a photo-real renderer, and only renders sketch-style output).

It's a great little program with which to get your feet wet, and offers sufficient functionality to make cool models. We don't use it for VFX (it being totally unsuited to the purpose) but so far as it goes it's Good Stuff.

FWIW since you are saving up, have a look at Rhino, too. I don't know what your professional goals are but in film/tv production (at least, on the projects on which I work, over the period that I have been working) 3DS is virtually nonexistent: Rhino, Maya, AutoCad, Modo, and Vectorworks are far more prevalent (though I would not particularly recommend AutoCad or Vectorworks for their 3D sides).

[fractalsponge1]

I just took a look at your site and the galleries that are there. Has anyone offered you a job working in cgi/vfx? Because damn son those models are amazing.

I do some freelance contractor work, like with the Essential Guide and another smaller project I'm under NDA for. But mostly, it's all for fun Both are, however, combining to squeeze out the blastboat, at least for another week or so...

Knife, I've contemplated finishing off some of my moncals, though I will be honest in saying that they would be an order of magnitude more difficult to model at anything approaching what fractal does since greebles and panels would be a PITA because of polygon edge issues.

I maintain, from my "not currently doing or planning on doing it" perch, that it won't be that hard once you've gotten the basic shape, and modular blister detail. Plus, it needn't be super accurate, because it's not like the movie mon cals are closely studied very widely anyway (except maybe Home One).

I've been quietly watching Fractal for about two years now, and I've been green with envy. The detail, the theory crafting probable energy outputs, trying to figure out how to explain "Star Wars Science" in his ships, all of it. Its made me want to do 3d modeling of my own. I've been attempting to come up with concept designs (both as descriptions and as utterly 5th-grade skilled hand drawings in an attempt to get an idea across), some of which are Mon Cal in design.

See, there's a hitch. I don't have any 3d modeling experience, and I'd hate to learn on something like Blender and then get a more mainstream program later and need to re-learn. I'm presently saving up for 3DS Max between bills and impulsive video game purchases. Hopefully, in some reasonable time frame, I'll be able to produce work that I'd feel comfortable posting.

Glad you've gotten some inspiration here. As far as 3d packages go, max seems to be more common in games, but exceptions are all over the place. The student version of max (basically identical to the commercial one) is free. The commercial license is hella expensive though, to be sure . There might be similar versions for Maya (given it's also autodesk now). Lightwave is also another popular one to consider, though I find the interface indecipherable...

[Kanastrous]

I'd suggest looking at Modo before Lightwave - Modo is essentially Lightwave Generation II and addresses some of the gripes directed at Lightwave for a while now. The interfaces are very similar; I was able to sit down and start using Modo immediately based upon experience with Lightwave.

That said, Lightwave is now what I would call 'second-string' VFX software. Not in the sense that it's an inferior product (I still dig Lightwave) but in that for workflow purposes and out of widespread adoption it's been left in the dust by Rhino and Maya for high-end modeling and rendering purposes (well, okay, everyone has their own individual preferences when it comes to renderers, but it holds true for modeling). If you become competent with Rhino or Maya you are unlikely to go long, wanting for work.

[salm]

There are tons of very good and free or cheap 3D solutions besides Blender:

Maya: fully functional free learning edition
Softimage: free Mod Tool
Wings 3D: supposedly awesome open source modeling tool
Houdini: only 99 dollars

Depending on your location 3ds Max might make sense for film/tv production. Here in Germany it´s used for such projects on a regular basis.
Saving up for 3ds Max is nonsense, though if you´re not sure that you´re going to use it commercially. You can make models just as good in Maya or any other free or cheap program.

It might still be worth looking at Blender. I downloaded the newest Version a while ago and it seems they´re adapting a more mainstream user interface. Blenders modern frame based GUI is way better than the crap GUI expensive Autodesk products have anyway. And it´s got a cool integrated fluid simulator.

[salm]

That said, Lightwave is now what I would call 'second-string' VFX software. Not in the sense that it's an inferior product (I still dig Lightwave) but in that for workflow purposes and out of widespread adoption it's been left in the dust by Rhino and Maya for high-end modeling and rendering purposes (well, okay, everyone has their own individual preferences when it comes to renderers, but it holds true for modeling). If you become competent with Rhino or Maya you are unlikely to go long, wanting for work.

The 3D package itself doesn´t have much to do with the rendering. Autodesk products are equipped with the MentalRay Renderer so the results will look pretty much the same no matter if you use Max, Maya or Softimage. Very often these programs are used with third party plugin renderers like Vray or Maxwell. You can get Vray for Sketchup and render a model the render quality will be the same. At least where I´m from Vray is pretty much industry standard and it would be wise for anyone pursuing a career in 3D to get used to Vray.

[=Krieger=]

I'm, truth be told, seeing more support for trying to get started than I've seen from, and for, other people. Maybe it has to do with that whole Mon-Cal-Designs-Planned part... Not to say I don't have a murder-wedge design in mind too.

I took a peak at Rhino. I, in theory, could purchase that now. Will look into some more.

A question I have is this though: If I get Rhino now, how easy/difficult would it be to convert the files for use in something like Max or Maya down the road? I know things aren't always copacetic between all the programs.

\
I maintain, from my "not currently doing or planning on doing it" perch, that it won't be that hard once you've gotten the basic shape, and modular blister detail. Plus, it needn't be super accurate, because it's not like the movie mon cals are closely studied very widely anyway (except maybe Home One).

The blisters are cause for some pause for me simply because I can't honestly believe how the turbolasers work in them without SEVERELY limited firing arcs. I understand the Murder Wedge is just about as perfect as you can get for good firing arcs, but that shouldn't mean Mon Cal's should get away without being able to fire both forward and sideways on the same weapons emplacement. Now, not all the blisters are weapons emplacements, some of which are shield systems, sensors, or occasionally a hanger. I've been trying to think of alternate methods to express the fluid feel of the Mon Cal design theme, blisters and all, and come up with viable weapons systems. Stuff to ponder on. But, I'll try not to hijack Fractal's thread anymore.

[=Krieger=]

Not trying to double post or anything, but I've been looking into various 3d programs. Rhino3d and Cinema 4d both look like viable options right now, the price is where I could afford them, and people are pumping out models I find visually pleasing in both programs. The NURBS thing is kinda confusing (I tried to look at the mathematical formula after reading about it to try and figure out how it could reduce the face count easily. Didn't help.) Some of the textures and renders do look like they could use some work though, since most of the showcase items seemed to be some variation of clear or overly reflective.

As long as I can work with degrees easily (pesky rounded Mon Cal designs...), cut sections out, "smooth" the edges between two attached objects (Oval A, please look like the same piece as Ovals B and C on either side of you. Thanks!), extrude/place panels on a rounded or flat surface easily, etc, I should be set for how I envisioned being able to model these things. However, being rounded designs, my polycount is probably going to be through the roof.

I actually misspoke earlier, I don't have ZERO 3d modeling experience. I did fiddle around with AutoCad back in High School and managed to make a halfway decent cell phone in a day. Wasn't animated, but still. Little experience is still better than none.

If anyone wants to PM me any info they have on both, I'll try to stop hijacking the thread again.

Oh, and keep up the work Fractal.

[fractalsponge1]

I believe maya/3dsmax should be a fairly simple file transfer (via fbx or somesuch) - Max to LW can be a pain in the ass, I know. Most packages should be able to output to obj, and that can be then imported into something else, possibly with really screwed up normals or mapping.

All the packages you mentioned can do pretty much everything. They might have different terminologies or workflows, and one might be a little easier for some things than others, but in the end it's the person in front of the computer that counts. The sooner you start, the sooner you'll get good. If you do go with max or maya, learn on the free student version before committing.

As for Mon Cal blisters (more to the point), in my head they either have ball turrets at the tips, or have the gun barrel mounted on a concealed ball/socket joint and retracting into the blister length-wise (like the AGS on the DDG1000s, only, um, rounded). Only a small portion of the blister is gun and the associated traversing/elevation mechanisms; the rest I figure are local generators/shield emitters/capacitors/crew space. Extra points for sense-making (imho) if the blisters are modular, and can be shifted around completely on the hull or have their weapons swapped out for equivalent-power ion cannon.