Something big

[CetaMan]

Tector is established as being the ISD-analog vessel. EGTW does actually place it in use midway in the clone wars interesting enough.

[fractalsponge1]

interesting thing to note, got the Fulgor in Warlords thanks to Elratie, it is a strange beast. the lack of any large turbos means it can't kill anything larger than a corvette, but it can sure stop a battle cold with the ions.

In a minor fleet engagement, 1 ISD II +2-3 fulgors is trouble for anything in the same weight class

Elratie's stuff is awesome to see.

[PhoenixKnig]

interesting thing to note, got the Fulgor in Warlords thanks to Elratie, it is a strange beast. the lack of any large turbos means it can't kill anything larger than a corvette, but it can sure stop a battle cold with the ions.

In a minor fleet engagement, 1 ISD II +2-3 fulgors is trouble for anything in the same weight class

Elratie's stuff is awesome to see.

Can we have a link to Elratie n Warlords please.

[evillejedi]

https://sketchfab.com/Elratie/models

link to the models on sketch fab

[PhoenixKnig]

https://sketchfab.com/Elratie/models

link to the models on sketch fab

thanks

[fractalsponge1]

And here it is: Inexpugnable-class command ship gallery.



Base 4k renders at: http://fractalsponge.net/?p=3100

[Geforce]

Inexpugnable-class command ship gallery....VERY COOL! great work

[Abacus]

That ship honestly confuses me so much...but I still think it's cool.

[Patroklos]

I do like it, but it seems quite under armed visually. I see nine major emplacements ventral, one dorsal.

Are the bulbs giant ball turrets or reactors? If reactors, its cool to have the weapons mounts sort of tap directly into them. I am not sure if it matters, but it makes me FEEL like they get an advantage from that.

[fractalsponge1]

I bet the giant bulbs are reactors, but probably not the only ones in the ship.

Keep in mind:
1) this design is 4000 years older than the OT
2) The ship is 3.4km long and the "bulbs" to which the main guns are attached are about 600m in diameter, approaching destroyer volume

In OT terms the guns would be petaton scale, but you'd need appropriate (and totally uncertain) scaling for developments across millenia. Since it's a command ship (explicitly), it exists to coordinate and to stand off and kill big ships and stations; the swarm of Hammerheads and fighters that always accompany it do the maneuver warfare and screening duties against lighter targets. Point defense would be invisible at this scale.

[Patroklos]

This is one in my issues with SW ship taxonomy, what does "command ship" mean? What visually distinguishes one from any other ship?

In real life all that means is there is a flag suite that can handle the staff of an embarked headquarters When you tax a 50 person HQ onto a destroyer it's a big deal. When you do it to a large deck amphib and especially an aircraft carrier it's hardly noticeable. As ships get bigger they become more volume efficient relative to the scale of human workspace requirements.what I am saying is for most ships in SW scale the physical presence of a staff shouldn't require any purpose built modification visible from the outside or that would necessity a purpose built platform of the scale the appear in SW.

The other visual distinction one might expect is communications gear, but even in the real world this is becoming less of a distinction because the vessels with flag suites, for instance CGs and CVN in the USN, need the same comms to do their normal combat missions anyway.

The Empire seems to point to command ships not being purpose built for this roll, but rather just the ship the commander chose to reside it. Essentially flag ships. Thrawn commanded a huge portion of the Empire from an ISD. Vader used an Executor class as a command ship but thete is no design feature we know about it that distiguishes it as a command ship vice just a larger combat vessel. The same goes for Eclipse.

The only OT era ship I know of given description that makes me think it was purpose built as a command ship and is physically tailored as such to effect overall function it the RotJ communications ship. But that could just be arhe ship the fleet chose to be the network node and is otherwise just another combat ship class. Maybe any ship present could have served that purpose (just like any link 16 or link 11 ship can serve as the nets keeper)

[PhoenixKnig]

Re: ESD some have noted a few meters add on 2 Vader's ship

[Abacus]

It's likely that the command and control necessities that we're familiar with today are better dealt with by computers, droids, and other bits of technological advancements. There's also the idea for a more independent officer corps, kind of a policy of objective-oriented tactics and strategy; ie you're given orders to achieve an objective, but how you do so is up to the CO on location.

As such you don't need a dedicated "flagship" or "command and control" vessel, so much as simply one ship assigned as the flagship, with the commanding officer able to transfer his or her flag at their own discretion.

[Patroklos]

Exactly, So in the case of the Inexpungable, with its 3.8km length and only ten major weapons mounts, what is the rest of the ship volume used for? Presumably "command ship" stuff, but what the hell does that mean/include?

[PhoenixKnig]

I was wondering was that there might be a difference between a "flagship" or a "command and control ship"

[PhoenixKnig]

Exactly, So in the case of the Inexpungable, with its 3.8km length and only ten major weapons mounts, what is the rest of the ship volume used for? Presumably "command ship" stuff, but what the hell does that mean/include?

I feel might have to do with the slave controls and light carrier duties

[PhoenixKnig]

I was wondering was that there might be a difference between a "flagship" or a "command and control ship"

CnC ship might include SINT, Electronic Warfare, Communication Warfare and other IC3 specialization

The "Flag" could be just a mobile HQ office

[Lord Revan]

I was wondering was that there might be a difference between a "flagship" or a "command and control ship"

CnC ship might include SINT, Electronic Warfare, Communication Warfare and other IC3 specialization

The "Flag" could be just a mobile HQ office

I know you just replied to yourself but the difference is actually quite simple, a "flagship" is any ship no matter how small or insignifigant that a flag officer (aka an Admiral) is currently using as their command post. a shuttle with admiral current onboard direction the battle from it could be considered a flagship and the ship in question doesn't have to be built for that task. a CnC ship would be something purpose built for that specific task.

[PhoenixKnig]

I was wondering was that there might be a difference between a "flagship" or a "command and control ship"

CnC ship might include SINT, Electronic Warfare, Communication Warfare and other IC3 specialization

The "Flag" could be just a mobile HQ office

I know you just replied to yourself but the difference is actually quite simple, a "flagship" is any ship no matter how small or insignifigant that a flag officer (aka an Admiral) is currently using as their command post. a shuttle with admiral current onboard direction the battle from it could be considered a flagship and the ship in question doesn't have to be built for that task. a CnC ship would be something purpose built for that specific task.

The " edit post" button expired after I finished said edit
Thanks for sum it up in simple form

[fractalsponge1]

I don't think command duties take up much volume (though I guess you might argue Executor's cityscape...). Inexpugnable volume I think is mostly machinery and hangar space, but mostly machinery. Major hangar areas in the forward block and the front edge of the aft center block, but the aft of the blade, the blisters, and large areas of the ring are going to be power generation, and what's left is engine. Protected ingress/egress from stacked hangar bays explains the presence of the donut.

It may be a "tactical command ship" but I doubt that's the primary function for something its size - I think it's more likely a heavy dreadnought (3.4km 4000 years before the Imperial era is enormous in relative terms when the destroyer equivalent is like 500m) whose size is also exploited for flag functions. It is explicitly stated to lead large formations of Hammerheads in the descriptions, but it probably also offers superheavy long range firepower and carrier function that complements Hammerhead swarms.

And I really don't get why you'd think this is underarmed - if it were an OT ship we'd be looking at a 20-30 petaton broadside (1+ petaton per shot for the heavy turbolasers), and easily enough reactor volume to support that. It's the volume equivalent of a Lucrehulk, only a dedicated warship rather than a conversion, with all the power generation and capability that implies. The gun blisters alone individually approximate ISD volume.

[Scottish Ninja]

I thought I heard a suggestion somewhere that an Executor as 'command ship' might even be administrative - a lot of the space is for a city of military bureaucrats, more a flying Pentagon than a USS Blue Ridge. That's why Vader needs one in ESB - if he's CinC at that time then I can imagine him needing a large staff just to run the Navy (and figure out who needs to be... reminded of their duties). Similarly I imagine a lot of Moffs wanting them, for a couple of reasons: to divorce sector governance from any particular planet (sending the message to those planets that no, you're not that important - especially potent in the context of the Death Star); to protect the local Imperial administration from Rebel attack (probably easier to truck bomb an office block than a battleship); and again to keep the government staff close to the Moff so they can respond quickly to their commands.

That said, I think it could also be plausible that - in a universe of 1000+ ship fleets, multiple-thousand G accelerations, space-warpingly intense jamming, and galaxy-spanning strategy - all the hardware you need for effective command and control really does need to be that bulky to match.

[Lord Revan]

I see "command ships" being the starship equilevant of those armored command vehicles some militaries use for ground battles. I'd also suspect there's a degree of redundency of hardware on those ships, so that failure of a single component won't cripple the chain of command. Also do we actually know what's needed for hyperwave transmitions in terms of space?

[PhoenixKnig]

Was it hyperwave transceivers?

[Rhadamantus]

Having administrative facilities on a ship that might go into battle seems like a bad idea. Ships are expensive, and turning one into a command ship would be very much so.
If you wanted to divorce your administration from any planet, you'd be better served by building a base than a battleship.

[PhoenixKnig]

Having administrative facilities on a ship that might go into battle seems like a bad idea. Ships are expensive, and turning one into a command ship would be very much so.
If you wanted to divorce your administration from any planet, you'd be better served by building a base than a battleship.

One might argue to have the chain of command close to the battlefield for better communication