SD+SB in Middle Earth

[MKSheppard]

Give me one T-55. I'll defeat Mordor myself.

Give me one F-111B Aardvark and a full warload of AGM-69 SRAMs,
and I'll defeat every fucking power on Middle Earth

[MKSheppard]

Myself (holding an advanced diving certificate, and likely to be getting more qualifications including deep diving this year) trains a few others in the skills neccessary to dive.

I took SCUBA diving once, in a pool! Count me in! I wanna blow shit up!

[MKSheppard]

All we would need is one low yield thermonuclear explosive, preferably strapped to MK's back. Then tell him Sauramon (sp?) is going to take hius guns. Sit back and enjoy.

Naaah.

Just give me lots of atrophine and a capsule of VX from a
Divisional Chemical Warfare Officer's suite.

I then let myself be captured by the baddies, and I ofcourse break
the capsule in my mouth and breathe all over them. (after injecting
myself with the atrophine of course)

[The Yosemite Bear]

Grumbles at lack of decent sanitary conditions in middle earth.

Immedatly begins buying salt and Sawdust to make cold boxes for the inns using icy from the Dwarven Held mountains.....

*spins hands very fast*
*Begins chopping veggies/meats very fast on a hot grill surface*
*Accidently removes Pippin's fingers*

"Someone get the Hobbit's out of my @#$%&*! kitchen!"

[Ren]

Durandal's plan operates on the philosophy that it is easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. It presents a fait accompli to Gandalf and the rest that cannot be avoided.

We steal the ring, and try to destroy it. If it works, great, problem solved. If it does not work, we encase it in steel. A few days later Gandalf appears, pounding angrily on the doo and demanding to know who we ar and what we've done with the Ring.

We explain, "We took it because it is evil, it must be destroyed, and it was not adequately secured in a place like Hobbiton." All these things are facts which Gandalf cannot refute. We can either show the destroyed remnants to him or the block of steel-- either way, I am sure there will be some form of magical Divination which Gandalf can use to determine that this is, indeed, the Ring.

Once Gandalf is at ease with our intention-- whether he likes our methods or not will be an academic discussion at best-- he is more than likely to join forces with us. He may be joining us only to see to it that we carry out our promise, but who cares whether he trusts us or not? He'll see soon enough that we are working very hard to secure it, destroy it, and defend the locals from evil forces. He is a practical man, and he will realize that weird, otherworldly help is better than no help at all.

I have had an epiphany and see your point and will concede that for the starting condition's you are probably assuming ( no immediate alliances ect.) your's is probably the best choice. The one problem that I have is that Gandalf may not knock politly on our door but do something drastic, but I am sure this can be taken care of by simply inviting him there before he realizes the ring is gone or a similar diplomatic measures.

[Durandal]

Or by mustard gas.

[Keevan_Colton]

Or by mustard gas.

"Dark fire will not avail...."
*cough...thud*
"What?"
"Dark..."
*cough....cough.....silence*
"Well...that was simple"

[Ren]

Three words moron.

Armour piercing rounds.

What types of armour to Mordor use? Heavy plate mail. Oh dear. watch as armies of Mordor are filletted right as they step out the door, where's your large army to threaten the gang then?

Also, if they have the ring then why do they need allies?..automatic weapons fire is pretty damn protective and isn't running in short supply, somehow I doubt the BOP is going to get threatened, much less assaulted due to noone knowing where it is and noone being able tp approach.

You spend what time's left going out and getting pissed while the sci guys dissolve the damn thing.

If you are going to destroy the ring with science then you can do so in the Shire without conducting the commando raid, and if it turns out you can't in your scenerio you are screwed, unless you happen to have more bullets than all the orcs and trolls and other assorted beast in Mordor and the East and the South and you manage to kill one orc per bullet, and they never get the drop on you, remember the black gate and how the area it's in is riddled with hundreds of caves, get to close and pow instant melee, and if you don't get close you don't get into Mordor. And even if you do manage to take them all out that's that many bullets lost and men lost, and you still need to take out the force defending the gate directly. You may be able to do it but you are talking potentially heavy casulaties here.

As for the base assuming it is invincible is just plain stupid, if all else fails they can simple seige you and starve you out.

We are not srewed. You assume that even if we fail to destroy the ring or if we are discovered in the act of stealing the Ring, ALL IS LOST. It is not, they will have no idea who we are or where we are from let alone our capabilities. You are prescribing cognitive and precognitive abilities to the people of ME that they do not have and you are not realizing that a point destruction raid and/or snatch and grab raid is well with in our ability.

And a seige against a force with modern ranged weapons we not be a very long seige. With a proper defensive plan utilizing a denfense in depth and all sort of nice surprises with improvised munitions. I don't necessarily want our base discovered by the enemy but if they come, they really don't stand much of a chance.

This depends on how many there are against us. With millions of orcs they could simply spread out around us in a very large circle and entrench themselves and wait for us to starve, but I was suggesting a worse case, us verse the entrity of Mordor scenerio, in a more realistic scenerio the odds are much more in our favor unless they do something really sneaky and evil.

[Ren]

All we would need is one low yield thermonuclear explosive, preferably strapped to MK's back. Then tell him Sauramon (sp?) is going to take hius guns. Sit back and enjoy.

Naaah.

Just give me lots of atrophine and a capsule of VX from a
Divisional Chemical Warfare Officer's suite.

I then let myself be captured by the baddies, and I ofcourse break
the capsule in my mouth and breathe all over them. (after injecting
myself with the atrophine of course)

You may need more than one capsule, there are lots of orcs and they are spread out all over the place

[Coyote]

Again, I think Gandalf is practical and senible and will not come to an obviously very alien base all a-huff and a-puff. He'll see what's up first before making any rash judgements, he has not lived to be as venerable as he is by being foolish.

This thread grows quickly because many people seem to have the habit of quoting the entire bloc of 72 messages or so that preceeded particular subject strings. For the sake of everyone, let's try to quote only the necessary points, edit out what is not needed and save space.

And, Keevan, if you are putting this in FanFic form, go ahead and toss me in there. Lemme know what stats you needs. We should all do this for the writers amongst us. Others who were plannign to write fics should not give up, in fact, having many chapters, each presenting a particular point of view (there will be many fascinating things going on at once) and then edited together would be cool.

[Keevan_Colton]

Again, I think Gandalf is practical and senible and will not come to an obviously very alien base all a-huff and a-puff. He'll see what's up first before making any rash judgements, he has not lived to be as venerable as he is by being foolish.

He does seem to be smart enough to look before he leaps (with the exception of in Moria ).

And, Keevan, if you are putting this in FanFic form, go ahead and toss me in there. Lemme know what stats you needs. We should all do this for the writers amongst us. Others who were plannign to write fics should not give up, in fact, having many chapters, each presenting a particular point of view (there will be many fascinating things going on at once) and then edited together would be cool.

I was thinking perhaps something of a collaberative work for it in the first place....it'll certainly be entertaining....

[David]

Grumbles at lack of decent sanitary conditions in middle earth.

Immedatly begins buying salt and Sawdust to make cold boxes for the inns using icy from the Dwarven Held mountains.....

*spins hands very fast*
*Begins chopping veggies/meats very fast on a hot grill surface*
*Accidently removes Pippin's fingers*

"Someone get the Hobbit's out of my @#$%&*! kitchen!"

Hmmmm don't forget the butcher knives

Muhahahaha *pulls out several tubes full of rabies*

[The Yosemite Bear]

My thoughts exactly...

They definatly are not ready for Bene-hana, Mongolian BBQ or Sushi.

Besides to sanitize I need either a mild acid, or water that's over 180*F, You don't think they will mind me boiling all the tankards and knives do you?

also since we have a full kit medical facility we won't have to worry about 75% of our allies normally fatal wounds. (Anti-Biotics & not having to cut off limbs=good for us)

[The Yosemite Bear]

In terms of any Siege, Whom ever we side with, will automatically benefit from better artillery accuracy (Yes, I am talking catapults, you figure how much of an improvement a calculator is over mideval reconing), Continued survivability of Combat injuries (Not having to cut off limbs all the time is good), adequate protection from disease. And having the ability to eat preprepared food, that can keep for YEARS. (STEW's at High Temps+Wine Bottles=2 year shelf life.)

[Durandal]

In terms of any Siege, Whom ever we side with, will automatically benefit from better artillery accuracy (Yes, I am talking catapults, you figure how much of an improvement a calculator is over mideval reconing), Continued survivability of Combat injuries (Not having to cut off limbs all the time is good), adequate protection from disease. And having the ability to eat preprepared food, that can keep for YEARS. (STEW's at High Temps+Wine Bottles=2 year shelf life.)

Hell, I could easily write a Fortran program that would calculate the angle we'd need to aim our projectile to travel a certain distance, while taking into account wind resistance according to temperature and pressure during that time. Just keep a laptop next to the catapult and we're gold.

[Keevan_Colton]

Hell, I could easily write a Fortran program that would calculate the angle we'd need to aim our projectile to travel a certain distance, while taking into account wind resistance according to temperature and pressure during that time. Just keep a laptop next to the catapult and we're gold.

Hell, a modified version of that old BASIC favourite Gorillas would increase thier accuracy by incredible margins....

Is it just me or is this thread looking like it will overtake the "What do you look like" and "Star Crossed" threads in the next day or so?

I dont think anyone can say we arent enthusiastic about the premise.

[weemadando]

Hmmmm, I had a thought regarding diplomacy that could be very very interesting.

We take the biggest fucker from within our group. Thats probably myself and a few others who are all well over 6' and fairly fucking hefty to boot.

We act as the diplomats, because "we were not strong enough to be warriors in our society". Thats gotta have some funky psychological effects on our potential allies...

[Durandal]

Hmmmm, I had a thought regarding diplomacy that could be very very interesting.

We take the biggest fucker from within our group. Thats probably myself and a few others who are all well over 6' and fairly fucking hefty to boot.

We act as the diplomats, because "we were not strong enough to be warriors in our society". Thats gotta have some funky psychological effects on our potential allies...

You're going through basic training, just like the rest of us.

[Enforcer Talen]

true. but he can pretend to be nonmilitary later.

[Sea Skimmer]

All we would need is one low yield thermonuclear explosive, preferably strapped to MK's back. Then tell him Sauramon (sp?) is going to take hius guns. Sit back and enjoy.

Naaah.

Just give me lots of atrophine and a capsule of VX from a
Divisional Chemical Warfare Officer's suite.

I then let myself be captured by the baddies, and I ofcourse break
the capsule in my mouth and breathe all over them. (after injecting
myself with the atrophine of course)

You die anyway, atrophine is not effective against high levels of VX, remember a single drop on your skin is enough to kill many times over. A capsule in your mouth would be fatal.

[weemadando]

Hmmmm, I had a thought regarding diplomacy that could be very very interesting.

We take the biggest fucker from within our group. Thats probably myself and a few others who are all well over 6' and fairly fucking hefty to boot.

We act as the diplomats, because "we were not strong enough to be warriors in our society". Thats gotta have some funky psychological effects on our potential allies...

You're going through basic training, just like the rest of us. :)

I know that you fool.

But the point is, that if these people take one look at our "diplomats" who aren't big and tough enough to be warriors in our society (according to medieval thinking), then they will be a) shitting themselves, b) queueing up to ally with us.

Its all about the psychology of it.

[Sea Skimmer]

Again, I think Gandalf is practical and senible and will not come to an obviously very alien base all a-huff and a-puff. He'll see what's up first before making any rash judgements, he has not lived to be as venerable as he is by being foolish.

Exactly, which is why there is basically no chance in hell he would give us the ring nor even let us touch it for a demonstration.

[Enforcer Talen]

and the odds he thinks us sent by sauron are much higher then a base from the far future - something totally unheard of.

[weemadando]

I'm also wondering how the population of middle earth would react to our attempts to industrialise them.

I mean certain things like sewing machines and cotton gins may catch on quickly, but steam tractors or, if we got really into trade etc -trains.

I think that they might draw the line somewhere.

[MKSheppard]

I think that they might draw the line somewhere.

Then we promptly mow them down with the quad .50 HMG
mounts on our methane powered humvees