Gaza situation discussion

[[R_H]]

Also the UN now disputes the IDF claim that they were shot at from the school they blasted.
And they may be right, the team could be several inches away like these fellows.

There was a interview of the/a Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman and the head of UNRWA on CNN broadcast. UNRWA is saying that it is "99.9%" certain that there were no militants near the school, and the Israeli spokesman said that the gunmen were in the "immediate vicinty" of the school. When asked by the head of UNRWA what he meant by "immediate" vicinty (inside the school, in side the school compound, close to the school etc.) he didn't elaborate what what was meant.

[Bounty]

I saw that interview. The Israeli spokesman was either poorly briefed or he was covering something up; he was visibly nervous and kept dodging questions.

Then again, he'd have a right to be. "Immediate vicinity"? The gunmen were either in the school using it as cover or they weren't. Or is "hiding in a building near the enemy" enough reason to get bombed to crap now?

[[R_H]]

And it was just reported on CNN that Hamas heavily controls what is reported in the Gaza Strip, which is why, according to the CNN reporter in the area, Israel should let international reporters in.

I saw that interview. The Israeli spokesman was either poorly briefed or he was covering something up; he was visibly nervous and kept dodging questions.

Then again, he'd have a right to be. "Immediate vicinity"? The gunmen were either in the school using it as cover or they weren't. Or is "hiding in a building near the enemy" enough reason to get bombed to crap now?

If I remember correctly, he first said something like "hiding in the school" and then "in the immediate vicinity. It could be that they were close enough to the school that a bomb hitting them also hit part of the school, or the bomb missed them and hit too close to the school. I doubt it was a direct hit on the school, seeing how that of the 1300 people taking shelter there, 30 died.

[Edi]

Also the UN now disputes the IDF claim that they were shot at from the school they blasted.
And they may be right, the team could be several inches away like these fellows.

They may or may not be right, but we shall see whether more definitive evidence will come to light. Neither side has a trustworthy track record with this sort of claims. We do have prior incidents on video where IDF tanks have fired machineguns indiscriminately into crowded bazaars without provocation, so a coverup would not be the least bit surprising.

[eyl]

Also the UN now disputes the IDF claim that they were shot at from the school they blasted.
And they may be right, the team could be several inches away like these fellows.

There was a interview of the/a Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman and the head of UNRWA on CNN broadcast. UNRWA is saying that it is "99.9%" certain that there were no militants near the school, and the Israeli spokesman said that the gunmen were in the "immediate vicinty" of the school. When asked by the head of UNRWA what he meant by "immediate" vicinty (inside the school, in side the school compound, close to the school etc.) he didn't elaborate what what was meant.

I don't have a cite - hopefully one will be available later - but a couple of hours ago I heard an interview with one of the Palestinian UNWRA officials in Gaza who claimed that all the people who were killed were outside the school. So Even if the UN is correct in its "%99.99" claim, it doesn't rule out being an Israeli attack on a launch squad.

[[R_H]]

Also the UN now disputes the IDF claim that they were shot at from the school they blasted.
And they may be right, the team could be several inches away like these fellows.

They may or may not be right, but we shall see whether more definitive evidence will come to light. Neither side has a trustworthy track record with this sort of claims. We do have prior incidents on video where IDF tanks have fired machineguns indiscriminately into crowded bazaars without provocation, so a coverup would not be the least bit surprising.

The UNRWA proposed an inquiry, after which the interviewer asked the Israeli spokesman asked if Israel would accept one. He didn't answer her question, only stated that there was still an ongoing inquiry being done by the UN on an incident that occured in 2007. Doubt the Israelis want the inquiry to done by the UN.

[hongi]

Can someone explain to me what the blockade prior to this offensive, actually achieved?

Furthermore, if the objective of the Israeli military is to reduce the capability of Hamas to fire rockets, is there any doubt that Hamas will be back eventually with more rockets and angrier than before? Barring some off the wall event like the Palestinians overthrowing Hamas, I really don't see the point.

[Count Chocula]

The point seems to be to kill as many Hamas leaders and soldiers as they can get in their sights. If Hamas' leadership, and half their foot soldiers, are dead, Israel may at least get a breather for a few years as Hamas rebuilds to a marginal level of competence.

[hongi]

A breather to do what?

[Broomstick]

Live, raise children, rebuild homes, and hope something changes in the meanwhile. A few years of no missiles falling on their heads. No so much an end but a brief respite before the battles start again.

[[R_H]]

Israel conditionally welcomes cease-fire proposal

GAZA CITY, Gaza — Israel said Wednesday that it "welcomes" an Egyptian-French ceasefire proposal for Gaza as long as such a deal guarantees a halt to militant rockets and weapons smuggling, in a possible sign that a bloody 12-day offensive could be winding down.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said in Paris that both Israel and the moderate Palestinian leadership in charge of the West Bank had accepted the truce proposal, but Israeli officials did not confirm that. Hamas, for its part, said it would only support a deal if it included an opening of Gaza's borders.

In Turkey, meanwhile, a diplomat said that country will be given the task of constructing an international force for Gaza.

Both Israel and Hamas appeared to seek guarantees about the details of a cease-fire, before agreeing to halt the fighting.

Israel said it would support the proposal only if it halts "hostile fire" from Hamas in Gaza and includes measures to prevent the militant group from rearming, said government spokesman Mark Regev.

Hamas said Israel does not seem to be serious about reaching a cease-fire."Israel is still widening and escalating its aggression and is not giving any positive signals in response to these efforts," Ghazi Hammad said.

The precise details of the Egyptian-French proposal remain unclear.

Israel's military scaled back attacks in Gaza for three hours Wednesday to allow food and fuel to reach besieged Palestinians.

[Darth Wong]

Live, raise children, rebuild homes, and hope something changes in the meanwhile. A few years of no missiles falling on their heads. No so much an end but a brief respite before the battles start again.

That's pretty much the story of the last half-century in that worthless armpit of the world: try to get a short-term breather, but make no serious attempt to resolve the long-term issue.

[hongi]

Something needs to change for both sides. 45% of the population in Gaza is under 15. What the hell will they do when they grow up? The unemployment rates in Gaza are sky high, and it'll likely grow even larger if the Hamas government falters. Murderous though they are, they're the freaking government in Gaza and practically the only thing holding it together. If Hamas is the obstacle, so be it, it needs to be removed. But none of this 'reduction of Hamas' rocket capacity' goal. That's futile.

I really, really don't want to believe that hundreds of innocent people have died in the last two weeks because Israel wants half a year of relative peace.

[Broomstick]

Um.... OK, then don't believe it. I'd rather it were not true, but the cynic in me thinks that is indeed the case.

You are correct something needs to change - drastically. Unfortunately, the only changes I can think of that would really change things long term are violent and repugnant in the extreme.

One reason for the large segment of the population being so young is combination of high death rate among the adults (between fighting and poor diet and poor to non-existant health care resulting in short life expectancy relative to the rest of the world) and the population thinking they're under threat of genocide (whether that's an accurate perception or not) leading to high birth rates. The indoctrination of women into the role of producing many, many children for the cause also contributes.

There are quite a few factors at work in this situation, and few of them contribute to less tension. I've said little in this thread because I have no answers at all for this, short of extremely unpleasant ones.

[[R_H]]

On pages seven and eight there was discussion of DU being used in Gaza. I found two articles about that, both of which cite Dr. Mads Gilbert.

Unconventional weapons used against Gazans

Doctor Mads Gilbert is a member of a Norwegian triage medical team present in the besieged Gaza Strip. The team has exposed that Israel has used depleted uranium weapons in its war on the impoverished territory which is home to 1.5 million Palestinians. He described the conditions inside Gaza in an exclusive Press TV interview.

Press TV: What can you tell about the uranium findings?

Dr. Mads Gilbert:The findings about the uranium I cannot tell you much about, but I can tell you that we have clear evidence that the Israelis are using a new type of very high explosive weapons which are called Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME) and are made out of a tungsten alloy.

These weapons have an enormous power to explode.

The power of the explosion dissipates very quickly and the strength does not travel long, maybe 10 meters, but those humans who are hit by this explosion, this pressure wave are cut in pieces.

This was first used in Lebanon in 2006, it was used here in Gaza in 2006 and the injuries that we see in Shifa [Hospital] now, many many of them I suspect and we all suspect are the effect of DIME weapons used by the Israelis.

On the long term, these weapons will have a cancer effect on those who survive. They will develop cancer we suspect. There has been very little research on this but some research has been among other places in the United States, which show that these weapons have a high tendency to develop cancer. So they kill and those who survive risk having cancer.

Press TV: And what do you have to say about this?

Dr. Mads Gilbert:All that is happening in Gaza here now is against international law, it is against humanity and I think it is against what it means to be a decent person. You don't treat other people like this. Even if you disagree with him… maybe even if you fight with them, you don't treat civilians, children and women like this.

And I have an appeal to the Israeli doctors and nurses. They are my colleagues. We belong to the same international community, the medical community. I wish that the good doctors and nurses in Israel tell their government to stop these atrocities. We cannot continue with this. We may differ in opinions, but you cannot treat the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza in this way.

Today, they were bombing in Gaza City; we received 150 wounded and more than 50 killed.

Press TV: Only at Shifa?!

Dr. Mads Gilbert:Yes, here in Shifa. I treated a ten-year-old boy. He had his whole chest filled with fragments from the bomb. On his lap was another person's leg that had been cut off. We resuscitated him and did everything we could do to save his life but he died between our hands.

This is such a terrible experience and behind the numbers that you report all the time, there are human beings, families, women, grandmothers, children. That is in fact the reality in this situation. Those who are paying the price for the Israeli bombardments now are the common people, the Palestinian people.

Half of the population in Palestine are below 15 years and 80 percent of the people in Gaza live below the level of poverty defined by the UN. Now they don't have food, they don't have electricity. It's cold they don't have warmth and in addition to that, they are killed.

This must be stopped.

Press TV How many people did you see that are effected by this weapon?

Dr. Mads Gilbert: Almost all of the patients we have received have these sever amputations. They seem to have been affected by this kind of weapon. Of course, we have many fragment injuries and burns but those who have got their limbs cut off, constitutes quite a large proportion.

You know we have a lot to do. Palestinian doctors, nurses and paramedics do an incredibly heroic job to save their people. Doctor Eric and I are just a small drip in the ocean, but we learn from them. Unfortunately, we don't have the time to do research, we have to save lives, but this question should be researched by the international community.

and from Al-Jazeera

Depleted uranium found in Gaza victims

Medics tell Press TV they have found traces of depleted uranium in some Gazan residents wounded in Israel's ground offensive into the strip.

Norwegian medics told Press TV correspondent Akram al-Sattari that some of the victims who have been wounded since Israel began its attacks on the Gaza Strip on December 27 have traces of depleted uranium in their bodies.

The report comes after Israeli tanks and troops swept across the border into Gaza on Saturday night, opening a ground operation after eight days of intensive attacks by Israeli air and naval forces on the impoverished region.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak warned on Sunday that the wide-ranging ground offensive in the Gaza Strip would be "full of surprises."

A ground offensive in the densely-populated Gaza is expected to drastically increase the death toll of the civilian population.

The latest assaults bring the number of Palestinians killed to over 488 with 2790 others wounded. The UN says that about 25 percent of the casualties were civilian deaths - including at least 34 children.

According to Israeli army officials, at least 30 of its soldiers have been wounded since the start of the ground campaign.

Amid global condemnation of the ongoing violence in the region, the UN Security Council failed to agree on a united approach to resolve the crisis.

" Once again, the world is watching in dismay the dysfunctionality of the Security Council," UN General Assembly chief Miguel d'Escoto said Sunday.

According to diplomatic sources, the US blocked a Security Council resolution, with US Deputy Ambassador Alejandro Wolff arguing that an official statement that criticizes both Israel and Hamas would not be helpful.

The White House has so far declined to comment on whether an Israeli ground incursion into Gaza is a justified measure.

[Count Chocula]

Whoa. An Iranian agency actually gave a more accurate report on the situation than Al-Jazeera.

Quote from Press TV, Iran:

Press TV: What can you tell about the uranium findings?

Dr. Mads Gilbert:The findings about the uranium I cannot tell you much about,

and then goes on to describe weapons using tungsten. As pointed out earlier, tungsten, being a heavy metal, can increase cancer risks. But it's not DU.

Now the Al-Jazeera quote, from the same interview:

Norwegian medics told Press TV correspondent Akram al-Sattari that some of the victims who have been wounded since Israel began its attacks on the Gaza Strip on December 27 have traces of depleted uranium in their bodies.

Same interview, totally different slant. The comments sections under the articles are quite interesting reads as well.

Question time: which site, Press TV or Al Jazeera, is more widely read/viewed in the ME?

[Bilbo]

I can't really see the endgame to all of this.

The IDF have a great plan, 'bomb the crap out of them' but it doesn't really help much in terms of a long term strategic move. You'll just have a bunch of newly pissed off Palestinians, probably a whole new slew of 'volunteer' suicide bombers who have lost everything in this and see a fast ticket to heaven as the way to go and Hamas will HAVE to retaliate directly, even if the IDF finish up and stop their attack right now.

The West Bank Government will look impotent to the people there as it can do nothing but sit to the sidelines and shake its fist as the Gaza strip is pounded, which will probably sideline Mahmoud Abbas completely.

So really, is this just Israeli politics with the election coming up, or is there some kind of goal that I'm just missing, that will be worth it to Israel?

Maybe Israel isnt going to stop till they roll them all into the sea.

You are right there is no solution. Peace-talks with Hamas are a joke. Ceasefires are merely excuses so that terrorists can re-arm, recruit more bombers, and plan more attacks. Hamas (or any other mideast terrorist) has never sat down at a negotiating table with any desire what so ever of working towards peace.

This is not going to end till one side is dead.

[Coyote]

I have some problems with this report from the Noreweigian doctor. The whole thing seems like a series of unsubstantiated claims, backed up by both appeals to authority (he's a doctor, after all! Take his word for it!) and appeals to emotion.

Doctor Mads Gilbert is a member of a Norwegian triage medical team present in the besieged Gaza Strip. The team has exposed that Israel has used depleted uranium weapons in its war on the impoverished territory which is home to 1.5 million Palestinians. He described the conditions inside Gaza in an exclusive Press TV interview.

Press TV: What can you tell about the uranium findings?

Dr. Mads Gilbert:The findings about the uranium I cannot tell you much about

Why not? It is one thing to make a big bold headline and then brush it off by saying, essentially, "I can't/won't back up my claim".

...but I can tell you that we have clear evidence that the Israelis are using a new type of very high explosive weapons which are called Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME) and are made out of a tungsten alloy.

These weapons have an enormous power to explode.

The power of the explosion dissipates very quickly and the strength does not travel long, maybe 10 meters, but those humans who are hit by this explosion, this pressure wave are cut in pieces.

Well, it is a munition, it isn't designed to deliver letters, and if the blast radius is dissipated quickly (within 10 meters) it sounds like an attempt to design a round that lessens damage in built up areas... but let's not kid ourselves, it is a combat weapon and people will be killed & hurt by it. Is he making the accusation that this weapon was employed specifically for inflicting more severe casualties?

Dr. Mads Gilbert:All that is happening in Gaza here now is against international law

Does anyone know if tungsten or DU are, in fact, banned by international law? I know that certain types of munitions are banned because they are "designed to cause unecessary suffering or difigurement" but has there been anything passed on these munitions in particular?

Half of the population in Palestine are below 15 years and 80 percent of the people in Gaza live below the level of poverty defined by the UN. Now they don't have food, they don't have electricity. It's cold they don't have warmth and in addition to that, they are killed.

It is, indeed, unfortunate that the young and poor and miserable are being killed, but does being young and poor and miserable automatically mean that their government (Hamas) intentionally provoking a large, powerful, and unpredictable neighbor (Israel) really made the right judegement call? I recall that when George Bush started an unprovoked, unnecessary war based off personal ideology and short-sighted political gains, in the face of pressing domestic needs, it was largely considered to be a bad call.

and from Al-Jazeera

An unbiased source of information, to be sure.

Medics tell Press TV they have found traces of depleted uranium in some Gazan residents wounded in Israel's ground offensive into the strip.

But could not or would not go into detail or provide evidence; see above.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak warned on Sunday that the wide-ranging ground offensive in the Gaza Strip would be "full of surprises."

And this is relevant to the DU claim... how? By making it appear that the IDF purposefully chose these weapons out of sinister, moustache-twirling choler? Does he have an inside source in the Israeli defense ministry that told him that DU and tungsten rounds were being employed for their abilities to inflict "extra damage"?

However, this does make me wonder-- the hospital is run by the UN; the school is run by the UN... if Hamas is the elected government there, what do they run? If they really don't have to be responsible for any social services, and the UN takes the responsibility, what keeps Hamas accountable to the civilian population? After all, if the schools are shitty, they can blame the UN (or more likely, Israel) and they can go on their merry way without having to answer for any conditions since they don't really have jurisdiction. Is this the way the Gaza Strip is run? It seems like a recipe for disaster, a completely unaccountable government body.

If that is indeed the case, then Hamas really does have but one card to play, and that is to poke Israel until it attacks to draw attention to their miserable state.

[Bilbo]

...but I can tell you that we have clear evidence that the Israelis are using a new type of very high explosive weapons which are called Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME) and are made out of a tungsten alloy.

These weapons have an enormous power to explode.

The power of the explosion dissipates very quickly and the strength does not travel long, maybe 10 meters, but those humans who are hit by this explosion, this pressure wave are cut in pieces.

So the Israelies go out of their way to use ordinance that REDUCES collatoral damage and this fucking moron cries about it? Let me guess, once he heard there was uranium in it (ohhhh SCARY) he started talking out of his ass without doing any thinking.

I guess the dumb fuck would be happier if Israel used standard cluster bombs and iron bombs that send massive shrapnel waves out to hit even more people.

[CJvR]

Never heard of DIME weaponry before. EDIT: Intresting concept...

The research into DIME technology is conducted by the US Air Force Resarch Lab partnered with Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. This technology was demonstrated in a low collateral damage warhead, allowing a "behind-the-wall" threat prosecution with a highly localized lethal footprint. The warhead case consists of a low-density, wrapped carbon-fiber/epoxy matrix integrated with a steel nose and base. The low-density composite case can survive penetration into a one-foot hardened concrete wall.

Upon detonation, the carbon-fiber warhead case disintegrates into small non-lethal fibers with little or no metallic fragments, thus significantly reducing collateral damage to people and structures. The warhead explosive fill is a dense inert metal explosive containing fine tungsten particles to provide a ballasted payload with sufficient penetration mass. The tungsten displaces energetic material so as to reduce the total energetic used. The net results are higher dynamic energy impulse all within a small lethal footprint.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Can someone explain to me what the blockade prior to this offensive, actually achieved?

Less rearmament and less rockets, arms, mines, bombs and other equipment being smuggled. What do you think .
The only way to really blockade the place would be to stop allowing the humanitarian shipments (Since so many of the supplies can be used for weapons, basic rockets, and even to simply fund them), and to blow up the tunnels as was done by planes. (But there are a shitload of tunnels, and they head into Egypt).


Also, has anyone maybe seen an up to date article in English on the past and continued treatment of Palestinians in Israeli hospitals? I found these, but they're lacking, and it's something that never gets mentioned. (The hospitals still being attacked by Hammas, as well as the fact that Hammas violated the truce while it was in effect and attacked immediately after in increasing force).

12 Palestinians hurt in Gaza fighting being treated in Israeli hopsitals
By Fadi Eyadat and Dana Viler-Pollak

Twelve Palestinians have been evacuated to Israel for medical treatment since Operation "Cast Lead" began last Saturday in the Gaza Strip, as the hospitals in Gaza strain to accommodate the hundreds of wounded. For one Gaza boy, being treated in an Israeli hospital should increase his chances of making a full recovery.

About a week and a half ago, before the operation began, 9-year-old Sari Alsamana from Beit Hanoun was playing with his cousin outside his house in the northern Gaza town when a Qassam rocket fired by Gaza militants landed nearby, followed minutes later by an additional rocket strike in the same spot.

Both boys were seriously wounded and taken to Shifa Hospital in Gaza. Last Saturday, as Operation Cast Lead was launched and the Israel Air Force began bombing the Strip, Sari was taken out of the intensive care unit of the hospital as the facility began to overload with Gazans wounded in the IAF strikes.

Sari's condition began to worsen after he was taken out of the hospital, and the family treated him at home hoping for his condition to improve. Later they received a call from a clinic in their neighborhood saying it may be possible for them to pass through the Erez Crossing in order to receive medical care in Israel.

"Now I know he is in good hands, that they will take care of him with devotion," Sari's father Mana said Wednesday from the Tel Hashomer Hospital in Tel Aviv, where he is staying with his son until he recovers from his injuries.

"The atmosphere is different, it's America here. In Gaza there is nothing but fear, cold, hunger, and war," Mana added.

Sari's cousin was released from Shifa Hospital this week, in spite of his being in critical condition.

"They have no room in the hospital, they released him and he is likely to die," Mana said.

On Wednesday, two additional Palestinian children were taken to Israel for treatment, including a 7-year-old with Down's Syndrome who suffered a head injury from an IAF bomb dropped next to his house in Gaza. The boy's father was killed by the bomb and his mother was wounded.

The boy is currently under treatment at the Schneider Children's Hospital in Petach Tikvah, where he arrived in critical condition with serious injuries to his spinal cord and neck. His condition will be assessed again in the coming days

Old, longer article:

Israel's dilemma over sick Gazans

By Raffi Berg
BBC News, Ashkelon, southern Israel

Crying out in pain, Ahmed lies in a hospital bed in Barzilai Medical Centre, his blood-encrusted lower limbs heavily bandaged.

Two weeks earlier, the 17-year-old became another victim of the violence between Israeli forces and Palestinian militants when he lost his left leg, he says, in an Israeli missile strike against militants in Bureij refugee camp in the Gaza Strip.

At first, he was taken to Gaza's Shifa hospital, but with the territory's health system under severe strain after months of Israeli blockade and internal strife, his only hope for life-saving treatment lay in Israel itself.

"We got our permit from the Israeli authorities within 24 hours," said Ahmed's father, Muhammad.

"An ambulance took my son from Shifa to the Erez crossing, where he was transferred to an Israeli ambulance and brought to Barzilai. I used to work in Israel so I wasn't afraid, but for him it is his first time," he said.

Since his arrival at the medical centre in Ashkelon, Ahmed has undergone three operations and he is awaiting a fourth
While some 1,600 Gazan patients had permit requests denied by Israel in 2007, more than 7,000 were allowed in for medical treatment - a 50% increase on 2006 - according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

However, WHO says the proportion of permits denied also increased, from 10% in 2006 to 18.5% in 2007.

Under the 1994 Israeli-Palestinian peace accords, the Palestinian Authority assumed responsibility for health services in the West Bank and Gaza.

However, with tertiary care virtually non-existent in Gaza, Palestinians there are forced to seek such treatment in Israel or beyond.

Barzilai is one of three hospitals in Israel to which most of the cases come, but its proximity to Gaza - just 12km (seven miles) - means it gets those which are most severe.

"We treat hundreds of Gazans here each year," says Dr Ron Lobel, Barzilai's deputy director.

He says there are some five to 15 Gazan patients there at any given time.

"Most are extremely ill, a lot have bullet wounds, but we also treat Palestinians with cancer, kidney and liver diseases who can't get treatment in Gaza."

He says doctors never ask patients how they got their injuries or if they belong to a militant group.

"Even if they're terrorists they're treated like any other person being brought into the emergency room - we make no distinction between treating Israelis or Palestinians."

Most treatment is funded by the Palestinian Authority's health department, although many cases are treated by Israel for free.

Ironically, Barzilai's closeness to Gaza also means the hospital is within range of militants' rockets.

"It's absurd," says Dr Lobel. "We're treating Gazans while coming under fire from their own back yards."

In February, a rocket landed near the hospital's emergency room on the same day that a Palestinian woman from Beit Lahiya in Gaza gave birth there to premature twins.

Although Ahmed's transfer went smoothly, it can be a different experience for many other cases.

Applying for treatment in Israel from Gaza is a complicated process - a patient is first put in touch with the Palestinian Referral Abroad Department (RAD), which has to arrange an appointment with an Israeli hospital before issuing a referral abroad request; the patient must then contact the Palestinian health District Co-ordination Office (DCO), which in turn asks the Israeli health DCO for a permit to pass through Erez crossing.

From there the request is sent to the office of the Co-ordinator of Activities in the Territories (West Bank and Gaza), where Israel's domestic security service examines whether the patient poses a security risk.

If the permit is granted, the patient goes to the Palestinian side of the Erez crossing, where a Palestinian Liaison Officer co-ordinates with an Israeli Liaison Officer to get the patient across.

Even at this point, a patient might end up not crossing if delays there mean they have missed their allotted hospital appointment time, or if the Israeli side of the crossing closes for security reasons.

If a patient fails to cross, he or she must start the referral process again from the beginning.

According to the WHO, 32 Gazans died between October 2007 and March 2008 while waiting for travel permits.

"WHO believes there is a right for everybody to get health care," said Mahmoud Dahar, the organisation's director in Gaza.

"Israel has the most sophisticated security measures at the Erez crossing, so if people are going to carry out attacks, they will be stopped there. No requests should be turned down."

But Israel says it has to balance Gaza's humanitarian needs with its own security.

"The Israeli policy is to facilitate all the medical needs for Gaza," said Maj Peter Lerner, spokesman for the Co-ordinator of Activities in the Territories.

"The only reason a permit would be denied is for security concerns."

He says militants have repeatedly tried to exploit Israel's humanitarian policy to carry out attacks in Israel.

In June 2007, two Palestinian women who had received medical entry permits were arrested at the Erez crossing after it was discovered they planned to blow themselves up in an Israeli hospital, Israeli authorities said.

In 2004, a female suicide bomber who claimed she had surgical plates in her legs blew herself up at the crossing after bypassing the metal detector, killing four Israelis.

"This is why the crossing can't be the first point of verification, there has to be some sort of clearance process beforehand," said Maj Lerner.

The crossing itself has been bombarded over 200 times by mortars, rockets and sniper fire since last June, automatically closing every time.

"It's a dilemma we're dealing with - the terrorists make life very difficult for genuine medical cases, but at the end of the day the vast majority who need treatment in Israel are actually approved."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/m ... 375439.stm
Published: 2008/04/30

[Broomstick]

I don't have any on line links but I've been hearing for a couple decades about Palestinians, including terrorists, being given medical treatment at Israeli hospitals and also about the problems that sometimes generates. John Hockenberry in his book Moving Violations also touches upon that matter.

[Keevan_Colton]

The IvP moratorium still applies.

[Kanastrous]

"Now I know he is in good hands, that they will take care of him with devotion," Sari's father Mana said Wednesday from the Tel Hashomer Hospital in Tel Aviv, where he is staying with his son until he recovers from his injuries.

"The atmosphere is different, it's America here. In Gaza there is nothing but fear, cold, hunger, and war," Mana added.


That kind of leaped out at me.

[Broomstick]

"The atmosphere is different, it's America here. In Gaza there is nothing but fear, cold, hunger, and war," Mana added.[/i]

That kind of leaped out at me.

For all it's faults and problems, America is still seen as a haven for many. Or at least a place where people aren't actively killing each other.