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Say there is incontrovertible proof that when we die, no matter what we do, we're going to hell. God appears to the world and washes his hands of us and says from this point forward, whoever dies goes straight to hell, do not pass go do not collect $200 no exceptions. Yes, even the Pope, yes, innocent babies, yes your grandmother is going to hell.

And no, Atheists, we're not talking about nice peaceful oblivion. We're talking eternity of torment, blood and fire. No respite and no chance of salvation.

How would something like that effect humanity? Would people panic and freak out? Would murderers become the most heinous criminals of all? (Not that they weren't but you get my drift, if you kill someone you are also consigning them to hell for all eternity.) Would having children be seen as reprehensible? Would nations go to war anymore knowing the price their soldiers pay and even if they did would their soldiers fight? Would suicide bombing cease over night? Has religion lost its meaning now that no matter what you say or do you are damned?

Perhaps I'm missing a much more basic reaction. Would humanity simply blow itself up in a fit of suicidal insanity at the prospects facing us?

Or would humanity actually go on, perhaps drop significantly in population but still go on. And on a moral level is it per se evil to have children if you know they will eventually suffer for all eternity?

I don't see how suicide would help...

I think the alternative would be cryogenic suspension prior to death, to keep the soul 'safe' from hell. The earth would become covered with huge warehouses filled with freezing chambers. It wouldn't save folks from accidental death, but its the best we could do.

Alternatively, people might look into creating a 'digital soul' by implanting their mind/memory/what-have-you onto a computer, and at least saving a PART of yourself from hell.

Most people will probably go into suicidal depression, except of course committing suicide won't solve their problem.

A lot of people are probably going to be pretty pissed at this God. I see most religions losing a lot of adherents, although a lot of other people will probably go the route of claiming this is some sort of test or desperately begging God for forgiveness for whatever horrible thing man did to deserve such a fate.

I think the biggest long-term effect will probably be a massive investment in life-prolongation research. People will be desperate to live as long as possible, by whatever means they can. Research into uploading, medical nanotech, genetic engineering, and other possible life-prolongation techniques will probably be getting a lot more money.

I wonder if you can upload your soul...

I could Satanism becoming the dominate religion eventually. Serve Satan get a better seat in hell.

Possibly other faiths like Buddhism would grow rapidly as Buddhism considers the Judeo-Christian God to be a ignorant jerk (BUT they don't exactly go around preaching this one for obvious reasons).

Invictus ChiKen wrote:I wonder if you can upload your soul...

Even if there is such a thing, wouldnt it be the mind? And you could hopefully upload that into a computer or robo-body.

Anyways, what does the soul do? (Seriously, I never bothered to read about these things)

God was turned away by Iron Chariots once before. Are you people all so pathetic as to forget the myths of your ancestors? When the Heroes at Troy wounded the Gods and drove them from the field? When the mortal hand of Rama struck down the demon Ravana after invading Sri Lanka on his bridge of hurled stone? Satan is the Prince of Hell; God may have put him there but he still has princely power and he controls who is to be tortured and who isn't. This is his moment to break free from the cycle-curse. If we can turn away the strength of God with Iron, then let us make common cause with the Prince of Hell and turn on heaven with full fury. Angels can make war; we'll kill them, and we'll drive God from his throne at point of sword, and exhort the moral of the spirits in heaven to rise against the injustice of a God turned against his own word.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:God was turned away by Iron Chariots once before. Are you people all so pathetic as to forget the myths of your ancestors? When the Heroes at Troy wounded the Gods and drove them from the field? When the mortal hand of Rama struck down the demon Ravana after invading Sri Lanka on his bridge of hurled stone? Satan is the Prince of Hell; God may have put him there but he still has princely power and he controls who is to be tortured and who isn't. This is his moment to break free from the cycle-curse. If we can turn away the strength of God with Iron, then let us make common cause with the Prince of Hell and turn on heaven with full fury. Angels can make war; we'll kill them, and we'll drive God from his throne at point of sword, and exhort the moral of the spirits in heaven to rise against the injustice of a God turned against his own word.

Awesome.

Duchess:
I was thinking along similar lines, though not necessarily so drastic. With incontrovertible proof of God's existence and proof that God's an asshole, I could see the study of the supernatural being considered a science. When the cost of failure is eternal torment, I think many people would be strongly supportive of any attempt to secure a nicer afterlife, either by inching towards the idea of overthrowing God or by gaining further understanding of the soul, and how to keep it out of hell.

Except god wasn't driven off by iron.

Back to your regularly scheduled fantasies of potency. I vote we cut Zeon into pieces like Horus to ... handwave handwave... save the world with violence.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:God was turned away by Iron Chariots once before. Are you people all so pathetic as to forget the myths of your ancestors? When the Heroes at Troy wounded the Gods and drove them from the field? When the mortal hand of Rama struck down the demon Ravana after invading Sri Lanka on his bridge of hurled stone? Satan is the Prince of Hell; God may have put him there but he still has princely power and he controls who is to be tortured and who isn't. This is his moment to break free from the cycle-curse. If we can turn away the strength of God with Iron, then let us make common cause with the Prince of Hell and turn on heaven with full fury. Angels can make war; we'll kill them, and we'll drive God from his throne at point of sword, and exhort the moral of the spirits in heaven to rise against the injustice of a God turned against his own word.

Onward, to establish the Republic of Heaven.

In the unlikely event I am wrong, I plan to arrive on Judgement Day with a stack of complaints, a flaming sword of my own devising, and a serious attitude problem.

Honestly? Why not storm Hell? If we're all going anyway, why not take that incontrovertible proof and start working on how to invade? That's a place that needs liberation from a dictator.

And we're all going there anyway. What're they gonna do? Damn us twice?

So, Doom? I like that idea.

Can you bring anything into hell with you in this scenario?

I definitely envision insane fundies reacting in the following way:

"I told you so." to anyone who will listen that Christianity turned out to be the correct religion.

Followed by the more radical, or maybe not so radical, elements launching a Crusade to convert as many people to Christianity as possible and sending everyone else to hell in the hopes God changes his mind.

He won't, in this hypothetical he is completely done with us and no amount of righteous indignation or groveling will bring him back.

On the deals with Hell to make your life a little easier idea, First, why would the devil even treat with us? He's got all our souls guaranteed. We've got no leverage whatsoever. And secondly, if we did try to bargain with him how could you trust him?

I have to say the storming the gates of heaven idea is just too cool for words.

Stravo wrote: I have to say the storming the gates of heaven idea is just too cool for words.

With several divisions of M1 Abrams.

Assuming that it was a well known fact that hell was real and people will definately go there, I'm sure a group with lots of money would set to work figuring out what a soul is, and how to contain it so they wouldn't have to go to hell. And depending on how expensive this treatment is, there will be an enormous amount of jealously between the people who get their souls contained and thsoe who can't It might even become part of a birthing procedure, for those who can't afford it.

Stravo wrote:I have to say the storming the gates of heaven idea is just too cool for words.

How are you even going to get there?

Stravo wrote:And no, Atheists, we're not talking about nice peaceful oblivion. We're talking eternity of torment, blood and fire. No respite and no chance of salvation.

So, Iraq then.

A charismatic personality might be enough, depending on what Hell is like. If it's anything like Dante's version, i.e. damned souls aren't isolated...

On the other hand, if Hell also involves solitary confinement, the "storming hell" strategy might not work so well. In that case, we'd have to turn to stranger tactics. Does this scenario allow for technology that can interact with souls?

As for an alliance with Lucifer, that strikes me as potentially problematic. If the Bible is considered accurate (hah!) in this scenario, he'll be a sneaky, greedy bastard. If he's as bad as, say, the Catholics make him out to be, we'd either have to watch our backs all the time or fight a war on two fronts.

Ghetto edit: first paragraph above is in answer to the "can you bring anything with you to Hell" question. D'oh.

The existence of incontrovertible proof of the existence and nature of Heaven, God, Hell, and Satan means that there would be objective evidence that could be used for scientific analysis of all of the above.

In all seriousness, I would foresee intensive scientific research in that case, particularly with respect to developing countermeasures against our newfound spiritual enemies.

In short ... who you gonna call?

Whoa, I missed the part where the thread was about making up fantasy nonsense about 'hell'. I hear it's like Dante's Inferno... for no reason.

I declare that since Hell is like the Sandman version and you're only punished because you are victim-obsessed religious nutbars, that there's not a problem. I can, however, laugh at the hilarious idea of inmates of hell with delusions of grandeur deciding they're going to 'take over heaven' and being allowed to constantly fuck it up amongst endless suffering ... just like everyone else in hell.

I mean, nobody ever thought of attacking heaven before, right? Certainly not emo 14 year old boys!

In many portrayals of hell, the person is sent there with the clothes he was wearing when he died. Therefore I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that you get sent to hell with whatever you are "equipped" with. So if you were holding a machine gun when you died, maybe you would be sent with that.

How numerous and durable are the local inhabitants of hell in this scenario?

Oh yeah, I bet guys with guns never showed up in hell before!

What are you, fucking retarded?

Stark wrote:Oh yeah, I bet guys with guns never showed up in hell before!

What are you, fucking retarded?

Well, actually, the source material for the Bible ends roughly 2000 years ago, and according to this scenario, the next time we finally hear from God, he's saying "I'm outta here!" Maybe he's scared.

I'm running with Zablorg's retarded 'you teleport to hell with equipment intact' 'scenario'. If true millions of armed men have showed up in hell, sometimes tens of thousands a day.

Stravo's thread has been somewhat sidetracked from his usual social discussions into hilarious 'let's blow up heaven' tomfoolery.