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My opponent has attempted to justify genocide...
Posted: 2009-08-03 12:11pm
by Dave
Christian Research Institute wrote:
The Canaanites: How Could a Just God Command His People to Destroy an Entire Nation?
Have you ever heard a skeptic point to the violence chronicled in Scripture and then try to discredit God and His Word? They point out the fact that God commands the Israelites, for example, to wipe out the Canaanites including women, children, and even cattle. If that doesn’t prove that God is unjust, what will?
Some find it hard to understand why God would use Israel as his instrument to annihilate an entire race of people like the Canaanites. Why did he? The answer is simply this. The nations which Israel destroyed had degenerated dramatically. In fact, archaeologists have given us a glimpse of how evil the inhabitants of Palestine had actually become. They were involved in bestiality, incest, molestation, homosexuality, prostitution — and if that’s not enough, they even sacrificed their children to idols. In fact, the entire land had become so contaminated that God, who truly sees the big picture, decided for the good of mankind that they had to be destroyed.
And let’s not forget that the Canaanites and Amelikites couldn’t claim they didn’t know any better. They were fully aware that God had chosen Israel to be a tool in His hands in bringing judgement to the nations.
It’s clear from history, God gave them ample time to repent, but they refused (Gen. 15:16; Deut. 7:22). And as a consequence, God used Israel to bring judgement upon them. And lest anyone accuse God of being unfair, there is ample Biblical evidence that if there were any righteous in the land, God would have spared them just like He spared Rahab when Jericho was destroyed (Josh. 6:25 df. Gen. 18:22f; Num. 31:35).
Now let me make one more point. While murder is a direct violation of the sixth commandment, not all forms of killing represent murder. To kill someone in self-defense or to execute someone for a capitol offense is justifiable. The fact is, justice demands that war criminals like the Nazis be put to death. As scholar Walter Kaiser puts it, war is “God’s ultimate, but reluctant, method of treating gross evil that resists every other patient and loving rebuke of God.” (Toward Old Testament Ethics, 1983:178).
On the question of God’s justice in light of His command to wipe out the Canaanites (and the Amelekites), that’s the CRI Perspective. I’m Hank Hanegraaff.
My mother sent me this link after I questioned the legitimacy of God endorsing genocide (in the middle of her Sunday School class).
I was planning on:
(1) blowing it off laughably (I mean, seriously, you're defending genocide) and
(2) giving the example of Nazi Germany, where we only executed the major offenders and actually assisted in rebuilding the country for the rest of the Germans.
(3) Questioning why bestiality, homosexuality and prostitution were immoral.
Any other suggestions?
Re: My opponent has attempted to justify genocide...
Posted: 2009-08-03 01:58pm
by Thanas
You know, anyone who actually arguest that way in the first place is so far gone that your arguments could be written and signed by god himself, they wouldn't matter.
Re: My opponent has attempted to justify genocide...
Posted: 2009-08-03 08:55pm
by Samuel
In fact, archaeologists have given us a glimpse of how evil the inhabitants of Palestine had actually become. They were involved in bestiality, incest, molestation, homosexuality, prostitution — and if that’s not enough, they even sacrificed their children to idols.
Uh, the idol thing was Carthage. As for the rest, how does molestation leave archeological evidence? Lets not forget many other cultures had those practices and were not erased.
In fact, the entire land had become so contaminated that God, who truly sees the big picture, decided for the good of mankind that they had to be destroyed.
So people ability to ignore God is greater than his ability to mind control them? That is pretty pathetic.
And let’s not forget that the Canaanites and Amelikites Jews couldn’t claim they didn’t know any better. They were fully aware that God had chosen Israel Germany to be a tool in His hands in bringing judgement to the nations.
The fact is, justice demands that war criminals like the Nazis be put to death.
So God demands those who do crimes against him be punished by death? Are you suggesting the list of villany includes prostitution and homosexuality so that we should have the death penalty for sodomy and sex outside of marriage?
Thanas wrote:You know, anyone who actually arguest that way in the first place is so far gone that your arguments could be written and signed by god himself, they wouldn't matter.
Should we argue that? God told me you are full of shit? It would be good for the humor value at least.
Re: My opponent has attempted to justify genocide...
Posted: 2009-08-03 09:00pm
by Thanas
Samuel wrote:In fact, archaeologists have given us a glimpse of how evil the inhabitants of Palestine had actually become. They were involved in bestiality, incest, molestation, homosexuality, prostitution — and if that’s not enough, they even sacrificed their children to idols.
Uh, the idol thing was Carthage.
ANd that is a much debated thing in historical circles - there is no clear cut proof they ever sacrificed live children or any children to the gods. The only literary evidence we have is from biased roman sources and the archeological evidence is inconclusive afaik.
Re: My opponent has attempted to justify genocide...
Posted: 2009-08-10 01:38pm
by Darth Wong
Let's see: "bestiality, incest, molestation, homosexuality, prostitution — and if that’s not enough, they even sacrificed their children to idols."
Item #1: "Bestiality". Bestiality is not a death penalty offense today. Why would it be a justification for genocide?
Item #2: "Incest". The entire Biblical story of human origins is based on incest. Adam and Eve's offspring must have committed incest by definition since there were no other families. And if that wasn't enough, God supposedly slaughtered every human on Earth except for Noah's family, thus forcing them to use incest again in order to repopulate the species.
Item #3: "Molestation". Here's a nice Biblical quote: "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." Moses' instructions to his men, in Numbers 3:18. Looks like the Jews had no problem with molestation as long as they were the ones doing it.
Item #4: "Prostitution". Since when is legalization of prostitution a crime worthy of genocide? Should we exterminate the population of Amsterdam?
Item #5: "They even sacrificed their children to idols". Here's a little reminder: Abraham was praised in the Bible for his willingness to sacrifice his own son Isaac to God. Oops! It takes a special kind of hypocrisy for a Christian to argue that the Canaanites deserved to be exterminated for their supposed willingness to do the same. And it's hard to justify butchering the children of Canaan because you feel that they might have been killed. If I walked up to you and said "I must kill you so that you will not be sacrificed to an idol", you would justifiably ask what kind of bizarre logic I'm using.
In summary, every one of the crimes listed, some of which are greater or lesser than others, pales in comparison to the crime of genocide. To use any or all of them to justify genocide is utterly perverse.
Re: My opponent has attempted to justify genocide...
Posted: 2009-08-10 03:24pm
by Frank Hipper
An omnipotent, omniscient, and perfect being is capable of creating something that is displeasing to him, and he's incapable of taking care of the problem himself.
So, he assigns the task of eradication to the super-special part of his creation that he actually likes?
Re: My opponent has attempted to justify genocide...
Posted: 2009-08-10 05:53pm
by Oskuro
It’s clear from history, God gave them ample time to repent, but they refused (Gen. 15:16; Deut. 7:22).
Equating the Bible to History, aaaaaand there goes my willingness to take this seriously at all.
I was actually expecting the article to claim that archeological finds of pre-Sapiens humans were the degenerated societies mentioned, or some other actual historical fact used to justify their point of view, but no, they won't even go as far as try to spin-doctor actual fact to say what they need.
