RazorOutlaw wrote:Broomstick wrote:Well, if someone doesn't have to worry about cost and income, sure, study whatever you want.
She really doesn't have to worry about cost or income. On her own she is a hard worker with the animal shelter she is running (and now, the family members whose sicknes she has to deal with) but the fact that both of her parents worked for the college she attended allows her to go there for free. Now two classes away from completing the requirements for her degree, she actually has the option of starting a new degree entirely. The only condition for her tuition to remain free is that she not graduate.
Under those circumstances, as long as she fulfills the other responsibilities in her life, I see no reason NOT to study whatever she wants.
I was raised with the notion that you can do whatever you want with your life under two conditions:
1) You don't hurt anyone else by doing it
2) You can take care of adult responsibilities while doing (that's rent/mortgage, food on the table, bills paid, children/relatives cared for, etc.)
The thing a lot of people stumble over is that doing what you want and being rich are not always compatible. You can actually have a damn fine life despite poverty, but it's also true that being rich lets you be miserable in comfort.
My personal feeling is that she was too sheltered from the idea of needing to pay student loans, or having to pay for anything really, that she couldn't see that "don't worry about what you're going to do with it" was bad advice to ANYBODY.
It is certainly possible she is naive about surviving in the world outside of college and study. Can't say without knowing her personally.
Broomstick wrote:Hey, I studied Fine Arts - a bit of a risk, that. I also had a fallback plan, and paid off my loans and supported myself while doing so.
Right, I actually had you in mind when I mentioned the art degree in my OP. I held you as an example, in my mind anyway, of someone who succeeded with an art degree but then you're one of those people who is really devoted to the subject.
(As a side note your speaking up a few times in defense of art degrees allowed me some mental breathing room to appreciate my love of philosophy)
Not sure if most people would view me as "successful" right now, given my finances, but I'm hoping this bump in the road smoothes out after awhile.
But in accordance with the conditions I listed above, for the most part I've been a responsible adult for the past 25 years or so.
There's nothing wrong with pursing a career in the arts as long as someone is fully informed about the decision to do so. Just like any other path in life there are consequences to the decision, some good and some bad.
Kanastrous wrote:How does he know?
Not to break the theoretical example but AFAIK business majors tend to make more money than art majors. Purely for the sake of finding a job post-bacc, might someone go with a business degree?
Yes, on average a business degree will result in greater wealth than an art degree. The few big-name, big-money artists are
exceptions, not the rule. In fact, most professional artists have to supplement their artwork income with other money, particularly early in their career. This is something I caution young people contemplating an art career about - you might be able to sell your work but still not have it support you full time. That applies equally to visual artists, musicians, writers, actors...
The fact I
married a musician only compounded the problem in my case. Although the Other Half
does have a degree in mechanical engineering which has brought in some money in the past. And my sister, who played professionally with a symphony for several years with her music degree, later acquired three other degrees which substantially improved her income level. You note the pattern here - these folks all have a back up plan or skills to help keep the roof overhead and the refrigerator full.
It's comparable to people who go into medical school who are told that, during their training, they pretty much have to give up all their other interests to get through it (not always true, but you're best off assuming that will be the case). That's part of the price of getting up the ladder. You have to make some sacrifices and compromises, and in the case of the arts there is no guarantee of a big pay off so you had better love what you're doing, because at times that will be your ONLY compensation!
Kanastrous wrote:I'm a a little bit tired of what seems like a prevalent idea that you can't earn a living having a fine arts degree. Sure you can. If you're actually good at the work and understand your field.
Eh... being good and understanding your field is essential, yes, but it's very important to know that in the arts there is NO guarantee of a big payoff. There is an element of luck (so when opportunity knocks you'd better be ready to knock!)
Because I was able to "translate" some of my fine arts skills to corporate America I was able to get a nice office job for a long stretch of years, which definitely had some benefits, but that isn't always possible, either.
-Every job has it's great bits and its shitty bits. If you are really passionate about something, having to do those shitty bits around the bits you love may put you off it. Your job may actually be worse than one which you just do to get by while doing what you are passionate about in your spare time.
Oh, my - this is SO TRUE! Nothing can ruin a favorite hobby like making a job out of it!
-The whole idea of a degree is to kickstart a career. For a LOT of subjects, certainly most arts ones, experience seems more valuable than education, so three years working your way up the your chosen field is often more valuable and enjoyable than lectures and exams. And you might get paid for it instead of paying for it.
Um... yes and no. The purpose of a degree is to
educate you, which often has the effect of kick-starting a career, but the fact is many, if not most, people wind up doing something entirely different than what they went to college for, at least in the US (other countries may be different, of course - I can speak only of the American experience)
Yes, you certainly CAN make it big in the arts without a degree, but getting a degree is far from useless. In some fields, such as classical music, it's pretty much required (not so much for rock and roll). Formal study of a subject can fill in gaps that frequently occur when a subject is self-taught.
2) Could you clarify this? Are you saying that although I may do what I like there could be shitty party that make me hate it?
I realize this was not directed specifically at me but yes, that may be true. I've seen it happen to people. I think the closest I came to really experiencing this was my stint working in comic books as an artist - prior to that I was quite the fan, played around with my own ideas, etc. After... well, I stopped buying them, reading them, pretty much dumped them out of my life. Put my collection in a box and literally did not look at it for twenty years. Didn't rekindle my interest until the Spiderman and X-men movies came out. Yeah, sometimes when you do what you love you find out you don't actually love it after all, and it can even turn into hate.
3) I've heard this explanation before and it put me at ease at the time. It's not so much the degree itself but the skills acquired. Yet I come here, read the criticisms of more easily obtained degrees, and I'm suddenly very uncertain.
There's a difference between pursuing an "easy" degree because you're lazy and doing so because you
really like the subject. Also, there is a certain disconnect and failure to realize that obtaining an engineering degree, a Ph.D, an M.D., or some other degrees
really is MUCH more difficult in many ways than getting a BS in English or History. There is nothing wrong with English or History degrees, but people embarking on them are frequently ill-informed as to possible consequences. If you have an MD you are pretty much guaranteed to have a job and make significant money once your training is over. If you get a bachelor's in English your training is much shorter and much less expensive, but you are also much less likely to get rich off it, and you have far fewer guarantees in regards to employment.
If one doesn't have the math chops for some of the more impressive degrees, your funding is limited, and you will need to be truly self-supporting in just a few years then getting an "easy" degree might, in fact, make the most sense. After you walk out the door of the college you find a job and you won't be able to find a really, really lucrative job but you should be able to get
something to keep a roof overhead while you contemplate your next step - which might be finding a means to get more education, or deciding that your current situation is fine for the time being.
So much comes down to the
person - a highly motivated person can go to a shit college, get an "easy" degree, and then go on to very big things down the road. An unmotivated person can go to a top college, get a very impressive degree, then wind up living in mom's basement.