Heaven & Free will - is there any flaw in this argument?
Posted: 2011-06-12 06:12pm
Okay, this isn't about something i am currently debating, but i recently came up with this argument and wanted to check it for logical flaws or possible rebuttals.
Anyway, christians tend to argue that god cherishes free will. That is given as the reason why Hell is a "just" punishment - because we choose so out of our own free will. Supposedly god can not give us free that precludes the possibility of sin.
At the same time, they claim that there will be no sin in Heaven - after all it's supposed to be a perfect place. However, if that is possible, then one of the following must be true: either there is no free will in Heaven OR you have free will without sin in Heaven. A claim like "oh we would not want to commit sins anymore" would fall into the second category, while a "there would be no need for sins anymore" begs the question why god does not do the same thing on Earth.
Hence, the original argument that free will must include the possibility for sin can not be true.
One possible rebuttal i see is that there is sin in Heaven, but it's still a perfect place. But if we accept that, then sins do not automatically inflict harm, or otherwise Heaven would not be a perfect place. Hence, punishment for sinning would be unjust, since no harm is done. The "it does insult god"-argument doesn't apply either - why should an action on Earth harm god more than an action in Heaven?
Then of course they might just admit that Heaven is not a perfect place, but i just don't see any christian actually doing that. So far i have found no rebuttal to this, other than possibly some bible quotes.
So far, i have been unable to find any logical flaws in this argument. Nor have i found any actual rebuttals (other than weaseling out and the one mentioned). Please try to find either so that i may refine this argument.
Anyway, christians tend to argue that god cherishes free will. That is given as the reason why Hell is a "just" punishment - because we choose so out of our own free will. Supposedly god can not give us free that precludes the possibility of sin.
At the same time, they claim that there will be no sin in Heaven - after all it's supposed to be a perfect place. However, if that is possible, then one of the following must be true: either there is no free will in Heaven OR you have free will without sin in Heaven. A claim like "oh we would not want to commit sins anymore" would fall into the second category, while a "there would be no need for sins anymore" begs the question why god does not do the same thing on Earth.
Hence, the original argument that free will must include the possibility for sin can not be true.
One possible rebuttal i see is that there is sin in Heaven, but it's still a perfect place. But if we accept that, then sins do not automatically inflict harm, or otherwise Heaven would not be a perfect place. Hence, punishment for sinning would be unjust, since no harm is done. The "it does insult god"-argument doesn't apply either - why should an action on Earth harm god more than an action in Heaven?
Then of course they might just admit that Heaven is not a perfect place, but i just don't see any christian actually doing that. So far i have found no rebuttal to this, other than possibly some bible quotes.
So far, i have been unable to find any logical flaws in this argument. Nor have i found any actual rebuttals (other than weaseling out and the one mentioned). Please try to find either so that i may refine this argument.