Are Atheists More Depressed than Religious People?

[Iceberg]

Well, I've become fairly convinced that the Divine Plan is more like a Divine Outline that God threw together about five minutes before the game started some 20 billion years ago, and He's pretty much winging it as He goes along.

So.... God is essentially a high school-college student who was ill-prepared for his class exam?

Pretty much, yeah.

What can I say, I grew up on The Far Side.

[VF5SS]

Well I'm pretty depressed right now, I'm not sure how talking to the walls could make me fell better.

[Durandal]

What about God's will? If you pray to him, and he doesn't answer your prayers, what do you say? "Well, it was God's will that Jenna Jameson didn't teleport over here and suck my dick like a Hoover." If it's God's will, and he's going to do what he wants to, anyway, why bother praying?

[Darth Wong]

What about God's will? If you pray to him, and he doesn't answer your prayers, what do you say? "Well, it was God's will that Jenna Jameson didn't teleport over here and suck my dick like a Hoover." If it's God's will, and he's going to do what he wants to, anyway, why bother praying?

So it IS God's will that Jenna Jameson won't suck Iceberg's dick like a Hoover?

[Durandal]

So it IS God's will that Jenna Jameson won't suck Iceberg's dick like a Hoover?

It wasn't in the Divine Plan. At the very least, it's not God's will that Jenna Jameson suck Iceberg's dick like a Hoover.

[VF5SS]

What about God's will? If you pray to him, and he doesn't answer your prayers, what do you say? "Well, it was God's will that Jenna Jameson didn't teleport over here and suck my dick like a Hoover." If it's God's will, and he's going to do what he wants to, anyway, why bother praying?

Because people don't skip right to his will and they should also watch more George Carlin.

[Durandal]

Indeed. :D

[VF5SS]

I saw him last night in Boston. His new stuff was about a Suicide Channel. Must Die TV! And to keep on topic he did talk about the christians Jumping For Jesus with a little jump cam...

[Iceberg]

What about God's will? If you pray to him, and he doesn't answer your prayers, what do you say? "Well, it was God's will that Jenna Jameson didn't teleport over here and suck my dick like a Hoover." If it's God's will, and he's going to do what he wants to, anyway, why bother praying?

So it IS God's will that Jenna Jameson won't suck Iceberg's dick like a Hoover?

Sadly, all indicators seem to point to "no."

EDIT: On the other hand, life is long. And strange.

[Durandal]

I saw him last night in Boston. His new stuff was about a Suicide Channel. Must Die TV! And to keep on topic he did talk about the christians Jumping For Jesus with a little jump cam...

I saw him in Chicago last February. The suicide bit was hysterical, but I don't remember a "Jumping for Jesus" bit. What was it about?

[Spoonist]

Are atheists more depressed?

Yes of course. It is quite depressing trying to debate logic with religious people.

[VF5SS]

I saw him last night in Boston. His new stuff was about a Suicide Channel. Must Die TV! And to keep on topic he did talk about the christians Jumping For Jesus with a little jump cam...

I saw him in Chicago last February. The suicide bit was hysterical, but I don't remember a "Jumping for Jesus" bit. What was it about?

He said that when the suicide channel did the jumping off the grand canyon bit, the didn't want to leave out the Christians so he did "Jumping For Jesus!"

[Newtonian Fury]

I know a couple deeply devout Christians who are very happy and successful. They're also my friends. I will also admit that I'm nowhere as happy as they are. But do I think it's because of religion that gives them happiness and success? No. My family is just more dysfuntional than theirs( ). I think that they would be just as well no matter what their faith.

On the other hand, I really don't want to be "happy" in the way some Christians are. It's probably a psychological thing. I prefer to be in conflict with someone, something, or some ideal. Not blind conflict, mind you. I just don't like to conform with things that I do not agree. Since Christianity is so prevalent in the U.S. government, I am happily in conflict.

[Antediluvian]

Well, in my case, I'm much happier and secure now that I've ditched Christianity. It only served as a source of fear and guilt and a roadblock to reason. Becoming an atheist was one of the best decisions I've ever made.

Same here, except I didn't become an athiest, but an agnostic.

On-Topic: I don't think athiests and other secular people are more depressed than religious people. Depression depends on many other factors besides what you believe. Aren't some people genetically more prone to depression than others?

[Nick]

Well, in my case, I'm much happier and secure now that I've ditched Christianity. It only served as a source of fear and guilt and a roadblock to reason. Becoming an atheist was one of the best decisions I've ever made.

Same here, except I didn't become an athiest, but an agnostic.

Question: When you choose a course of action, do you consider God's opinion, or other factors relating to a transcendental realm?

I called myself an agnostic for a while - until I really thought about my answer to the above question. Calling yourself an atheist doesn't mean you have to believe 100% that there is no transcendent realm - it just means that you don't take the possibility of such a realm into account when you are making decisions.

On-Topic: I don't think athiests and other secular people are more depressed than religious people.

You didn't read the original article, did you? It suggests that committed atheists (i.e. people who have come to a firm conclusion that atheism is the best approach to dealing with life) are less likely to be depressed than most other groups (i.e. lukewarm atheists, lukewarm believers, fervent believers).

Depression depends on many other factors besides what you believe. Aren't some people genetically more prone to depression than others?

Yes to the genetic point - but we're generally not talking about clinical depression here. The most positive outlook in the world isn't going to achieve jack if your brain chemicals are sufficiently out of balance (and a diagnosis of clinical depression almost certainly indicates an actual problem with the brain chemistry). The genetic link involves inherited problems with the brain chemistry - mild forms of this can be ameliorated by personal philosophy, severe forms can't.

On the other point, that depression depends on many factors, you are correct.

However, in addition to the direct causal effect of removing many possible triggers for depression (e.g. the Christian doctrines of individual powerlessness and worthlessness, along with inherent sinfulness), positive atheism is inversely related to depression in a classic case of "common cause". The same attitudes and thought processes that can lead to the firm adoption of atheism as a philosophical viewpoint, also have a tendency to promote resistance to depression that is not the result of chemical imbalances.

Consider the following possible correlations:

1. High Self-esteem
Being a committed atheist requires accepting that there is no transcendental realm to give your existence meaning. Your only value lies in the fact that you are you. If you can accept this, then your self-esteem is constructed on an unshakeable recognition of your own worth due to your uniqueness. Such rock-solid self-esteem is a great counter to depression brought on by questioning your own worth and contribution to society/humanity/the Universe.

2. Independence of Thought
Being a committed atheist often requires independence of thought. It is a viewpoint for someone who is always willing to question things, even their own beliefs. However, because you have been ruthless in questioning your own beliefs, it is much easier to accept that others criticisms of you are their problem, not yours. This can help counter depression brought on by criticism from others.

3. Recognition of Limits
Being a committed atheist is likely to involve recognising the true scale of the universe, and the fact that our powers are limited. It may also involve the ability to recognise when events are beyond our power to influence. In which case, why waste time and energy on worry or frustration? Again, a great way to counter depression brought by your powerlessness to affect events.

4. Self-awareness
Being a committed atheist will often involve ruthless self-assessment, and questioning of your own actions and motivations. Understanding your own feelings, and why you feel and act the way you do is another great way to counter depression (or at least recognise it, so you can ride it out).

5. Acceptance & understanding of reality
Being a committed atheist generally involves accepting the preeminence of reality. We might wish things were otherwise, but that is just idle fancy unless it is within our power to do something about it. This is yet another good counter to depression and frustration - understanding how things came to pass may not make them any less irritating to deal with, but it makes it easier to accept the existence of such stupidity.

6. Self-determination
Being a committed atheist requires accepting that there is nothing external to provide meaning to your life. The only meaning your life has is that which you put there. A self-selected purpose is always going to be a better motivator than one which is dictated from on high. And this identification of purpose is yet another good counter for depression (this time depression about the pointlessness of it all).

Obviously, those six points are based on my own point of view, flavoured by what the article had to say. Not all of them are going to apply to every atheist, but even one or two of them is going to be a big help in avoiding depression. And even then, occasional depression is still likely to happen - strong emotions have to subside before rationality can kick in. For example, I'll often get genuinely depressed and frustrated about the general stupidity of the corporate world, and humans in general. Other times I'll ask that fatal question "What's the point? No, I mean really, what's the point?".

The trick is that I can tell when I've encountered one of those bouts of depression, and recognise it for what it is - and simply knowing that I'll get over it ("It'll all seem better in the morning") works wonders. That self-awareness also means I know how best to get myself out of those sorts of moods - go get some exercise, come here and rant about something, read some like-minded philosophy, find someone to talk to, or, as suggested above, get a decent night's sleep. (Hell, it's even possible that those occasional moods do have a slight chemical imbalance behind them. They aren't a big enough issue that I am ever likely to bother finding out, though)

The interesting point here is that often the atheists who are studied and found to be "more depressed", or "without a moral compass" are not those who have selected atheism as a conscious choice, but rather those who have selected it is a sort of 'default option'. They haven't really adopted atheism - they have simply abandoned their faith (e.g. because of conflicts with religious authorities, or because of some personal tragedy). They haven't addressed the issues of self-worth, personal meaning, and morality that conscious atheism demands that you address. Given that they have abandoned the answers previously supplied by their faith, and haven't replaced them with the consciously determined attitudes of positive atheism, it is hardly any wonder they get depressed! No basis for their sense of self worth, no sense of personal meaning, and no identified basis for their system of morality. I'd be pretty damned depressed, too!

For anyone who has seen Signs, Mel Gibson's character is a classic example of the sort of atheist I describe in the last paragraph.

[Slartibartfast]

Why would praying to a saint make a difference? Either what you want is part of God's "Divine Plan," or it isn't. If what you're praying for isn't in God's Divine Plan, he won't give it to you. If it is in the Divine Plan, you'll get it anyway, regardless of whether or not you pray.

Praying to a saint will get you better results because saints are like the lawyers of heaven, they know all the neat tricks to make God listen to them

Also, praying to the correct saint may grant you a small increase to Charisma and Intelligence, and a modest increase to Perception, weapon skills and Riding.

[Antediluvian]

Well, in my case, I'm much happier and secure now that I've ditched Christianity. It only served as a source of fear and guilt and a roadblock to reason. Becoming an atheist was one of the best decisions I've ever made.

Same here, except I didn't become an athiest, but an agnostic.

Question: When you choose a course of action, do you consider God's opinion, or other factors relating to a transcendental realm?

I called myself an agnostic for a while - until I really thought about my answer to the above question. Calling yourself an atheist doesn't mean you have to believe 100% that there is no transcendent realm - it just means that you don't take the possibility of such a realm into account when you are making decisions.

On-Topic: I don't think athiests and other secular people are more depressed than religious people.

You didn't read the original article, did you? It suggests that committed atheists (i.e. people who have come to a firm conclusion that atheism is the best approach to dealing with life) are less likely to be depressed than most other groups (i.e. lukewarm atheists, lukewarm believers, fervent believers).

Depression depends on many other factors besides what you believe. Aren't some people genetically more prone to depression than others?

Yes to the genetic point - but we're generally not talking about clinical depression here. The most positive outlook in the world isn't going to achieve jack if your brain chemicals are sufficiently out of balance (and a diagnosis of clinical depression almost certainly indicates an actual problem with the brain chemistry). The genetic link involves inherited problems with the brain chemistry - mild forms of this can be ameliorated by personal philosophy, severe forms can't.

On the other point, that depression depends on many factors, you are correct.

However, in addition to the direct causal effect of removing many possible triggers for depression (e.g. the Christian doctrines of individual powerlessness and worthlessness, along with inherent sinfulness), positive atheism is inversely related to depression in a classic case of "common cause". The same attitudes and thought processes that can lead to the firm adoption of atheism as a philosophical viewpoint, also have a tendency to promote resistance to depression that is not the result of chemical imbalances.

Consider the following possible correlations:

1. High Self-esteem
Being a committed atheist requires accepting that there is no transcendental realm to give your existence meaning. Your only value lies in the fact that you are you. If you can accept this, then your self-esteem is constructed on an unshakeable recognition of your own worth due to your uniqueness. Such rock-solid self-esteem is a great counter to depression brought on by questioning your own worth and contribution to society/humanity/the Universe.

2. Independence of Thought
Being a committed atheist often requires independence of thought. It is a viewpoint for someone who is always willing to question things, even their own beliefs. However, because you have been ruthless in questioning your own beliefs, it is much easier to accept that others criticisms of you are their problem, not yours. This can help counter depression brought on by criticism from others.

3. Recognition of Limits
Being a committed atheist is likely to involve recognising the true scale of the universe, and the fact that our powers are limited. It may also involve the ability to recognise when events are beyond our power to influence. In which case, why waste time and energy on worry or frustration? Again, a great way to counter depression brought by your powerlessness to affect events.

4. Self-awareness
Being a committed atheist will often involve ruthless self-assessment, and questioning of your own actions and motivations. Understanding your own feelings, and why you feel and act the way you do is another great way to counter depression (or at least recognise it, so you can ride it out).

5. Acceptance & understanding of reality
Being a committed atheist generally involves accepting the preeminence of reality. We might wish things were otherwise, but that is just idle fancy unless it is within our power to do something about it. This is yet another good counter to depression and frustration - understanding how things came to pass may not make them any less irritating to deal with, but it makes it easier to accept the existence of such stupidity.

6. Self-determination
Being a committed atheist requires accepting that there is nothing external to provide meaning to your life. The only meaning your life has is that which you put there. A self-selected purpose is always going to be a better motivator than one which is dictated from on high. And this identification of purpose is yet another good counter for depression (this time depression about the pointlessness of it all).

Obviously, those six points are based on my own point of view, flavoured by what the article had to say. Not all of them are going to apply to every atheist, but even one or two of them is going to be a big help in avoiding depression. And even then, occasional depression is still likely to happen - strong emotions have to subside before rationality can kick in. For example, I'll often get genuinely depressed and frustrated about the general stupidity of the corporate world, and humans in general. Other times I'll ask that fatal question "What's the point? No, I mean really, what's the point?".

The trick is that I can tell when I've encountered one of those bouts of depression, and recognise it for what it is - and simply knowing that I'll get over it ("It'll all seem better in the morning") works wonders. That self-awareness also means I know how best to get myself out of those sorts of moods - go get some exercise, come here and rant about something, read some like-minded philosophy, find someone to talk to, or, as suggested above, get a decent night's sleep. (Hell, it's even possible that those occasional moods do have a slight chemical imbalance behind them. They aren't a big enough issue that I am ever likely to bother finding out, though)

The interesting point here is that often the atheists who are studied and found to be "more depressed", or "without a moral compass" are not those who have selected atheism as a conscious choice, but rather those who have selected it is a sort of 'default option'. They haven't really adopted atheism - they have simply abandoned their faith (e.g. because of conflicts with religious authorities, or because of some personal tragedy). They haven't addressed the issues of self-worth, personal meaning, and morality that conscious atheism demands that you address. Given that they have abandoned the answers previously supplied by their faith, and haven't replaced them with the consciously determined attitudes of positive atheism, it is hardly any wonder they get depressed! No basis for their sense of self worth, no sense of personal meaning, and no identified basis for their system of morality. I'd be pretty damned depressed, too!

For anyone who has seen Signs, Mel Gibson's character is a classic example of the sort of atheist I describe in the last paragraph.

No, I don't consider any supernatural being's influence in my decisions.

And I wasn't disputing that commited athiests are less likely to be depressed, but that secular people aren't any more likely to be depressed or have a greater susceptibility to it than those of a religious bent. And besides, I was answering the topic's question, okay?

Otherwise, we seem to more or less agree.

[Larz]

I am not depressed about being an atheist ::looks at sharp objects...::

Actually, I'm far happier then when I used to conform to a set of christan beliefs. I don't worry about my afterlife, I don't worry about gods will, I don't worry if I'm following the lord, and all my beliefs now make sense to me. I'm a better person thanks to atheism. Thank you logic!

[Nick]

No, I don't consider any supernatural being's influence in my decisions.

Just curious - by my definition that makes you an atheist, but I've found plenty of people who disagree with my definition since it doesn't allow for agnosticism as a category

And I wasn't disputing that commited athiests are less likely to be depressed, but that secular people aren't any more likely to be depressed or have a greater susceptibility to it than those of a religious bent. And besides, I was answering the topic's question, okay?

I certainly didn't think you thought that (yipes, that's an ugly sentence. . .). It was just that the way you phrased your response made it sound like you were being defensive - and the original link I posted was to a piece of research that supports our point of view.

Otherwise, we seem to more or less agree.

The rest of my post was, I guess, only indirectly in response to your comments - I'd also done a bit of thinking of my own over the past couple of days, and lumped all of my thoughts into the one post

[Guest]

I am an atheist who suffers from clinical depression. I never saw the two as related. Maybe human nature being what it is needs a spiritual comfort blanket and so depression can be more common with "non-believers" then the "faithful".

It can be a lot easier to be involved in organished religon, after all god does make a convienant scape-goat for your problems.

Seeing how much trouble organised religon has caused in the world i think it should all be banned. Christians/Muslims cause far more wars and evil than Atheist's but they get away wit it by saying they are doing it for their god.

[Nick]

I am an atheist who suffers from clinical depression. I never saw the two as related. Maybe human nature being what it is needs a spiritual comfort blanket and so depression can be more common with "non-believers" then the "faithful".

See the thread about hope & meaning for my thoughts on this.

It can be a lot easier to be involved in organished religon, after all god does make a convienant scape-goat for your problems.

The simple matter of being surrounded by a group of like-minded believers, doesn't hurt, either. . .

Seeing how much trouble organised religon has caused in the world i think it should all be banned. Christians/Muslims cause far more wars and evil than Atheist's but they get away wit it by saying they are doing it for their god.

Tempting as banning may sound, it will just cause more problems unless the aspects of human nature that make religious thought so prevalent are addressed first. Humans are, by nature, irrational - and a stroke of a pen is not going to change that. Basically, if we address the underlying fears and doubts that lead to organised religion, then ultimately, it will die under the weight of its own superstitions - and humanity can get on with the twin threads of the natural sciences & philosophy.

[SWPIGWANG]

I'm depressed.....

determinism is NOT your friend......

that is all I can say.