Washington State's resident creationist

ReinnResauq · Post by **ReinnResauq** » 2002-10-19 01:42pm

I bring you Harold Hochstatter, the state senator who tries *every* year to put creation into Washington public schools. I guess it simply shows that even in an area where you'd think sentient life forms could roam freely, there's still the occasional cretinist lurking about. Fortunately, this guy lives in the isolated part of the state, far from any centers for rational thought.

Here is his page at the WA State Senate homepage: http://www.leg.wa.gov/senate/members/senmem13.htm
I emailed him about the contents of his bill and I got a standard "I don't care how wrong I am, I'm still right" jive plus three pages of pseudoscience, none of which related to anything I said to him in the first place.

And here is the contents of his bill: http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch ... 102833&p=1
I love the "self-evident truth of creation" part at the end. Great stuff

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-19 02:46pm

Hmm....

Yes trying to convice somone who has abonded logic to begin with(The basies of Creationism one could say, a lack of logic) is quite hard

But on the plus side, you know if you put a little hat on a snowball it lasts so much longer in hell?

(As in snow-balls chance in, of breaking through to these people)

ReinnResauq · Post by **ReinnResauq** » 2002-10-19 02:53pm

Yes trying to convice somone who has abonded logic to begin with(The basies of Creationism one could say, a lack of logic) is quite hard

Most people have learned not to bother. Just ignore and prevent them from doing anything bad. Better than Alabama, I suppose.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-10-19 05:16pm

No state is perfect mind you, but I have found Washington to be one of the greater states of the union. You have nothing to worry about Reinn, this creationist moron will be nothing more than a footnote in your part of the country.

By the way, I'm traveling to Seattle in about a month, can't wait.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-10-19 08:43pm

As long as nobody agrees with him, and his proposals never make it, you'll be fine. Perhaps someone should debate publicly with this guy.

ReinnResauq · Post by **ReinnResauq** » 2002-10-19 09:46pm

As long as nobody agrees with him, and his proposals never make it, you'll be fine. Perhaps someone should debate publicly with this guy.

Well, people do agree with him, another senator and three representatives. I find that rather disturbing.

I bet debating him would be like debating Kent Hovind without the intense knowledge of pseudoscience. Not that I wouldn't love to personally take them both on. Maybe I should practice with him before I go and heckle Hovind in Redmond next spring.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-10-19 11:04pm

One of my friends from Seattle helped me towards atheism by showing me ultra Youbg Earth Sites while I had softened my fundie Stance, and Wong's Creationism vs. Evolution page was the knock out blow. Atleast Washignton can contril it's Fundies

ReinnResauq · Post by **ReinnResauq** » 2002-10-19 11:19pm

One of my friends from Seattle helped me towards atheism by showing me ultra Youbg Earth Sites while I had softened my fundie Stance, and Wong's Creationism vs. Evolution page was the knock out blow. Atleast Washignton can contril it's Fundies

That's one thing I've noticed here, that atheists are more willing to come out. Where I grew up, if anyone mentioned the word atheism, there seemed to be an echo of "Atheism? Where?" "You're an atheist...?" I've known more atheists here in the past six months than I knew in Missouri (where I grew up) in 9 years.

Washington doesn't control the fundies, it just doesn't provide an atmosphere for them to thrive. The schools are too open-minded, the citizens and thoughts are too diverse. A racist can't deal with an area where 60% of the population (at least in Seattle) is either Asian or descended from Asian immigrants. The few fundies here either implode or shut up with the exception of those in Yakima, a city fortunately two hours from nowhere.

*Mildly off-topic* It's funny how many people were greatly affected by Wong's site in so short a time. I was affected by how it reinforced several positions that I held in immaturity (I became an atheist two years before he put that site up because of the fundies that surrounded me). Wonder if he knows how seriously a lot of people are going to carry his words because of how closely he hits the mark with so many.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-20 12:01am

Bah. I see red whenever some fundie moron tries to pull something like this.

Which is why I'm going to go about doing a LECism webpage. Converts! Converts to LECism!

And, think of it this way; it's easier to win fundies over to a variation of their own religion than straight atheism, and hey, as long as it's one less fundie, who cares?

ReinnResauq · Post by **ReinnResauq** » 2002-10-20 12:38am

What's LEC?

And, think of it this way; it's easier to win fundies over to a variation of their own religion than straight atheism, and hey, as long as it's one less fundie, who cares?

I've found it's easier to convert hard core fundies to atheism. They're so jaded that they finally snap and go the other direction. Either that or they snap and kill everyone in their church.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-20 12:40am

L)ogical E)volutist C)hristianity

Or 'left' or 'liberal', whatever

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-10-20 02:45am

ReinnResauq wrote:
One of my friends from Seattle helped me towards atheism by showing me ultra Youbg Earth Sites while I had softened my fundie Stance, and Wong's Creationism vs. Evolution page was the knock out blow. Atleast Washignton can contril it's Fundies
That's one thing I've noticed here, that atheists are more willing to come out. Where I grew up, if anyone mentioned the word atheism, there seemed to be an echo of "Atheism? Where?" "You're an atheist...?" I've known more atheists here in the past six months than I knew in Missouri (where I grew up) in 9 years.

Washington doesn't control the fundies, it just doesn't provide an atmosphere for them to thrive. The schools are too open-minded, the citizens and thoughts are too diverse. A racist can't deal with an area where 60% of the population (at least in Seattle) is either Asian or descended from Asian immigrants. The few fundies here either implode or shut up with the exception of those in Yakima, a city fortunately two hours from nowhere.

*Mildly off-topic* It's funny how many people were greatly affected by Wong's site in so short a time. I was affected by how it reinforced several positions that I held in immaturity (I became an atheist two years before he put that site up because of the fundies that surrounded me). Wonder if he knows how seriously a lot of people are going to carry his words because of how closely he hits the mark with so many.

yep, except the only thing IRL for me they still think I'm Christain though I'm slowly softening them up. It'll take years. Anyway, why I trusted SWong's site is how SWvsST is, and how he hates the New Trek soo much.

ReinnResauq · Post by **ReinnResauq** » 2002-10-20 04:07pm

yep, except the only thing IRL for me they still think I'm Christain though I'm slowly softening them up.

I've learned to figure "Why bother?" I may love many of my christian friends deeply, but it's not my place to influence them. They have to find the philosophy that works best for them on their own. I would have wanted the same respect.

Anyway, why I trusted SWong's site is how SWvsST is, and how he hates the New Trek soo much.

Great minds think alike. I've found that if I agree a lot with a person on other things, such as politics or even something as bland as Star Wars vs Star Trek, they'll generally be an atheist. If I talk to someone I don't know from Adam for a little while, I can tell if they're atheist. I don't know, maybe is like jew-dar or gay-dar. Sindios-dar