Are Jehovah Witness's a Cult?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-16 02:53pm

So a Pentecostal friend of mine at college stated the other day that Jehovahs are a cult. But he refused to elaborate on it, saying "they just are". Do any of you know what he is talking about?

As far as I know they don't actually worship Jesus, but God directly. Wouldn't that make them more legitimate of a denomination then the rest of the Christian faiths? Given that God stated " you will worship no other than me". And most of the denominations worship Jesus, which makes them a cult in my books.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-10-16 04:51pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:So a Pentecostal friend of mine at college stated the other day that Jehovahs are a cult. But he refused to elaborate on it, saying "they just are". Do any of you know what he is talking about?

As far as I know they don't actually worship Jesus, but God directly. Wouldn't that make them more legitimate of a denomination then the rest of the Christian faiths? Given that God stated " you will worship no other than me". And most of the denominations worship Jesus, which makes them a cult in my books.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Oh brother. Jehova's Witnesses is a cult. They rely on indoctrination through the Watchtower society and Witnesses must attend a meeting once per week (and four regular meetings per week at the Kingdom Hall), the Theocratic Ministry School, where they get hammered with the teachings of the Watchtower society. The elders take the place of the government. Here in Sweden there has been some cases where the Jehovah's Witnesses didn't report child molestors, but referred the cases to the Elders. They shun government as they all are controlled by Satan, as well as all other churches and religions. They believe that demons and gargoyles lurks in every shadow, waiting to possess people. They have their own translation of the Bible, the New World translation, but the Bible is useless without the interpretations of the Watchtower society. The list is too long, I suggest you look up some literature on the subject.

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2004-10-16 04:52pm

To my mind, the Mormons don't engage in suppression of individual thought to anything like the extent that real cults like the Scientologists do - at least if you're using the word cult in the perjorative sense.

In the general sense,

Dictionary.com wrote: b. The followers of such a religion or sect.

then of course its a cult.

jcow79 · Post by **jcow79** » 2004-10-16 04:53pm

I thought pretty much most religions were considered cults by opposing religions?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-10-16 04:56pm

Given by most definitions a cult is a religious minority within a minstream group, i'd easily consider jehovas witnesses a cult. Especially considering the fact that the person who founded the religion did so as a scam in the first place.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-10-16 05:05pm

"One man is a lunatic. A hundred men are a cult. A million men are a a religion"- Anonymous.

As ridiculous as that sounds, it's basically the way it works. The more people you have worshipping your idiotic worldview, the more "legitimacy" it gains as a religion, because religions honestly have no other way of defining legitimacy. How do you define what separates a "real" religion from a mere "cult"? Validity of beliefs? Level of harmfulness of beliefs? Nope, neither. Some of the biggest religions are also the most insane; look at Islamic fundamentalism.

In practice, most cults are defined by their use of brainwashing techniques, as well as their tendency to extract money from their followers and discourage them from socializing outside the group.

The problem is that ALL of those characteristics apply to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, so it becomes a case of drawing an arbitrary line in the sand: how much brainwashing is a cult allowed to use before you call it a cult? Sunday School for 6 year olds doesn't count? How much tithing of income is a church allowed to demand before it's called a cult? The insane Pentecostal 10% rule doesn't count? How much is a religion allowed to discourage socializing with people outside the faith? The widespread Christian practice of strongly discouraging interfaith marriage doesn't count?

It's really a subjective term. Nobody likes being referred to as a cult, so when you do it, they tend to throw a lot of "No True Scotsman" fallacies at you (the most popular one is "we don't drink poisoned Kool-Aid, so we're not a cult!"). But certainly, Jehovah's Witnesses are much worse in the aforementioned areas than most Christian churches. Having attended a JW service, I can tell you that their brainwashing techniques are much more extreme: they employ the Pavlovian "direct the dog through the obstacle course and pat him on the head at completion" technique in the most obvious fashion I've ever seen in a church service. And they also extract an unusually high amount of their followers' time and income, not to mention discouraging their followers from socializing at all with nonbelievers, not just being reluctant to marry them.

And of course, there are their well-known policies on refusing to celebrate birthdays or holidays, stand for anthems, salute flags, or accept blood transfusions, but as I've said before, all of the major religions have crazy beliefs, as we are reminded of in Louisiana with a movement to ban Halloween. Once again, it's a matter of degrees.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2004-10-16 05:17pm

I think of them as a cult merely because I don't know that many. I don't know many Crazy Christians, either, but the JW seem to marginalise themselve much more than your average fool. As DW points out however *all* Judaist religions define themselves as some kind of selected elite with secret knowledge, so they're really all the same in this regard.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-10-16 05:19pm

Yes. Specifically they're a death cult, due to their focus on the second coming of Christ, which includes continuously predicting exactly when it would occur, and revising the date every time it's proven incorrect.

Biddybot · Post by **Biddybot** » 2004-10-16 05:24pm

They're a cult in my book. The local ones tried hard to recruit me for a long time, probably because I didn't mind talking to them as long as they were willing to walk about with me while I was doing chores outside and they were wacky enough to amuse me. Used to leave their two zines for me in the mailbox for a couple of years and eventually gave me a sort of condensed study bible (the JW version, of course), that only confirmed all my suspicions about them.

The main reason I consider them a cult is their habit of shunning members that are having doubts, which in my mind is a total perversion of one of the decent things Christianity as I understand it aspires to...trying to help your fellow man whenever he's in trouble, regardless of beliefs or lack thereof. They also have this weird elitist idea about what happens in the happy afterlife, that only some 140,000+ JWs will only ever be truly worthy to chum with God...everyone else is just an also-ran, I guess. Again, sounds like a dead-wrong interpretation to me. Isn't one of the basic teachings of Christianity that all men are created equal? There's other stuff, but these are the two main items about their beliefs that turn me off.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-16 05:30pm

Biddybot wrote: They also have this weird elitist idea about what happens in the happy afterlife, that only some 140,000+ JWs will only ever be truly worthy to chum with God...everyone else is just an also-ran, I guess. Again, sounds like a dead-wrong interpretation to me. Isn't one of the basic teachings of Christianity that all men are created equal? There's other stuff, but these are the two main items about their beliefs that turn me off.

I've heard this afterlife idea espoused by my mother in law (Catholic). Basically only 140,000 people will be admitted into heaven right away. The rest of us scum will have to do some time in hell before we get elevated to paradise. Which brings up the question of why I should bother being a decent person if I'm going to hell anyways. So crazy ideas aren't limited to the JW's.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2004-10-16 05:49pm

Most of the time,

Pentacostal=fundie.

And for your typical fundie,

Any religion but their own=cult.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-10-16 05:50pm

Actually, I believe it's that the 144,000 being the decendents of the original Twelve Tribes of Israel will be the only ones allowed into Heaven and New Jerusalem. Everyone else is damned.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2004-10-16 05:51pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:I've heard this afterlife idea espoused by my mother in law (Catholic). Basically only 140,000 people will be admitted into heaven right away. The rest of us scum will have to do some time in hell before we get elevated to paradise. Which brings up the question of why I should bother being a decent person if I'm going to hell anyways. So crazy ideas aren't limited to the JW's.

For the JWs, the righteous people who don't make the 144,000 cut get to live forever in an Earth returned to a state like the Garden of Eden.

People will continue having children in this paradise but no one will die and they don't see a problem with this belief.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-16 05:55pm

Darth Servo wrote:For the JWs, the righteous people who don't make the 144,000 cut get to live forever in an Earth returned to a state like the Garden of Eden.

People will continue having children in this paradise but no one will die and they don't see a problem with this belief.

Uh huh, and what will they do when their offspring over run the Earth? Let me guess God will provide.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-16 06:06pm

This site contains interesting info on the JW's. They seem to have a peculiar fascination with 1914.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-10-16 06:56pm

What religion isn't a cult?

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2004-10-16 07:11pm

Galvatron wrote:What religion isn't a cult?

When religion crosses over into philosophy, I'd say it'd become less of a cult. Cults are generally organized.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-10-16 07:53pm

According to the church, yes, it is a cult. If you're not RC, Protestant, or EO, you are a cult according to the mainstream church.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-16 08:16pm

StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:According to the church, yes, it is a cult. If you're not RC, Protestant, or EO, you are a cult according to the mainstream church.

So the Lutherans, Mormans, and the United's are all considered cults as well?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-10-16 09:00pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
StormtrooperOfDeath wrote:According to the church, yes, it is a cult. If you're not RC, Protestant, or EO, you are a cult according to the mainstream church.
So the Lutherans, Mormans, and the United's are all considered cults as well?

Lutherans are Protestants. United's?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2004-10-16 09:10pm

StarshipTitanic wrote: Lutherans are Protestants. United's?

Members of the United Church. I have no idea who they are, but their churches are all over the Ottawa Valley.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2004-10-16 09:15pm

Mormons, yes, not sure about the other. Probably.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2004-10-16 09:23pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:Members of the United Church. I have no idea who they are, but their churches are all over the Ottawa Valley.

The United Church is a liberal Protestant denomination: For example, the United Church of Canada supports gay marriage.

However, they havn't really deviated from mainstream Christianity the way the JWs and Mormons have and thus can't be considered a cult...

BTW, perhaps a question someone can answer: Why are JW Kingdom Halls almost completely windowless?

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2004-10-16 11:25pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Actually, I believe it's that the 144,000 being the decendents of the original Twelve Tribes of Israel will be the only ones allowed into Heaven and New Jerusalem. Everyone else is damned.

If that is so, then why do they even bother with converting other people? Are there vacancies? Or will they be replacments in case some of the chosen are unable to make it on that day?

I was thinking that the difference between a cult and a religion is how society views it. If one tells someone a bunch of nonsense, and they laugh because they think the idea is dumb, then it's a cult. If, one tells someone the same nonsense, and they think it's perfectly fine, then it's a religion.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-10-17 03:54am

Mange the Swede wrote:
Oh brother. Jehova's Witnesses is a cult. They rely on indoctrination through the Watchtower society and Witnesses must attend a meeting once per week (and four regular meetings per week at the Kingdom Hall), the Theocratic Ministry School, where they get hammered with the teachings of the Watchtower society. The elders take the place of the government. Here in Sweden there has been some cases where the Jehovah's Witnesses didn't report child molestors, but referred the cases to the Elders. They shun government as they all are controlled by Satan, as well as all other churches and religions. They believe that demons and gargoyles lurks in every shadow, waiting to possess people. They have their own translation of the Bible, the New World translation, but the Bible is useless without the interpretations of the Watchtower society. The list is too long, I suggest you look up some literature on the subject.

I use to be one. And all that you just said is bullshit. Sure, there are extremist JW just like any other religion. What you just described is some idiots perception of something they observed with bias goggles on.

My family was never required to do anything. My former church respected the government and never ever said they were controlled by Satan...lol that part made me laugh. The demons and gargoyles LMAO...that's good. Mormons have horns to, have you heard? LOL

Basically you've bought into someone's lies about the religion.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

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