An Electric Motor To Power A Ferrari?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-06-02 08:19pm

icWales wrote:Welsh car team pioneer electric dream

un 1 2005

icWales

Imagine an electric car that produces hardly any noise, no air pollution, and is as fast as a Ferrari.

It might become a reality in the near future, thanks to a revolutionary new motor designed by an enterprising team in Wales.

If the IMP motor meets expectations, it could usher in a new age of rapid, clean, electric transport.

As well as high performance vehicles, there are plans for a battery-powered family car with a range of hundreds of miles.

Electric cars to date have been more reminiscent of milk floats than Formula One.

It is hard not to laugh when recalling Sir Clive Sinclair's C5 electric three-wheeler, which was supposed to be the ideal urban runabout, but proved a catastrophic flop.

However the new motor being developed by IMP Ltd, a Welsh engineering company based in Neath, really could put electric vehicles in the fast lane.

The motor is revolutionary in that it contains no bulky permanent magnets.

Instead it relies on transmitting electric pulses across up to seven rotors, arranged in different phases. These are "fired up" in turn, much like the pistons of an internal combustion engine.

There are no gears - the motor provides enough torque at one revolution per minute to put a vehicle into motion - and it spins at up to 2,500rpm.

"Size for size, we can provide 400% more torque than any type of motor currently available," says managing director John Bryant.

He is now hoping to team up with a sports car manufacturer, such as Lotus or TVR.

Theoretically an electric racing car driven by four of the motors - one for each wheel - could hold its own in Formula One.

"Electric vehicles still carry the stigma of the Sinclair," says Mr Bryant. "Forget it. This will outstrip a Ferrari."

At present, providing enough battery life is a problem. But battery technology is improving all the time, and Mr Bryant does not see it as a major obstacle.

If he finds the right automotive partner, a prototype electric car that would put a smile on Michael Schumacher's face could be ready within two years.

Interesting. I hope this, along with improved fuel-cells using enzymes and not rare metals, help remove fossil fuel engines for good.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-06-02 08:31pm

Yeah, the horsepower limitations have been overcome... but it always comes back to that shitty battery life.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-06-02 08:48pm

Theoretically an electric racing car driven by four of the motors - one for each wheel - could hold its own in Formula One.

What a stupid statement. F1 cars cannot have more then one axle powered. If you don't follow the rules then you don't need a fancy new electric motor to kick the crap out of Formula One. The whole battery power issue makes the concept a joke anyway, unless we give racetracks overhead wires and equip the vehicles with bumper car style paragraphs.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2005-06-02 08:48pm

I don't understand the fascination with electric cars. To quote a comedian:

"Why do you have an electric car?"
"Because it's environmentally friendly! There's no exhaust! It doesn't pollute!"
"Really? Oh, yeah, because electricity comes from MAGIC."

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2005-06-02 09:13pm

So it takes some AC motor technology and applies it to a DC motor, making it more efficient and powerful. Now they get to solve the fun problem of making a DC power control module that can handle that much power without melting, and making battery packs that can handle the increased power demand. If the accelerator is floored from a standstill the batteries will see close to a short circuit until the motors spin up, and batteries have a habit of overheating and exploding when you do that to them.

Il Saggiatore · Post by **Il Saggiatore** » 2005-06-03 10:58am

I remember seeing on Top Gear (BBC2's cars show) an electric sports car, presented in a show in Monaco (nothing for the average man).
However, I cannot remember details.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-06-03 11:26am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Theoretically an electric racing car driven by four of the motors - one for each wheel - could hold its own in Formula One.
What a stupid statement. F1 cars cannot have more then one axle powered. If you don't follow the rules then you don't need a fancy new electric motor to kick the crap out of Formula One. The whole battery power issue makes the concept a joke anyway, unless we give racetracks overhead wires and equip the vehicles with bumper car style paragraphs.

Every pit stop is a 4-tire change .... for new motors & batteries ...... and we pit on every third lap.

Wow, pit crews will make a fortune! They will absolutely determine the outcome of the race ......

Hey, like F1 never did anything this whacky?

salm · Post by **salm** » 2005-06-03 12:17pm

Chmee wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Theoretically an electric racing car driven by four of the motors - one for each wheel - could hold its own in Formula One.
What a stupid statement. F1 cars cannot have more then one axle powered. If you don't follow the rules then you don't need a fancy new electric motor to kick the crap out of Formula One. The whole battery power issue makes the concept a joke anyway, unless we give racetracks overhead wires and equip the vehicles with bumper car style paragraphs.
Every pit stop is a 4-tire change .... for new motors & batteries ...... and we pit on every third lap.

Tire changing is illegal this year. </nitpick>

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-06-03 02:24pm

Batteries? What the hell? I guess you people have forgotten about the whole fuel-cell deal then, something far superior to even the best high-density power-cells today. That is and always has been what such electric cars were to run off.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-06-03 02:27pm

salm wrote:
Chmee wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote: What a stupid statement. F1 cars cannot have more then one axle powered. If you don't follow the rules then you don't need a fancy new electric motor to kick the crap out of Formula One. The whole battery power issue makes the concept a joke anyway, unless we give racetracks overhead wires and equip the vehicles with bumper car style paragraphs.
Every pit stop is a 4-tire change .... for new motors & batteries ...... and we pit on every third lap.
Tire changing is illegal this year. </nitpick>

Is there an RSS feed to stay up-to-the-minute on FIA's rulebook? Nobody changes their rules as often as those guys!

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2005-06-03 03:05pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Batteries? What the hell? I guess you people have forgotten about the whole fuel-cell deal then, something far superior to even the best high-density power-cells today. That is and always has been what such electric cars were to fun off.

The problem of the near short circuit under hard acceleration from a standstill still applies, fuel cells don't like low impedances and their power output drops when asked to drive such a load. You'd need a capacitor bank or something of that sort to even out the electrical load until the motors spin up a bit and stop looking like a short circuit. Otherwise fuel cell life is going to be pretty darn short.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-06-03 03:13pm

Honda has already developed extremely efficient capacitors (ultracapacitors) to deal with that problem, as has BMW, IIRC. Such technologies also were derived from the energy requirements for railguns which met similar issues in energy density, supply and lifetime. The problem with fuel-cells today is the cost of the components in the current versions, though that should come down given the use of engineered enzymes and cheaper alloys other than platinum. With these new universal motors, such vehicles will eventually be a superior choice over normal cars today aside from the whole fuel price war.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-06-03 04:34pm

Chmee wrote: Is there an RSS feed to stay up-to-the-minute on FIA's rulebook? Nobody changes their rules as often as those guys!

You can download a PDF file with the complete Formula One technical rules off the F1 website.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-06-03 05:18pm

The FIA has been a bit of a bitch lately with the rules, but I haven't watched F1 in ages to really notice how they apply anyway.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-06-03 06:01pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:The FIA has been a bit of a bitch lately with the rules, but I haven't watched F1 in ages to really notice how they apply anyway.

It's gotten a whole lot more interesting this season, since Michael Schumacher is no longer dominating. Right now the only noticeable change is they don't change tires in the race (and its had a quite small effect on lap times). But next season the engines are being cut back to V-8s as part of a retarded effort to save money. Funny thing is, some the low rung teams can't afford to use all new design engines, and thus will be allowed to still enter V-10's, with rev limiters.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-06-03 06:38pm

That's just retarded, but hey, if Schumacher isn't making it a one horse race anymore, I may just be tempted to watch it like old times. He was simply too good to give any edge to the sport.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-06-03 06:58pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:That's just retarded, but hey, if Schumacher isn't making it a one horse race anymore, I may just be tempted to watch it like old times. He was simply too good to give any edge to the sport.

Right now he's eight in the drivers championship, with 16 points. Fernando Alonso is first, with 59 points. Some of that was because Ferraris new car got introduced ahead of schedule and had a bunch of technical problems. But Schumacher is clearly off his game.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-06-03 11:14pm

Chardok wrote:I don't understand the fascination with electric cars. To quote a comedian:

"Why do you have an electric car?"
"Because it's environmentally friendly! There's no exhaust! It doesn't pollute!"
"Really? Oh, yeah, because electricity comes from MAGIC."

Cleaning out a powerplant's emissions is a fuckload easier than a few million cars.

It is also impractically to have a nuclear reactor in the back of your care, but it is not to have a nuclear reactor for a power station.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-06-03 11:38pm

Electric cars are inevitably the future unless we simply use ethanol powered internal combustion engines, but since fuel-cells offer better efficiency with electric motors giving better response and no nasty emissions relative to what we have today, I see the choice made.

Fossil fuel will last a while yet, but when demand is not being met there will be serious shake-ups in the industry.

WacoKid · Post by **WacoKid** » 2005-06-04 10:41am

The problems you run into with the "no tire changes" rule are things like what happened to Raikonnen (sp?) last race. Sure, he didn't HAVE to push that hard, but the fact that his tire went to shit like it did is bloody dangerous.

I also hate that way they do qualifying now, but oh well. At least they got rid of the two-day syatem for a few races.

Side note: What's wrong with Schumacher dominating everything?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-06-04 11:29am

WacoKid wrote:
Side note: What's wrong with Schumacher dominating everything?

It gets boring. The guy is worse than Mansell.

WacoKid · Post by **WacoKid** » 2005-06-04 11:52am

You'd definitely be much more interested this year then, since he's not really doing much (Ferrari as a whole isn't), and there are plenty of younger drivers duking it out.