"Religious" experiences you've had that are unprov

[Magnetic]

I'm just curious about this. Regardless of your religious beliefs (or the lack there of), have any of you ever had an experience that you would consider to be scientifically impossible to prove, whether it be an unexplainable phenomenon, something considered to be a miracle, etc.? If you have and are willing, please describe it as well as your belief system.

Thank you!

[Melchior]

No, never.
Also, I don't understand how you can decide if an event is not only unexplainable with current knowledge but will also never explained.
Even "miracles" need to have a way to happen.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I'm just curious about this. Regardless of your religious beliefs (or the lack there of), have any of you ever had an experience that you would consider to be scientifically impossible to prove, whether it be an unexplainable phenomenon, something considered to be a miracle, etc.? If you have and are willing, please describe it as well as your belief system.

Thank you!

I have had experiences that I found to be completely inexplicable at the time I had them. In every single case, the experience could be later explained in a logical fashion which invoked failings of my senses (staring up at the night sky with no reference points apart from stars causes my vision to drift, resulting in moving lights. Or seeing a peculiar flash at the corner of my vision which later turns out to be caused by me looking at a bright screen, and then my eyes looking off-target just long enough for the after-image of what I was looking at to be visible, and so on), mundane neurological phenomena (such as hypnogogic hallucinations, imperfect recall, subjective validation, the Forer Effect, or me subconsciously assembling bits of information that I'd already gathered at some point in the past.)

I have been told, at times, that someone's "watching out for me," such as the time I was involved in a relatively minor chain-reaction accident (I was number four in a chain where I rear-ended someone, and then was forcefully struck from behind. All I had was a mild concussion, as well as a stiff and sore neck for a while. My mother thanked God. I thanked good engineering and weather, as I was spared whiplash by a seatbelt and a headrest, and worse neck and head damage by the fact that the temperature was in the low thirties/upper twenties (Around or below zero centigrade) at the time of the accident and I spent an hour in the cold waiting for the police to show up and do what they needed to do.)

Incidentally, I am a very strong atheist, so I am likely to consider mundane explanations for things rather than immediately claiming that "ZOMG GAWD SAVED ME!!!111"

[Magnetic]

I see your point, GMTerwynn. I'm looking for instances where logic goes out the window and scientific mechanisms just aren't there.

Sure, I could SAY that God allowed my car keys to be found at the Schlitterbaun last week, after I forgot to take them out of my pocket and the fell out, but where found at some point of the day, and turned in to the Lost and Found, as well as the fact that my wedding ring was still on the key chain and not taken (I use one of those fake mountain climbing scaffold hooks). At any rate, I'm just glad that someone was kind enough to turn them in.

What I'm looking for are things like this:

Years ago, when I was a youngster in high school, and belonging to a church youth group, I went to a youth camp where there was the typical 'pep rally' type service. Very upbeat, dynamic speaker, stuff like that. At the end, they had people come down to be prayed for and at one point there were a bunch of people gathered around this girl who had malformed stubs on her feet rather than toes. Every so often, this group of people would get all excited and loud. As I understand it, they were praying for her and her toes started growing out right there. I personally didn't witness this because there were too many people gathered around.

Anyway, stuff like that that seems unexplainable is what I'm after.

[The Guid]

I saw a skull that produces a pleasing aroma on Mount Athos. I have never satisfyingly defied that just by using logic.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

I see your point, GMTerwynn. I'm looking for instances where logic goes out the window and scientific mechanisms just aren't there.

Like I said. There are things which may appear to be illogical and irrational at the time you experience them, but in virtually all cases, can be explained to a satisfactory extent using science and logic.

What I'm looking for are things like this:

Years ago, when I was a youngster in high school, and belonging to a church youth group, I went to a youth camp where there was the typical 'pep rally' type service. Very upbeat, dynamic speaker, stuff like that. At the end, they had people come down to be prayed for and at one point there were a bunch of people gathered around this girl who had malformed stubs on her feet rather than toes. Every so often, this group of people would get all excited and loud. As I understand it, they were praying for her and her toes started growing out right there. I personally didn't witness this because there were too many people gathered around.

Except that isn't an inexplicable miracle. That was likely a case of a collective hallucination reinforced by communal reinforcement. Where someone might've been tricked into seeing something that actually wasn't there due to wishful thinking and then it blew up from there.

It is only inexplicable and miraculous because one has confirmation bias towards such, which is a form of selective thinking induced by second, third, or fourth-hand testimonials.

[sketerpot]

Also, a general warning: you should be wary of alleged medical miracles. Biology is horrenously complicated, and nobody really understands all that goes on in a human body. Things that look miraculous can easily be explained as part of the fuzziness of all medicine.

The place to look for real miracles is in phenomena that seem to contradict the laws of physics, like a levitating rock or a staff turning into a snake. These are far less likely to be the result of random chance, and there are far fewer reports of these types of miracles. I doubt that this is coincidental.

[AntarDragon]

Well, I've never come across any miracles that I know of. I've experienced some weird stuff during my life, but nothing that I would think to be of religious importance.......although, I've had some quite frankly scary moments when using Tarot cards. Nothing I can explain here properly, and I don't view them as miracles. Using Tarot is very difficult to and one has to be very careful on how they are used.

[FSTargetDrone]

Well, I've never come across any miracles that I know of. I've experienced some weird stuff during my life, but nothing that I would think to be of religious importance.......although, I've had some quite frankly scary moments when using Tarot cards. Nothing I can explain here properly, and I don't view them as miracles. Using Tarot is very difficult to and one has to be very careful on how they are used.

Why should someone "be very careful" with Tarot? Or for that matter, reading tea leaves or any other fortune telling. All of these things are no more or less valid that any particular religious belief, astrology or divination.

[Magnetic]

Well, I've never come across any miracles that I know of. I've experienced some weird stuff during my life, but nothing that I would think to be of religious importance.......although, I've had some quite frankly scary moments when using Tarot cards. Nothing I can explain here properly, and I don't view them as miracles. Using Tarot is very difficult to and one has to be very careful on how they are used.

Actually, AntarDragon, what you experienced with your Tarot cards is exactly what I'm looking for. Things that are hard to explain. I saw in another post that you are of the Pagan beliefs. My brother is getting into that some. Actually been exploring earth based, witchcraft type things. Anyway, if you don't want to explain the things you experienced on here, and wouldn't mind sending me an email, I'd be interested in hearing your stories of what you've experienced, whether deemed good or bad.

[Guardsman Bass]

I had something that might qualify as one of those "body paralysis waking dreams" or whatever. I was lying on my bed in the dark, just laying there, and for some reason, out of the blue I thought, "I don't believe in the devil." Right after that, I immediately felt sick to my stomach and started shaking (in my recall; I couldn't tell if I was asleep or not when it happened, but it did look exactly like my room).

I'm not a religous person, so I figure it may have just been something weird.

[Surlethe]

I'm consistently around people who pray in tongues. It's rather wierd, and I've done it myself on occasion. Also, when the holy spirit is being invoked, sometimes I get strong involuntary chills down my back.

[Zero]

I have an experience with reincarnation. In my last life, I was a slave, but it's not something I'd prefer to go into details about. It wasn't a very good experience, so fuck off if you're going to be the kind of ass hole to tell me that it never happened... it's a bit of a touchy subject, and besides, the thread title says experiences that are unprovable.

It's the primary reason that I chose not to believe in God. I knew that my own experiences invalidated any concept of heaven or hell, so the entire religion was flushed down the toilet from age 3 (if that late..). It has had quite an impact on my life, including my feeling of absolute worthlessness until very recently. Also the reason I hate sleep (dreams). Of course, I would believe that eventually, there will be some discovered physical mechanism for this kind of thing. After all, things have to happen SOME damned way.

[Fuzzy]

Zero.. not to be rude or anything, but how do you know that? I'm genuinely interested, not trying to counter what you said.

If you'd rather not talk about it all, that's cool too. It's just an interesting thing to hear.

[Zero]

Zero.. not to be rude or anything, but how do you know that? I'm genuinely interested, not trying to counter what you said.

If you'd rather not talk about it all, that's cool too. It's just an interesting thing to hear.

I don't entirely know it.. I just have several years worth of shit memories, and one specific memory of death, which is surprisingly relaxing. I don't claim to entirely understand how those memories got there, but the next memory I have after death is from when I was around 2, probably younger. I looked up at my mother, and she was crying. I wanted to say something, to do something to comfort her, but I didn't know any words, and I couldn't do anything to comfort her. She was pregnant with my sister at the time, so it was probably hormonal...

If you want more information on the aspects of my life (or previous life, as it may be), then IM me, I suppose... I don't prefer to talk about it, and divulging such information on a public forum is a bit tricky for me. Basically, I tried to run away, failed, and they made me an example. If you want specifics, AIM or PM me...

[Uraniun235]

I once saw a small bowl of miso soup creep across a level table a couple of years ago. Other than that, nothing.

[Pick]

I used to try to Matilda-like move objects telekenetically. Once the pen rolled over. It was disturbing enough to me that I never tried to do anything of the sort again.

[weemadando]

There was this one time I had a pretty serious bike stack (on a straight, flat, paved section of road no less - damn that gear assembly for locking up) and I thought that the motorist who stopped to help me out and helped me walk the last few blocks to my house was Patrick Stewart... But that turned out to be shock. And the fact that the person was my optomitrist who was driving by and saw me go down hard looks suspiciously like Patrick Stewart.

That's about as far as it goes.

[SirNitram]

I've seen a nebula birthing stars.

...No, not psychically. I've seen a picture. That was a religious experience. Hey, can you think of anything more majesty and deserving of the title? It beats the crap out of 'A face in the butter!'.

Ah, being a Deist means all my miracles are confirmed... Mind you, some folks are somehow not impressed by a gorgeous nebula or a newborn. Wierd.

[AntarDragon]

Why should someone "be very careful" with Tarot? Or for that matter, reading tea leaves or any other fortune telling. All of these things are no more or less valid that any particular religious belief, astrology or divination.

Because what you ask for you may not want to know. Say you ask the cards to predict how well a business presentation will go. You may get the tower card - a card that signify disaster. With this knowledge, you may loose all confidence in the presentation and cause the presentation to become a disaster.

Divination is a hard to pull off, and what you discover may not happen. Life is like a tree - there are many branches that one can take that will alter what you encounter. It's essentionally Terry Prachett's Trousers of Time concept. A person could predict what could happen to him/her in the near future. With that knowledge he/she can could change their destination when they come upon a choice of which branch to follow.

I view the tarot as magick. Specificate tarot cards can be used to focus on a particular god. When I started using tarot cards, I had asked the gods which card best represent them. Then one of my scary moments with tarot cards happened.

I scattered my cards face down and moved them around randomly, making it totally unpredicatable to choose a specificate card on purpose. I perfer this method of picking cards. The first card I picked was to represent the Goddess Daes. I picked up the Justice card, a card associated with balance and justice. From what I know of Daes already, I know she strived for balance in everything, because when on side becomes too powerful, the other(s) suffer. For God Old Grey Wolf, I picked the Lovers. Old Grey Wolf devotes himself to his mate, Goddess White Wolf. The third, and last card I picked, was the Ace of Pentacles. A card signifying intelligence and content. Goddess White Wolf is a very intelligent hunter, and she is content with her mate.

Ok, that may not sound so scary, but its hair raising to pick these cards that signifies the gods I follow so well from what is essentionally, chaos.

Tarot cards don't have to used to just ask questions. They can be used to call up elementals and spirits, other beings, as well as perform magick rituals, curse people, and other stuff. Kind of like a Ouija Board, but less dangerous as you have more control in what you do. Also, you must always give thanks to any spirit, elemental, god or other being that helped you in your reading, no matter what the result, as you really do not want to piss them off.

[AntarDragon]

Actually, AntarDragon, what you experienced with your Tarot cards is exactly what I'm looking for. Things that are hard to explain. I saw in another post that you are of the Pagan beliefs. My brother is getting into that some. Actually been exploring earth based, witchcraft type things. Anyway, if you don't want to explain the things you experienced on here, and wouldn't mind sending me an email, I'd be interested in hearing your stories of what you've experienced, whether deemed good or bad.

Hmm, well I can't remember any specificate examples at the moment, except for that time I've already explained in my last post. Actually, its been a while since I've used Tarot cards. I remember I did some future predictions earlier in the year. I can't remember them at this time, but I did write the results down somewhere. I'll post later once I've found what I wrote down.

[Zero]

I don't personally see how future predictions can work. The future's always pretty indefinite, isn't it?

[AntarDragon]

I don't personally see how future predictions can work. The future's always pretty indefinite, isn't it?

Yes, that why its so damn hard to predict it. Destiny and fate change all the time, although there are some things you can not avoid no matter how hard you try. Predictions show what your heading towards at that time, but anything can change it after you've made the prediction, including having the knowlegde of the prediction.

[wautd]

IIRC, the most recent "miracle" that hit the news was a mouldy bread with Jesus face on it. So errr... no

[Dakarne]

I get deja vu, a lot... probably because of short term memory loss (What were we talking about?)

Anyway, I've had very little in the way of religious experiences. I do however believe in power of the Human Mind, and of Psychic power.

PS: Anyone who believes in Telekinesis, Raise My Hand.