People sizes during the ages

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2005-09-27 04:38am

It is a fact that people were on average a lot smaller in "the good old days". The fact that people are becoming larger, is that due to evolution (women prefer bigger men for one thing) or due to better nutritional habits?

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2005-09-27 05:05am

Definitely diet - The average size of Japanese adults jumped in a single generation, way too fast for evolution.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2005-09-27 05:24am

Yes, it's entirely due to diet. Either they're getting more protein or they're just getting a better all-around diet. But mostly an increase in protein.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-09-27 09:15am

People were indeed on average smaller. However, one should take note that they were for the most part within the normal height range even for modern humans; low end, true, but they weren't *that* small. Perhaps noticeably short, but not excessively so. You can find suits of armour out there that fit modern men easily, all the way back to the recovered Roman lorica segmenta suits.

It is notable that back in the day what they considered 'unusually tall' was much along the same lines as ours-- Frederick the Great had a unit in his army called the 'Giants' or some such, composed exclusively of men six feet six and above.

Really, the only reason for variations in height is primarily diet-based except when it's genetic (such as the Pygmies of the Congo); otherwise, it's quite possible for men to grow up to six feet and above. They just need the right chow...

Alliance SpecForceTrooper · Post by **Alliance SpecForceTrooper** » 2005-09-27 12:08pm

Diet determines alot of this. Generally, during warmer periods, more diverse types of food are available. Some of that I would speculate would be meat of some type (anyone here a nutritionist?).

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1505/images05/heights.gif

From PBS.org Hot Planet - Cold Comfort

One researcher looked at the average height of men throughout history as an indicator of the overall health and well being of a population. He found that height declined during the period between 1100 and 1600. Northern European men had lost an average 2.5 inches of height by the 1700s. The likely culprit? Disease and agricultural shortages, thanks to the LIA.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-09-27 06:14pm

Many considered Northmen to be giants, when their average height did not break 6 ft. On the other hand, their diet was largely protein and cheese, with farming relatively subdued in the cold climate. By contrast, a Roman gladiator's staple food was barley, similar to a peasant, who could scarcely afford meat (though gladiators did it to put on a layer of fat that would guard against blunt blows).

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2005-09-29 07:12am

$0.02
Note also that when people say 'I went to this exhibit and King So-and-so's armour was really small, and he was supposed to be a tall guy' the armour they were looking at was most likely from when he was an adolescent or child, since the adult versions would be busted and broken, whereas that suit is still nice and shiny and displayable.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-09-29 07:42am

wolveraptor wrote:Many considered Northmen to be giants, when their average height did not break 6 ft. On the other hand, their diet was largely protein and cheese, with farming relatively subdued in the cold climate. By contrast, a Roman gladiator's staple food was barley, similar to a peasant, who could scarcely afford meat (though gladiators did it to put on a layer of fat that would guard against blunt blows).

According to one of my Medieval History professors, peasants experienced the threat of famine about every seven years. That means getting enough food to survive, let alone fuel a growth spurt, is likely to be difficult during some part of the typical peasant's adolescence.

outcast · Post by **outcast** » 2005-10-01 12:47pm

While it's true that people grew much taller due to better diet, (I've heard it said that the Dutch are the tallest people on earth (average) due to the wealth of the Dutch Republic in it's golden age for instance) It's also true that kids will grow tall even without a good nutrition nowadays. In fact, when i was a kid, doctors would come to our school and measure how tall we would grow (an estimate) by sizing up our kneecaps. Apparantly you're born destined to grow tall or small as a result of our better diet over the generations.

SCRawl · Post by **SCRawl** » 2005-10-01 02:48pm

outcast wrote:Apparantly you're born destined to grow tall or small as a result of our better diet over the generations.

I really don't see how that's possible. Maximum height is a genetic trait. It gets passed on with other traits, like eye colour. You can't affect your maximum potential height with diet -- that would be like changing your eye colour (and that of your descendants) by eating more beets.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-10-01 02:52pm

It was on the History Channel, so I'm not sure how accurate of a statement it was, but I heard one was required to be at least six feet even to join the Roman army as a legionary.

xerex · Post by **xerex** » 2005-10-01 05:06pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:It was on the History Channel, so I'm not sure how accurate of a statement it was, but I heard one was required to be at least six feet even to join the Roman army as a legionary.

that's odd cause I heard/read that the average roman legionary was 5'6".

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2005-10-01 06:24pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:It was on the History Channel, so I'm not sure how accurate of a statement it was, but I heard one was required to be at least six feet even to join the Roman army as a legionary.

I suspect that even nowadays the average height of an Italian is less than 6 feet, I doubt that's true.

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2005-10-03 03:11am

SCRawl wrote:
outcast wrote:Apparantly you're born destined to grow tall or small as a result of our better diet over the generations.
I really don't see how that's possible. Maximum height is a genetic trait. It gets passed on with other traits, like eye colour. You can't affect your maximum potential height with diet -- that would be like changing your eye colour (and that of your descendants) by eating more beets.

Maximum potential height is genetically determined, but a bad diet can stunt your development, so that you don't achieve you full vertical potential, becoming instead, vertically challenged. </PC>

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-10-03 03:25am

kheegan wrote:
Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:It was on the History Channel, so I'm not sure how accurate of a statement it was, but I heard one was required to be at least six feet even to join the Roman army as a legionary.
I suspect that even nowadays the average height of an Italian is less than 6 feet, I doubt that's true.

There was a unit created by, IIRC, Nero, which required all its members to be over 6 feet tall. I think it was called "The Army of Alexander the Great" or something along the lines.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin