Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

[vargo]

Has anyone confirmed this Article to be true???... I found it in another forum..

"THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.
The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible...."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 32,00.html

[Psycho Smiley]

Not surprising, if true. It actually means that 'Only the inconvenient parts are wrong. See these parts over here? We still insist they mean do what we say and give us your money. Oh, yeah, and queers are still bad.'

[Haruko]

If I interpreted the following quote correctly, it is appropriate in response to this article...

"The principle itself of dogmatic religion, dogmatic morality, dogmatic philosophy, is what requires to be rooted out; not any particular manifestation of that principle."
-- John Stuart Mill; "Civilization", London and Westminster Review (April 1836)

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Keep in mind that while bishops of England, Wales, and Scotland are part of the hierarchy, they're not at the top, and the pope has absolute veto power over anything anyone else in the Roman Catholic church says (at least so long as they maintain the not-so-old doctrine of papal infallibility).

In the meantime, things will continue to go along as before--with much of the RC membership ignoring the pope on issues where they don't agree.

[Duckie]

I'm pretty sure it's been Papal Doctrine that the bible is not literal for years and years, according to a Catholic aquaintance of mine...

[wolveraptor]

Well they already add in a bunch of shit that isn't in the bible, so I don't think this is a monumental step, to say that some stuff isn't valid. Besides, they mostly concern Jews, not Christians proper.

[Surlethe]

To the best of my knowledge, it is valid.

PS- Vargo, are you "LauraG"?

[Alex Moon]

This isn't suprising. I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church hasn't argued the literalism of the bible in years. The general thought is that we should look at it, especially the Old Testament, in terms of symbolism and story.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

The Vatican has renounced many sectiond of the OT for decades now. They've accepted evolution (helped along by God, of course) as truth since the Vatican II renovations in the 50s.

[vargo]

To the best of my knowledge, it is valid.

PS- Vargo, are you "LauraG"?

????

Sorry I am not

[Superman]

The modern church has never really taken the Bible literally. It's just another difference between the Catholics and the evangelical-fundie tards.

[wolveraptor]

The only one, iirc. Fundie Catholics still oppose porn, homosexuality, contraception and abortion, as well as the separate issues of women in the Church and priestly marriage.

[Metatwaddle]

The only one, iirc. Fundie Catholics still oppose porn, homosexuality, contraception and abortion, as well as the separate issues of women in the Church and priestly marriage.

On some issues, the Catholics interpret the Bible even more literally than many fundies. For instance, they're against the death penalty. I doubt you'll get too many fundie bigwigs saying the same thing, even though it's clearly in the Bible (Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone, or however it's phrased).

[Duckie]

On some issues, the Catholics interpret the Bible even more literally than many fundies. For instance, they're against the death penalty.

I don't know what Bible you're using, but the million+ numbered deaths and countless more vaguely referenced ones in mine thanks to direct God intervention or Israelite actions tend to discount any sort of anti-death penalty statement. Except "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and the next few chapters show he was just kidding about that part.

[wolveraptor]

A key point is that the Bible SAYS not to kill people, even though the characters clearly go on a LUDICROUS[/unreal] rampage every other chapter. Essentially, the characters' actions are completely disconnected with the official "rules" of the Bible. If one were to be a disingenuous fundie, one could say that the rules still say do not kill, and that the stories are all *insert euphemism for "made up bullshit*.

This position amounts to saying, "The rules of the the New Testament are the literal word of God, but the rest is well...er...um...made up."

[tharkûn]

Most Catholics and Protestants accept some degree of symbology and literary narrative structure in explaining the Bible. That has been true since antiquity, the only changes have been what is interpreted thusly and towards what meaning.

Not to bring back a long and useless debate, but even back when Galileo was tried a member of the Inquisition itself stated that if all else fails - mankind's interpretation of the holy text was errant. The position of last resort for the Catholic church has always been "That was symbolic" (oh and the pope wasn't actually speaking ex cathedra, so he still is infallible when he does so now).

Thou Shalt Not Kill is a bit of a mistranslation, the connotation is thou shalt not murder, such as some Bibles translate it. Indeed the penalty for breaking that commandment is death.

[EmperorSolo51]

Has anyone confirmed this Article to be true???... I found it in another forum..

"THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.
The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible...."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 32,00.html

It's true. The Catholic Church tends to view that much of the Old Testament (not all) is allegory. Though as part of Church doctrine, there is a general acceptance that there is truth to the OT. This posistion is more or less a rebuttal of Fundamentalist Christians who tout Genesis as a literal event. Even though that the fall of man from divine grace could still about through evolution.

[lgot]

My house's Bible, one of them, Catholic, from my grandmother already says that the events in the OT are not accurate but rather symbolic. The Book of Job is considered rather a parabole for quite sometime...All in all, the catholic church have been smart enough to avoid confrotation with scientific theories and work rather in the morality of society.

[LauraG]

PS- Vargo, are you "LauraG"?

That would be me.

Why?

[Surlethe]

PS- Vargo, are you "LauraG"?

That would be me.

Why?

The exact same article and link were posted on the eteamrevolution boards, and I thought he might be masquerading as "LauraG"; apparently not.

[LauraG]

PS- Vargo, are you "LauraG"?

That would be me.

Why?

The exact same article and link were posted on the eteamrevolution boards, and I thought he might be masquerading as "LauraG"; apparently not.

Nope.

[Darth Servo]

Fundies have been saying Catholics don't follow the Bible for centuries. The Catholics are simply confirming the Fundies were right (for once).

[Superman]

Fundies have been saying Catholics don't follow the Bible for centuries. The Catholics are simply confirming the Fundies were right (for once).

But let's not forget that they got everything else about Catholicism wrong. Some say Catholics worship Mary, that the Pope is Jesus in the flesh, that they worship statues, etc.

[Darth Servo]

Fundies have been saying Catholics don't follow the Bible for centuries. The Catholics are simply confirming the Fundies were right (for once).

But let's not forget that they got everything else about Catholicism wrong. Some say Catholics worship Mary, that the Pope is Jesus in the flesh, that they worship statues, etc.

Hence those two little words in parenthesis.

[Surlethe]

Fundies have been saying Catholics don't follow the Bible for centuries. The Catholics are simply confirming the Fundies were right (for once).

Fundies have said Catholics don't follow the Bible literally -- the fundamentalist "sola scriptura" makes any and all appeals to tradition anathema to fundamentalists.