Have I understood this correctly - evolution question

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2005-10-13 05:56am

Superman wrote:True, but Ligers and Tigons are infertile. Can you think of any examples of two different species producing fertile offspring?

In addition, wolphins are an excellent example.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-10-13 07:17am

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
Superman wrote:True, but Ligers and Tigons are infertile. Can you think of any examples of two different species producing fertile offspring?
In addition, wolphins are an excellent example.

Thanks. Wow, that's really interesting.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-10-13 04:13pm

It was quite interesting, but it is clearly on the blurry borderline between species, since the false killer whale is considered to be a kind of dolphin, at least according to the article. Kind of makes you wonder why these things are fertile, but mules aren't.

Magnetic · Post by **Magnetic** » 2005-10-13 04:30pm

Makes you wonder about the Duck Billed Platypus.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-10-13 05:37pm

Why? Duckbill platypuses have no living close relatives, aside from echidnas, who are clearly incapable of interbreeding with them.

Magnetic · Post by **Magnetic** » 2005-10-14 10:30am

It is just such an oddity.

Wyrm · Post by **Wyrm** » 2005-10-14 11:40am

Magnetic wrote:It is just such an oddity.

The "bill" of the duckbill platypus is not similiar in any way to the bill of a bird. It has touch and electrical receptors and other fun things in its fleshy cuticle.

Magnetic · Post by **Magnetic** » 2005-10-14 02:48pm

Wyrm wrote:
Magnetic wrote:It is just such an oddity.
The "bill" of the duckbill platypus is not similiar in any way to the bill of a bird. It has touch and electrical receptors and other fun things in its fleshy cuticle.

Which makes it even more of an oddity! By the way, what animal is close to it in relationship?

Post by **Edi** » 2005-10-14 04:18pm

The Talkorigins section on the various ways of speciation and the differences between how to determine different species among different sorts of organisms is very interesting reading. If one reads through all of that, it becomes abundantly clear that the author quoted in the OP just conveninetly redefined a lot of things to suit his own purposes and dishonestly cited things that are at least somewhat valid when talking about some other types of organisms than plants. Bait and switch.

Superman wrote:
. Are lions and tigers the same species? No, and yet they can still interbreed, albeit very rarely.
True, but Ligers and Tigons are infertile. Can you think of any examples of two different species producing fertile offspring?

The Asian leopard cat and the common housecat. They have genetic and directly observable bone structure differences (the ALC has one vertebra more in its spine than a house cat), yet they interbreed in the wild in the regions where ALCs normally live. Of the first generation hybrids, males are infertile 99% of the time or more, but almost all of the females are interfertile both with common house cats and ALCs. When bred first with house cats and then among themselves, the hybrids, starting from four generations removed from the original ALC/house cat pairing, are known as the Bengal breed of cats. The Bengal also has that one more vertebra. It's worth noting that breeding Bengals sprang up only after they had been spotted in the wild and people wondered about their unusual appearance (neither like a house cat nor an ALC).

By some definitions, it's technically a separate species from both the ALC and the house cat. What makes things even more interesting is a cat breed called Savannah cat. Savannah cats are a crossbreed of the Bengal and a serval (an African feline with very big ears and a very different build than a common cat). Common house cats and servals are NOT interfertile. Same goes for servals and ALCs. But the Bengal, a hybrid, IS interfertile with the serval, due to its unusual genetic makeup. It's another thing entirely that a Bengal/serval crossbreed is not and would not occur naturally, because they do not share a habitat, and even if they did, the serval would more than likely regard the Bengal as competitor or possibly prey. I don't consider breeding Savannah cats very ethical, as the first generation hybrids are forcibly coerced into the act, but they do make for a very illustrative point in the arguments about speciation and interfertility.

As for where I learned the lot of this, I happen to know some Bengal breeders...

Edi

Akhlut · Post by **Akhlut** » 2005-10-14 05:06pm

Magnetic wrote:
Wyrm wrote:
Magnetic wrote:It is just such an oddity.
The "bill" of the duckbill platypus is not similiar in any way to the bill of a bird. It has touch and electrical receptors and other fun things in its fleshy cuticle.
Which makes it even more of an oddity! By the way, what animal is close to it in relationship?

The only extent animal related to the platypus is the echidna. They're only very distantly related to other mammals, though.