Molyneux wrote:Wait wait wait...how is Moses a brutal murdering terrorist?
As Steel mentioned, God doesn't get all the blame for the plagues of Egypt. I would personally hold the conjurer at least partly responsible. There's also that part where he murders an Egyptian guard. Also, when he came down from Sinai with the Commandments and saw the Hebrews living in "sin" he killed a whole slew of them. That's where he got into an argument with God. Jehova wanted to wipe them all out, but Moses argued on their behalf- successfully- and "only" killed some of them. Nice guy? Yes, compared to God...
Ah...I'd forgotten about the bit with the Golden Calf, that did always leave a bad taste in my mouth when I read about it.
As for the Egyptian guard Moses killed, didn't he kill him while defending a Hebrew slave who was being beaten to death? I'd similarly not consider the plagues to be crimes, considering the whole slavery thing.
Molyneux wrote:As for the Egyptian guard Moses killed, didn't he kill him while defending a Hebrew slave who was being beaten to death? I'd similarly not consider the plagues to be crimes, considering the whole slavery thing.
The plagues aren't crimes? The only one with the authority to free the Hebrews was the Pharoah, and God specificially and deliberately made him unwilling to do so. The reason? So he could display his awesome smiting powers. Please explain how the first-born of every Egyptian mother was responsible for state policy.
Molyneux wrote:As for the Egyptian guard Moses killed, didn't he kill him while defending a Hebrew slave who was being beaten to death? I'd similarly not consider the plagues to be crimes, considering the whole slavery thing.
The plagues aren't crimes? The only one with the authority to free the Hebrews was the Pharoah, and God specificially and deliberately made him unwilling to do so. The reason? So he could display his awesome smiting powers. Please explain how the first-born of every Egyptian mother was responsible for state policy.
*shrug* I personally always viewed the "God hardened the Pharaoh's heart" schtick as either hyperbole or bull. (Or...hyperbull? ...nah.)
Molyneux wrote:As for the Egyptian guard Moses killed, didn't he kill him while defending a Hebrew slave who was being beaten to death? I'd similarly not consider the plagues to be crimes, considering the whole slavery thing.
The plagues aren't crimes? The only one with the authority to free the Hebrews was the Pharoah, and God specificially and deliberately made him unwilling to do so. The reason? So he could display his awesome smiting powers. Please explain how the first-born of every Egyptian mother was responsible for state policy.
*shrug* I personally always viewed the "God hardened the Pharaoh's heart" schtick as either hyperbole or bull. (Or...hyperbull? ...nah.)
So you dont consider the murder of children to be a crime?
Ever hear the phrase "two wrongs dont make a right"?
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Well according to some guy on spacebattles the children deserved to die because they had 'Original Sin' from Adam and Eve. That's stupid if you ask me.
OmegaGuy wrote:Well according to some guy on spacebattles the children deserved to die because they had 'Original Sin' from Adam and Eve. That's stupid if you ask me.
And who gave them it?
That's right, the sociopathic fuck of a god...it doesnt get him in the clear on it.
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
OmegaGuy wrote:Well according to some guy on spacebattles the children deserved to die because they had 'Original Sin' from Adam and Eve. That's stupid if you ask me.
And who gave them it?
That's right, the sociopathic fuck of a god...it doesnt get him in the clear on it.
Okay, yeah, OmegaGuy is completely right. That is a very stupid thing to say (nearly as stupid as the concept of Original Sin in the first place).
As for the slaying of the firstborn...killing kids is always a bad thing, but given that it was the 'weapon of last resort', as it were, and done for the freedom of his people...
Molyneux wrote:
As for the slaying of the firstborn...killing kids is always a bad thing, but given that it was the 'weapon of last resort', as it were, and done for the freedom of his people...
As Nitram said, the killing of innocent kids.
But it's not just that... Pharoh refused to let them go BECAUSE GOD HARDENED HIS HEART.
That's right. God slaughtered all the first born because he made Pharoh not let the Jews go.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest "Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
SirNitram wrote:So it's perfectly alright to slaughter complete innocents in their beds for this? Are you on crack?
I'm not saying it's right, but it is part of the "The survival and wellfare of my people is more important than the survival and wellfare of your people." A policy that I'm wholly suportive of in times of dire need. In this particular situation, killing children was probably unwarranted an unnecessary to make the Pharaoh let the Hebrews go. Assuming that God didn't actually influence Ramses so that he was unwilling to release the Hebrews.
Adrian Laguna wrote:Assuming that God didn't actually influence Ramses so that he was unwilling to release the Hebrews.
It says it right there in fucking Exodus 11.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest "Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
Adrian Laguna wrote:Assuming that God didn't actually influence Ramses so that he was unwilling to release the Hebrews.
Um, why would you assume that? Exodus explicitly says that God did "harden Pharaoh's heart". (Incidentally, that was actually the first Bible passage I ever read that made me see that God was a sadistic fuck. I felt nauseated afterwards.)
Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things... their number is negligible and they are stupid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower
Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things... their number is negligible and they are stupid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower
Molyneux wrote:*shrug* I personally always viewed the "God hardened the Pharaoh's heart" schtick as either hyperbole or bull. (Or...hyperbull? ...nah.)
He gave me the idea.
Reguardless, one way or the other I don't think such drastic action was justified yet. Besides, killing a bunch of children is decidedly unimpressive. God should have slaughtered the Egyptian Army so the Hebrews could get away. He did that anyway when Ramses got all revengeful and stuff, but it would have mede him look like less of a dick if he had done so in the first place.
Adrian Laguna wrote:Reguardless, one way or the other I don't think such drastic action was justified yet. Besides, killing a bunch of children is decidedly unimpressive. God should have slaughtered the Egyptian Army so the Hebrews could get away. He did that anyway when Ramses got all revengeful and stuff, but it would have mede him look like less of a dick if he had done so in the first place.
Or he could have just kept that pillar of fire there until the Hebrews were safely across, then not dropped the water on the Egyptian army. But wait, what am I saying? They were non-Jews. They deserved it.
God is an asshole. Any thinking person would have learned this by Genesis, but by Exodus he starts having his favorite race of nomadic, desert marauders do his dirty work for him.
God's not an asshole, he just has an absolutely TERRIBLE PR guy. He was trying to make God seem like a badass. Should have worked the Mr. T angle, instead of the wrathfull ass hole angle we all know so well.
OmegaGuy wrote:Well according to some guy on spacebattles the children deserved to die because they had 'Original Sin' from Adam and Eve. That's stupid if you ask me.
And who gave them it?
That's right, the sociopathic fuck of a god...it doesnt get him in the clear on it.
Okay, yeah, OmegaGuy is completely right. That is a very stupid thing to say (nearly as stupid as the concept of Original Sin in the first place).
As for the slaying of the firstborn...killing kids is always a bad thing, but given that it was the 'weapon of last resort', as it were, and done for the freedom of his people...
Excuse me, didnt this asshole god create the universe...and if so doesnt that make everyone in it "his"...he thus created people to torment and kill for his own amusment....
This doesnt reduce how much of a fucking twisted asshole he is one bit.
"Prodesse Non Nocere." "It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president." "I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..." "All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism. BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
Zero132132 wrote:God's not an asshole, he just has an absolutely TERRIBLE PR guy. He was trying to make God seem like a badass. Should have worked the Mr. T angle, instead of the wrathfull ass hole angle we all know so well.
That's right, the sociopathic fuck of a god...it doesnt get him in the clear on it.
Okay, yeah, OmegaGuy is completely right. That is a very stupid thing to say (nearly as stupid as the concept of Original Sin in the first place).
As for the slaying of the firstborn...killing kids is always a bad thing, but given that it was the 'weapon of last resort', as it were, and done for the freedom of his people...
Excuse me, didnt this asshole god create the universe...and if so doesnt that make everyone in it "his"...he thus created people to torment and kill for his own amusment....
This doesnt reduce how much of a fucking twisted asshole he is one bit.
I should've been more precise - by 'he' I meant Moses rather than God, but that's fairly moot. It's not the best-written story, anyway. I concede.
