Back to the Future3: Ice vs Gas

[Crossroads Inc.]

Im watching the movie with a friend of mine and we are at the part where Doc has the huge fridge just to make Ice.. My friend scoffs:

"If he could make ice, why can't he make gas"

I mention that you need to refine gas, and for that you need crude oil. He skirts this by saying "Its impossible to make ice any.. they are in the desert" Brillant I know... But he contends it would be Impossible for Doc Brown to make a Fridge in the `1800's...

Meanwhile he seems to think Kerasone could have been easily refined into gas...

Is my friend totally full of crap? As I understand it, a Frezze uses a compressor to make "cold" and is something that could be built with proper materials.

[sketerpot]

Doc could certainly have built a refrigerator. They're really not that complicated, if you don't care about efficiency very much. Look up refrigeration and you won't find any parts that couldn't have been bought or made using 1885 technology. John Gorrie managed to make ice with a refrigerator in the 1850s.

Crude oil was readily available in California in 1885, with oil wells operating in the state and trains carrying stuff around. Refining the oil would not be too difficult -- it's just fractional distillation, and you can do this in small batches using a very simple apparatus. Thermometers had been available for centuries by then, and distillation is easy enough for moonshiners to figure out.

[Winston Blake]

Is my friend totally full of crap? As I understand it, a Frezze uses a compressor to make "cold" and is something that could be built with proper materials.

You don't even need to make a compressor refrigerator, you just need ammonia, water and a heat source. They can be a lot smaller than Doc Brown's.

Your friend's wrong about ice being harder to make than petrol, but now that you mention it, it does seem strange that the Doc couldn't get his hands on any oil. You would think that out of all those machines and equipment in his workshop, he would have tried to make some petrol. Maybe he just liked 1885?

[Superman]

I don't know, but it sort of reminds me how the Professor on "Gilligan's Island" could build a working car out of coconuts, but he could never seem to fix the hole in the side of the boat...

[Flagg]

He was happy in 1885, IIRC. And the reason they didn't have time to make any gasoline is because of the ticking clock plot device.

[Darth Servo]

Doc was initially stuck in 1885 because of a damaged microchip. It wasn't until Marty went back that the "no gas" became a problem.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Doc was initially stuck in 1885 because of a damaged microchip. It wasn't until Marty went back that the "no gas" became a problem.

Correct. They had to retrofit the DeLorean with transistors from the '50s which were quite noticeable, along with new tyres. I can only expect that the Doc, had he wanted to go home and had the chip, would have gotten oil to refine in no time at all. As it is in the original story, Biff was the deciding factor against that route.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Which brings up something im not sure many of us think about...

In the movie, once Marty goes back, thier are "TWO" Time machines.. one boreded up in a mine, the other hidden in Doc Browns blacksmith..

Isn't time travel fun?


As for the Ice vs Gas bussines, thank you all for the input, as it seems both could have been produced given time.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Since the alternate timelines method is used in the movies, the DeLorean in the mine wouldn't be there, since it was taken out and used, hence no paradox.

[Solauren]

Wrong.

It was put in by Doc a few days prior to a later version of itself arriving.

The later version then leaves.

So, for a time, two deloreans.

Hell, during the day of the hill valley storm, there were 3 Delorians present

1 - Silver Mine
2 - Original Incident
3 - Back to save the future from alternate 1985

Now that's fun time travel

[Sea Skimmer]

The car could have been adapted to run on hydrogen gas with a carburetor. It would have taken some testing to get the mixture right, but it would work fine and the gas could be made easily. This would be easier then trying to refine gasoline; things would be absurdly simple had the Deloran had a diesel engine since then the addition of a simple fuel heater would have let it run on anything that burns.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Hell, during the day of the hill valley storm, there were 3 Delorians present

1 - Silver Mine
2 - Original Incident
3 - Back to save the future from alternate 1985

Now that's fun time travel

Actually, im not Sure thats correct...

Technically, the Old Silver Min Delorian wouldn't exist until AFTER Doc got struck by lightning. So there we're only ever Two Time machines that day.

Interestingly enough, if yo uhad BEEN in the Silver mine at the time of Docs disapperance, you should see the 'old' Delorian "Appear"

[Flagg]

Hell, during the day of the hill valley storm, there were 3 Delorians present

1 - Silver Mine
2 - Original Incident
3 - Back to save the future from alternate 1985

Now that's fun time travel

Actually, im not Sure thats correct...

Technically, the Old Silver Min Delorian wouldn't exist until AFTER Doc got struck by lightning. So there we're only ever Two Time machines that day.

Interestingly enough, if yo uhad BEEN in the Silver mine at the time of Docs disapperance, you should see the 'old' Delorian "Appear"

Wait, if you were actually in the Silver Mine wouldn't you not see it appear because the area is being observed? Shroedingers cat and all...

[General Soontir Fel]

Wrong.

It was put in by Doc a few days prior to a later version of itself arriving.

The later version then leaves.

So, for a time, two deloreans.

Hell, during the day of the hill valley storm, there were 3 Delorians present

1 - Silver Mine
2 - Original Incident
3 - Back to save the future from alternate 1985

Now that's fun time travel

If you want to get technical, there were a few hours in which there were four Delorians:

1. Original
2. Silver Mine
3. Old Biff's stolen one
4. Back to save the future

Here's something else I just thought of: there's a scene in which the 1985 Doc covertly helps the 1955 Doc to set up the wire that'll help Marty return to 1985, and if Marty didn't return, the 1985 Doc wouldn't have a time machine to return and help set up the wire...

[Darth Yoshi]

Yes, but 1985 Doc didn't do anything that 1955 Doc couldn't have done by himself before the deadline.

[Darth Servo]

Here's something else I just thought of: there's a scene in which the 1985 Doc covertly helps the 1955 Doc to set up the wire that'll help Marty return to 1985, and if Marty didn't return, the 1985 Doc wouldn't have a time machine to return and help set up the wire...

Yes, and BTTF2 Marty keeps Biffs buddy's from beating up BTTF1 Marty at the dance.

[General Soontir Fel]

Here's something else I just thought of: there's a scene in which the 1985 Doc covertly helps the 1955 Doc to set up the wire that'll help Marty return to 1985, and if Marty didn't return, the 1985 Doc wouldn't have a time machine to return and help set up the wire...

Yes, and BTTF2 Marty keeps Biffs buddy's from beating up BTTF1 Marty at the dance.

But there, they got into the gym and tried to take the BTTF1 Marty because of BTTF2 Marty in the first place.

[Isolder74]

Technically your friend is correct. It would have been easy for Doc Brown to have gotten gasoline by refining it. Gasoline was a waste product from the production of Kerosene. Drake discovered how to drill oil in 1859. Kerosene was being made in 1885. If they are making Kerosene then Kerosene would be a viable alternative to Gasoline in the Delorian. The Kerosene will run a little rich but the car will run well enough to get to 88 mph.

Of course Doc tried to run it on Whiskey and the results of that idea made the train trick all they had left. sigh

[Darth Servo]

Of course Doc tried to run it on Whiskey and the results of that idea made the train trick all they had left. sigh

Of course, after Marty beat Bufford in the fight, there wasn't any real rush as Bufford was arrested. I suppose a member of his gang might come shoot Marth or Doc in the back or something in retribution.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Of course, after Marty beat Bufford in the fight, there wasn't any real rush as Bufford was arrested. I suppose a member of his gang might come shoot Marth or Doc in the back or something in retribution.

Why go through all the rigmarole of fixing the ICE and getting petrol when you can go with the train plan that was immediately after the duel? Was certainly worth trying at least.

[Darth Servo]

Why go through all the rigmarole of fixing the ICE and getting petrol when you can go with the train plan that was immediately after the duel? Was certainly worth trying at least.

Um, because with the train plan, if you don't manage to get up to 88, you go plunging down into the big ravine along with the train.

[freker]

Darth Servo wrote

Um, because with the train plan, if you don't manage to get up to 88, you go plunging down into the big ravine along with the train.

say that the plan wouldn't have worked and the delorian did plunge into the ravine, say at 70-80 mph. could the fall accelerate it to 88? and what would have happened then?

[Flagg]

Darth Servo wrote

Um, because with the train plan, if you don't manage to get up to 88, you go plunging down into the big ravine along with the train.

say that the plan wouldn't have worked and the delorian did plunge into the ravine, say at 70-80 mph. could the fall accelerate it to 88? and what would have happened then?

Oh yeah, he'd have been at 88.

The good news? He went back to the future.

The bad news? He's a modern art piece at the bottom of the ravine.

[Darth Yoshi]

Well, there's a remote chance that they might've been able to hoverboard to safety, like how Doc did with Clara. But I certainly wouldn't count on that as my Plan B.