Have you noticed...

[Dargos]

That Bush's (and his staff's) war retoric has slowly started to include more and more of the "Liberate/Free the Iraqi people" slant. I think ol' Baby Bush is looking for "morale" grounds to drum up popular support for unilateral military action.

If you take a look at his popularity rateing it has droped from 96% down to just over 50%. And a minority of American approve military action without U.N. consent(I think it was between 35-40%). He's starting to grasp for straws guys.

[Edi]

Yes, I've noticed, even from what we see here instead of the full-day coverage you no doubt get. It's so bleedingly obvious it hurts...

Edi

[Mr Bean]

That Bush's (and his staff's) war retoric has slowly started to include more and more of the "Liberate/Free the Iraqi people" slant. I think ol' Baby Bush is looking for "morale" grounds to drum up popular support for unilateral military action.

Acutal no... He's beens saying free the people of Iraq from the begining along with "Kill Saddam Dead" speach
What your hearing is full court Medial Blitz not nessary a changing in tone

And a minority of American approve military action without U.N. consent(I think it was between 35-40%). He's starting to grasp for straws guys.

Which is ok thanks to Resoultion 1440
And if people hold true to their normacs, If he DOES go ahead no matter if 80% Are aginst it, AFTER its over you should see him jump up to 70% or so...


Remeber fokes he only needs 51% of the(voting) population to get elected

[kheegster]

No, he DOESN't need 51% to get elected.

[Montcalm]

That Bush's (and his staff's) war retoric has slowly started to include more and more of the "Liberate/Free the Iraqi people" slant. I think ol' Baby Bush is looking for "morale" grounds to drum up popular support for unilateral military action.

If you take a look at his popularity rateing it has droped from 96% down to just over 50%. And a minority of American approve military action without U.N. consent(I think it was between 35-40%). He's starting to grasp for straws guys.

He is so obsessed with Saddam than terrorists who kill americans are from other country like kuwait or saudi arabia all suposed to be arab allies of the US.

[Arrow]

Just 51% of the electorial college.

[Vympel]

Ok can someone bring me up to speed on the "Bush stole the election" thing?

[Stormbringer]

Ok can someone bring me up to speed on the "Bush stole the election" thing?

Florida had a bunch of dumb asses that couldn't vote properly. Their votes, after a few court battles, were ruled, as they legally should, inadmissable. And every liberal in America has been whining that Bush stole the election ever since.

[TrailerParkJawa]

That Bush's (and his staff's) war retoric has slowly started to include more and more of the "Liberate/Free the Iraqi people" slant. I think ol' Baby Bush is looking for "morale" grounds to drum up popular support for unilateral military action.

If you take a look at his popularity rateing it has droped from 96% down to just over 50%. And a minority of American approve military action without U.N. consent(I think it was between 35-40%). He's starting to grasp for straws guys.

I think he is grasping at straws when it comes to showing the American public that Iraq presents a clear and present danger to the United States. I think that he is getting pretty frustrated that the world is not going alone. I almost expect him to stamp his feet in tv and throw a fit, "BUT I WANNA INVADE NOW!"

I fully supported him on taking out the Taliban, but as for Iraq he has not convinced me.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

That Bush's (and his staff's) war retoric has slowly started to include more and more of the "Liberate/Free the Iraqi people" slant. I think ol' Baby Bush is looking for "morale" grounds to drum up popular support for unilateral military action.

If you take a look at his popularity rateing it has droped from 96% down to just over 50%. And a minority of American approve military action without U.N. consent(I think it was between 35-40%). He's starting to grasp for straws guys.

I think he is grasping at straws when it comes to showing the American public that Iraq presents a clear and present danger to the United States. I think that he is getting pretty frustrated that the world is not going alone. I almost expect him to stamp his feet in tv and throw a fit, "BUT I WANNA INVADE NOW!"

I fully supported him on taking out the Taliban, but as for Iraq he has not convinced me.

Perhaps be brought up the idea of an invasion too early. He should have proposed a war on Iraq after any WMDs were found. After all, I believe more people support such a war if WMDs are found. In my opinion, I believe there would be better alternatives to war, but I'm not about to join a bunch of aging hippies in whining about it in public.

[Durandal]

Jon Stewart put it best on The Daily Show ...

"Okay, Saddam! Bush wants to see you at the park! Right after sixth period! Unless you're a pussy!"

[The Dark]

Ok can someone bring me up to speed on the "Bush stole the election" thing?

Florida had a bunch of dumb asses that couldn't vote properly. Their votes, after a few court battles, were ruled, as they legally should, inadmissable. And every liberal in America has been whining that Bush stole the election ever since.

Ehh...there actually was some misconduct by both parties (though the media will never mention that). I didn't vote in that election (too young), I don't really care that much since it's all over, but the Republican Party could legally have been charged with kidnapping in a few cases. Happened to a friend's grandmother, they deliberately drove her to the wrong voting district and kept her there until after the polls closed.

[Johonebesus]

Ok can someone bring me up to speed on the "Bush stole the election" thing?

Gore won the popular vote by a slim margin. However, in Florida, Bush won by a few hundred votes. Florida law mandates that all of the electors vote for the candidate who won the popular vote, so all 25 of Florida's votes went to Bush, which gave him enough votes in the Electoral College to win. So Bush was not chosen by the people. Ironically, the law forcing the electors to vote for the winner of the popular election was intended to prevent the college from electing someone who lost the popular vote. As it stands, 50% of Floridian voters were effectively disenfranchised. The law ought to mandate that the electors split their vote in proportion to the popular vote. 13-12 for Bush would have accurately reflected the will of the voters of Florida and still given Gore the victory.

As for the rest, there were poorly designed ballots that confused stupid people into voting for Buchanan rather than Gore. Even Buchanan himself said that he should have gotten so many votes. Some of the poll machines were of a poor design, making it very easy for stupid people to mess up the ballots. It is quite likely that if there had not been so many stupid voters using such poor devices, Gore would have won. Then, the Supreme Court ordered to stop the recount until it could reach a decision, then later decided that the recount was acceptable in principle, but it was now too late to finish it, since the Court had stopped it. Not that the recount would have made any difference, since most of the spoiled ballots could not objectively be read.

[The Dark]

To follow up on the "poor voting machine" problem, all of Florida's machines have been replaced with new machines to prevent similar problems in the future. Hopefully our geriatrics will be able to wrap their minds around the concept of new machines.

[Frank Hipper]

Maybe if people were disabused of the idea that the legal voting age in this country is 55, we wouldn't have problems like that.

[HemlockGrey]

Why isn't the electoral college dismissed anyway? Do we really need it anymore?

[^^]

To follow up on the "poor voting machine" problem, all of Florida's machines have been replaced with new machines to prevent similar problems in the future. Hopefully our geriatrics will be able to wrap their minds around the concept of new machines.

Are they electronic voting machines with software written by Diebold, a GOP contributor? If so, O_O

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that thousands of people in 2000 couldn't vote because a Texan company handling felon lists mislabled them as felons. They still havn't fixed the list to this day. Greg Palast covers this in detail.

[The Dark]

Why isn't the electoral college dismissed anyway? Do we really need it anymore?

We discussed that in politics. It was because the Founding Fathers were afraid of democracy. It was a way of keeping the people from voting for the President. You're really not voting for the President, but for an elector who chooses who to vote for. It can and has happened that an elector will vote for the opposite party. We couldn't really think of a reason to keep the electoral college rather than make it a split of electoral votes within the state by popular vote (get 75% of the vote, get 75% of the electoral). It would make sense to me.

[Andrew J.]

IIRC, the idiots in Florida screwed up the electronic voting machines as well.

[ArmorPierce]

Why isn't the electoral college dismissed anyway? Do we really need it anymore?

We discussed that in politics. It was because the Founding Fathers were afraid of democracy. It was a way of keeping the people from voting for the President. You're really not voting for the President, but for an elector who chooses who to vote for. It can and has happened that an elector will vote for the opposite party. We couldn't really think of a reason to keep the electoral college rather than make it a split of electoral votes within the state by popular vote (get 75% of the vote, get 75% of the electoral). It would make sense to me.

The electorial College may have made some sense 200 years ago but it is now obsolete and should be taken out. If it didn't exist we would have had Gore as president rather than Bush. The electoral college is in theory suppose to represent the popular vote, but for Florida and luckily for Bush it is fucked over so that he ended up winning.

[Shinova]

Why isn't the electoral college dismissed anyway? Do we really need it anymore?

We discussed that in politics. It was because the Founding Fathers were afraid of democracy. It was a way of keeping the people from voting for the President. You're really not voting for the President, but for an elector who chooses who to vote for. It can and has happened that an elector will vote for the opposite party. We couldn't really think of a reason to keep the electoral college rather than make it a split of electoral votes within the state by popular vote (get 75% of the vote, get 75% of the electoral). It would make sense to me.

The electorial College may have made some sense 200 years ago but it is now obsolete and should be taken out. If it didn't exist we would have had Gore as president rather than Bush. The electoral college is in theory suppose to represent the popular vote, but for Florida and luckily for Bush it is fucked over so that he ended up winning.

Electoral college was made cause the founding fathers didn't think that most of the country's people were educated or knowledgeble enough to vote for the right person.

This concept of people being too stupid to vote is even more applicable now

[Uraniun235]

It also prevents the less populous states from having no effective voice in the race for the Presidency.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Why isn't the electoral college dismissed anyway? Do we really need it anymore?

We discussed that in politics. It was because the Founding Fathers were afraid of democracy. It was a way of keeping the people from voting for the President. You're really not voting for the President, but for an elector who chooses who to vote for. It can and has happened that an elector will vote for the opposite party. We couldn't really think of a reason to keep the electoral college rather than make it a split of electoral votes within the state by popular vote (get 75% of the vote, get 75% of the electoral). It would make sense to me.

The electorial College may have made some sense 200 years ago but it is now obsolete and should be taken out. If it didn't exist we would have had Gore as president rather than Bush. The electoral college is in theory suppose to represent the popular vote, but for Florida and luckily for Bush it is fucked over so that he ended up winning.

The problem is that the concept of the electoral college is even more applicable now today than it was when it was first started. If we abolished the electoral college tomorrow, then the US suddenly becomes a democracy in which only the opinion of the big cities on the East and Left Coast counts. Without an electoral college, canidates won't even take the time to campaign in states like New Mexico or Arizona, which have voting populations much smaller than the city of Los Angeles.

This would be nice for one party who can consistently rely on the votes of homeless people (who they gather up and bus over to the polling places), people on the government dole, and union members (most of which tend to be clustered around the big cities.) But for a truly representative government, you need the balancing effect brought on by the electoral college. (Yes, I am aware that Congress is chosen in a more democratic fashion, but the President is the country's mouthpiece and controls nominations to the Supreme Court.)

[HemlockGrey]

Then it must be regulated better- I suggest a federal law that states that all electors must vote as representative of th percentage of votes they recieved- i.e., if a state has 10 electors, and 100 voters, and 90 voted for Bob and 10 voted for Joe, then 1 elector must vote for Joe and 9 electors must vote for Bob.