Middle Ages Preferable to Women over 1800's?

[SisterMiriamGodwinson]

I've read somewhere women actually received better treatment in the MA(other than random village pillaging.) than they did in the 1800's. I can't seem to find the name of the author, or whether there was a book written on the subject or if it was just an entry in a book I read. Has anyone read it before? I think its old.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I've read somewhere women actually received better treatment in the MA(other than random village pillaging.) than they did in the 1800's. I can't seem to find the name of the author, or whether there was a book written on the subject or if it was just an entry in a book I read. Has anyone read it before? I think its old.

Social control mechanisms were less strict and less effective generally, so the thesis is a very plausible one.

[charlemagne]

There's certainly some truth to it, especially since the middle ages weren't for some parts the dark nasty shithole most people think them to have been. The middle ages saw the rise of European literature and culture, ancient Greek and Roman texts have been adapted and whole new concepts (the Arthusromane) evolved, too.

Also the middle ages are famous for their minnelieder, songs of love and praise to a (noble) woman of higher standing than the troubadour writing and singing the song. So at least noble women have been unbelievably admired in some cases, with the admirer declaring himself their vassal. There was even talk of true love, and the whole concept was based on the woman doing the choosing. Those songs were sometimes even pretty explicit in erotic themes considering the times.

[Edi]

There's certainly some truth to it, especially since the middle ages weren't for some parts the dark nasty shithole most people think them to have been. The middle ages saw the rise of European literature and culture, ancient Greek and Roman texts have been adapted and whole new concepts (the Arthusromane) evolved, too.

Also the middle ages are famous for their minnelieder, songs of love and praise to a (noble) woman of higher standing than the troubadour writing and singing the song. So at least noble women have been unbelievably admired in some cases, with the admirer declaring himself their vassal. There was even talk of true love, and the whole concept was based on the woman doing the choosing. Those songs were sometimes even pretty explicit in erotic themes considering the times.

Those songs have nothing to do with the reality of daily life back then, so they are utterly irrelevant to the point discussed in the OP. You are correct that not all the world was a shithole at that time (just most of it), but the culture and literature stuff had sweet fuckall to do with it where that was the case.

[Stark]

'Treated better' is uselessly vague. Relatively? To what? Socially? Compared to whom? I'm not sure the odds of dying during childbirth count as 'treated better'. At the low end it's arguable the distinction was less than it was in the Victorian age (since scrabbling for survival means everyone has to work), but the social structure and militarism didn't help the place of women in the society. Then again, I imagine the argument chose the 1800s deliberately to accentuate the Victorian social mores.

The idea that a society was fair and wonderful based on it's fucking romances is so retarded I can't think of a word for it.

[Imperial Overlord]

Far too vague. The Medieval Period roughly spans the period from 600-1500 and covers all of Europe, although there is plenty of argument over what the exact dates should be. Who and what are we comparing? If we're talking factory worker in a crime ridden, pollution choked industrial city living in grinding poverty and working in a very unsafe environment, then a number of plausible medieval scenarios are going to beat it. On the other hand, trying to live through the Black Plague isn't so great.

[Winston Blake]

The idea that a society was fair and wonderful based on it's fucking romances is so retarded I can't think of a word for it.

I'd just put it under nostalgia. People like me only know 50s Western culture from films and TV shows. But it's become ingrained that since 50s entertainment displays a wholesome, perfect society, then the era really was like that (perhaps because modern media reflects real life pretty closely). It's like transgenerational rose-tinted glasses.

[SisterMiriamGodwinson]

Hm.. I think that the book mentioned the Middle Ages in the "High Middle Ages".

[Imperial Overlord]

The Middle Ages are commonly broken down into Early, Middle or High, and Late Medieval (or Renaissance) periods. There was more social mobility and societal roles were less static than in the Late Medieval period, so yes women in some areas would have enjoyed more legal rights and social freedom than the Victorian Era. As to whether it was preferable to the Victorian Era, again it depends specific circumstances we're comparing. Victorian Era factory worker or living in a war torn Balkan province would suck, as would living in any place about to get sacked by mercenaries.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

It's definitely true during the 'Dark ages'. In England, at least, Women could own their own property, charge men with rape, be in charge of co-ed Monk-Nun abbeys, and lead their people in victorious wars (more than you can say about that Boadicea) against Viking incursions.

Read 'The Year 1000'. It goes into much better detail.

[charlemagne]

The idea that a society was fair and wonderful based on it's fucking romances is so retarded I can't think of a word for it.

Point taken, although I certainly didn't want to sound like I'd think everything was fair and wonderful in the middle ages.

[Posner]

A less serious look at the issue.

NSFW