Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

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Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Eight-Armed Animal Preceded Dinosaurs
Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News
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Oct. 30, 2008 -- An eight-armed creature that looked more like a modern party favor than a living animal colonized a large section of the world's oceans over 300 million years before the first dinosaurs emerged, suggests a new study.

The findings represent the first comparable animal fossils from the Ediacaran Period, 635 to 541 million years ago, which appear in two drastically different preservation environments -- black shale of South China and quartz rock of South Australia.

"According to paleogeographic reconstructions, South China and South Australia were close to each other at the time, belonging to a supercontinent called Gondwana," lead author Maoyan Zhu told Discovery News.

Zhu, a scientist at the Nanjing Institute of Geology and Paleontology at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, first helped to make the China/Aussie connection two years ago during a Beijing conference. He showed a photo of the unusual eight-armed creature, called Eoandromeda octobrachiata, to co-author James Gehling of the South Australia Museum.

"He was so surprised and immediately opened his laptop and showed me images of new fossils uncovered from a new locality at the Flinders Ranges of South Australia," Zhu said. "We wondered if these were the same fossils."

Zhu, Gehling and their colleagues collected eight compressions of the animals from the Doushantuo Formation at Wenghui, China. They then traveled to Flinders Ranges, Australia, and collected seven specimens, leaving 31 others on two excavated and reassembled beds.

The findings are published in the November issue of Geology.

There is no question the creature, believed to represent one type of animal, had a lot of arms.

"The eight arms are clearly preserved in our specimens," Zhu said, adding that the arms were tubular and in close contact with each other, but not joined.

He and his colleagues believe the animal was a soft-bodied, dome-shaped organism that lived on seabeds and fed by absorbing dissolved nutrients from the ambient environment.

Before the latest fossils were found, some researchers identified the creatures as lichens or fungus-like organisms, but Zhu and his team suspect that at least some Ediacara fossils represent now-extinct diploblastic animals, or creatures that possess only two cellular layers separated by a jelly-type substance.

"Diploblastic animals are common creatures on present day Earth," he said, mentioning that jellyfish, corals and sea anemones belong to the group.

"These animals (display) radial symmetry but lack complex organs, as shown by E. octobrachiata," he added.

The multi-armed creature, and several other early life forms, went extinct around 542 million years ago, which Zhu said, "left empty niches for the subsequent Cambrian explosion of complex animals." Representatives of nearly all existent animals emerged at this time, when a rapid increase in oxygen made respiration and metabolism possible.

In a separate paper, Shuhai Xiao, a researcher in the Department of Geosciences at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, and colleague Marc Laflamme provide an overview of Ediacara fossils.

In the paper, which has been accepted for publication in the journal Trends in Ecology & Evolution, Xiao and Laflamme agree that, "Ediacara biota bridges the cryptic evolution of multicellular life in the early Ediacaran and the extraordinary radiation of animals in the Cambrian period."

In addition to the eight-armed creature, they describe other early living things that looked like leaves, shells, stars and something almost akin to a peace symbol.

Xiao and Laflamme hope that as the Ediacara fossil database grows ever larger, more mysteries about these very early organisms will be solved.
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Mildly interesting, and I don't care if they're not spiders, eight legged buggers are spiders in my book, even if they are more like underwater snails or conches!
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by Molyneux »

You must have an interesting view of octopi.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by Johonebesus »

DEATH wrote:Mildly interesting, and I don't care if they're not spiders, eight legged buggers are spiders in my book, even if they are more like underwater snails or conches!
Probably more like anemones or sponges, or just maybe jellyfish. I think the tentative consensus is that there were few free moving animals, and those mainly grazed on giant mats of bacteria that coated the sea floors. There may have been worms and simple jellies, but since nothing had chitin or mineralized parts, it's hard to be sure. The really neat possibility is that there may have been entire kingdoms that no longer exist. To me the Ediacaran is much more interesting and alien than the Cambrian.

I wish they didn't have to mention dinosaurs. They were relatively recent players in Earth's history. There was a huge amount of time with complex and fascinating liferforms before dinosaurs or even archosaurs appeared. Describing the Ediacaran as before the dinosaurs is like describing the late Neolithic period that saw the rise of the first towns as before Charlemagne.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

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Johonebesus wrote:I wish they didn't have to mention dinosaurs. They were relatively recent players in Earth's history. There was a huge amount of time with complex and fascinating liferforms before dinosaurs or even archosaurs appeared. Describing the Ediacaran as before the dinosaurs is like describing the late Neolithic period that saw the rise of the first towns as before Charlemagne.
Yeah, but if you're writing for a general audience, dinosaurs are a good "landmark", because 1) everybody has heard of them, and 2) most people know they lived a really long time ago. "A really long time before a really long time ago" is about the best understanding most laymen are going to get; I love prehistoric life and even I have a hard time with numbers that size. For that matter, most people have trouble dealing with the timescales involved in human history; in my experience, people divide time into "my lifetime", "the last hundred years", "everything between Ancient Rome and a hundred years ago", "Ancient Rome", "cave men", and "dinosaurs". Even getting people to understand the Pyramids were already ancient by the time of Jesus is tough. Humans just aren't wired to deal with much longer than a human lifetime; and why would we be? There's no reason for evolution to select for anything longer.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

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Molyneux wrote:You must have an interesting view of octopi.
Octopodes. *scurries away*
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by Darth Raptor »

The Ediacaran fauna looks like alien life because it is. Most forms are completely unrelated to anything alive today, while the fauna of the Cambrian and later are really just early, primitive versions of extant creatures. It's an era I really hope to learn more about.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by InnerBrat »

I very nearly came in my pants when I saw this. These are the best earliest fossils I've ever seen. SO DAMNED PRETTY.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

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hongi wrote:
Molyneux wrote:You must have an interesting view of octopi.
Octopodes. *scurries away*
Dagnabbit, they're all freaking correct! Octopi, octopodes, octopussies, octopuses. They're all accepted plurals of "octopus".

I don't know too much about preCambrian fossils, but anyone who claims that Cambrian animals are not alien should take a hard look at Hallucigenia.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by Apollonius »

Octopi is as wrong as walri, doofi, autobi and toysauri. :P

DEATH, it's only a spider if it has eight legs. What makes you think these are legs? For all we know, these might be heads or tongues. Personally, I like to think they are penii... Sorry: penes... I mean: penises! :D
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Apollonius wrote: DEATH, it's only a spider if it has eight legs. What makes you think these are legs? For all we know, these might be heads or tongues. Personally, I like to think they are penii... Sorry: penes... I mean: penises! :D
Ah fuckit you humourless gobs, so it's a tiny Cthulhu head :P
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

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Apollonius wrote:Octopi is as wrong as walri, doofi, autobi and toysauri. :P

DEATH, it's only a spider if it has eight legs. What makes you think these are legs? For all we know, these might be heads or tongues. Personally, I like to think they are penii... Sorry: penes... I mean: penises! :D
Merriam Webster backs me up, man.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by Kitsune »

Could we only have part of teh organism her like with Anomalocaris for the longest time?
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

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Molyneux wrote:
hongi wrote:
Molyneux wrote:You must have an interesting view of octopi.
Octopodes. *scurries away*
Dagnabbit, they're all freaking correct! Octopi, octopodes, octopussies, octopuses. They're all accepted plurals of "octopus".

I don't know too much about preCambrian fossils, but anyone who claims that Cambrian animals are not alien should take a hard look at Hallucigenia.
Hallucigenia has been somewhat revised with the discovery of additional fossils and is now arguably (though not proven to be) an onychophoran, or perhaps a relative of anomalocaris which really IS weird what with its lobed body appendages, legs/manipulators that for a long time were thought to be a variety of shrimp, and it's unique circular jaw structure. But my personal favorite has always been wiwaxia, but even more so since some specimens were found with fine enough preservation to reveal structures in its "scales" that might mean it was iridescent which is a cool thing to determine from a fossil.

Cambrian fossils are alien. Ediacaran fossils are bizarrely alien.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by Darth Fanboy »

InnerBrat wrote:I very nearly came in my pants when I saw this. These are the best earliest fossils I've ever seen. SO DAMNED PRETTY.
If that's true then what did you think of John McCain? :wink:

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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by Darth Fanboy »

Ghetto Edit:

Forgive me for asking, but my memory isn't what it used to be. China and Australia were on opposing sides of the Tethys sea about this time when Gondawana was a continent, but wasn't South Australia right up against Antarctica at the time? If that is the case and these little guys existed long enough to watch the continents drift apart that gives them a really long period of existence. Take that YEC's!

I'd love to see an artistic rendering of what they looked like alive.
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Re: Before the Dinosaurs? Atlantis "Spiders"

Post by Molyneux »

Broomstick wrote:Hallucigenia has been somewhat revised with the discovery of additional fossils and is now arguably (though not proven to be) an onychophoran, or perhaps a relative of anomalocaris which really IS weird what with its lobed body appendages, legs/manipulators that for a long time were thought to be a variety of shrimp, and it's unique circular jaw structure. But my personal favorite has always been wiwaxia, but even more so since some specimens were found with fine enough preservation to reveal structures in its "scales" that might mean it was iridescent which is a cool thing to determine from a fossil.

Cambrian fossils are alien. Ediacaran fossils are bizarrely alien.
Wiwaxia...I have not heard of that before. Thank you for giving me something to look up tonight when I get home!

And yes, I had heard of Hallucigenia being revised - but it's still pretty darn bizarre. You have a point as far as the relative levels of alien nature between the two periods, though.
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