Why Are Homeopathic Remedies Legal Again?

[ThomasP]

In my experience dealing with people that gravitate towards homeopathy and other questionable "alternative" methods, it's generally not the marketing at fault. Not entirely, at least.

Which is to say, these people have found some reason to reject modern evidence-based medicine as evil and alternative medicine as good. Because, well, it just is.

This is the same crowd that uses such statements as "you need to keep an open mind" and other tripe in that vein. And they'll actively get pissed off if you try to dissuade them - they don't want to hear about your "facts" and "peer reviewed research". The pharm companies all fund that, of course.

Regulating it more heavily certainly wouldn't make matters any worse, don't get me wrong. It would at least dissuade some of the more on the fence types, and it could help control some of the outrageous claims (implied if not outright stated).

It's just that you can't cure stupid, and a good chunk of these people will find a way to pursue one crackpot approach or another regardless.

[Darth Wong]

Regulating it more heavily certainly wouldn't make matters any worse, don't get me wrong. It would at least dissuade some of the more on the fence types, and it could help control some of the outrageous claims (implied if not outright stated).

It would also feed their bunker mentality and conspiracy theorist mindset. Once you go past cracking down on false advertising, I don't know what else can be done without being unreasonable.

[Simon_Jester]

There is nothing misleading about the statement that a product "is used in homeopathic medicine to treat X". I suppose you could force them to say that homeopathic medicine is not considered scientific if you're concerned about it, but the statement itself is nonetheless true and not misleading at all.

Mind you, it would be funny if bottled-water companies started adding "can also be used as a homeopathic remedy" to their labels, since that would also be true. The infinitesimal trace of supposedly active ingredient in a genuine homeopathic remedy has zero scientific effect compared to none at all, so you could use any sample of purified water as a homeopathic remedy, with exactly the same results.

I like it; it's a clever reversal of the idea of forcing the homeopaths to classify their products along with inert materials.

They get their concentrations by repeatedly diluting it by a 1:100 ratio, so if they do it six times, they get a concentration of 1:100^6, but would only need to use six times as much water as they originally had.

Except they actually do it 20 or 30 times. 30C dilutions are not uncommon in homeopathic remedies. (In the Randi video Bean posted, he shows 30X homeopathic sleeping pills. To produce those pills, starting with a single milligram of caffiene, you would have to use the earth's entire hydrosphere twenty five million times over.)

Yes, so they only use twenty or thirty times as much water as they originally had. You're still right; they're contaminating the world's water supply with fully activated and operational 20X or 25X homeopathic caffeine solutions from their wastewater bottles. No wonder America is going through an insomnia epidemic.

[ThomasP]

It would also feed their bunker mentality and conspiracy theorist mindset. Once you go past cracking down on false advertising, I don't know what else can be done without being unreasonable.

Almost without question, yes. This is a group that, by and large, already believes the FDA and mainstream doctors are being paid off by Big Pharma (assuming we're talking a mostly American crowd, I don't know if this is quite as prevalent outside North America). Start adding on further regulation to that and they'll just add it to their list of justifications.

A false advertising ban would go a long way in itself, you'd think - then again, the FDA already mandates a "this is a supplement and has not been proven to work" kind of label on dietary supplements. IIRC most "homeopathic cures" are sold under that provision (but I could be wrong about that; if not, then requiring something similar might be useful).

Of course the real question is, are we trying to rehabilitate the kooks, or are we trying to keep otherwise uninformed people from getting suckered? I'm not sure anything can be done regarding the kooks, but you can make an effort to inform the uninformed.

The kooks may just have to settle for another excuse

[Dooey Jo]

Except they actually do it 20 or 30 times. 30C dilutions are not uncommon in homeopathic remedies. (In the Randi video Bean posted, he shows 30X homeopathic sleeping pills. To produce those pills, starting with a single milligram of caffiene, you would have to use the earth's entire hydrosphere twenty five million times over.)

Well yes, if they wanted all of the original substance to end up in a dilution, they would need ridiculous amounts of water. However, they throw most (well, all, really) of the stuff away with the unused dilutions. Once they have one 29X dilution, they can use it to make 100 30X dilutions.

[frogcurry]

I'm absolutely shocked to the fucking core that this isn't a put on by someone on this board. I thought the OP was piss-taking.... why aren't we sending the practicioners of this stuff to jail, this isn't one of those things where the science says something that isn't provable by common sense or basic observation, they are clearly taking people for a ride.

I'm thinking I'll write a letter to my MP shortly to complain about the NHS funding some of this shit (£4 million a year!), but I don't think that'll do much. Not sure what else I can do, but if anyone has any suggestions I'm up for it.

[KrauserKrauser]

Join me in my venture to promote Homeopathic All Cure Water?

It's cures everything that Homeopathy can cure! It'll sell like Hotcakes!

[[R_H]]

Of course the real question is, are we trying to rehabilitate the kooks, or are we trying to keep otherwise uninformed people from getting suckered? I'm not sure anything can be done regarding the kooks, but you can make an effort to inform the uninformed.

This video would probably help demonstrating to the uninformed how ridiculous homeopathy is, especially the bit in about the alcohol at the end.

[defanatic]

Except they actually do it 20 or 30 times. 30C dilutions are not uncommon in homeopathic remedies. (In the Randi video Bean posted, he shows 30X homeopathic sleeping pills. To produce those pills, starting with a single milligram of caffiene, you would have to use the earth's entire hydrosphere twenty five million times over.)

Well yes, if they wanted all of the original substance to end up in a dilution, they would need ridiculous amounts of water. However, they throw most (well, all, really) of the stuff away with the unused dilutions. Once they have one 29X dilution, they can use it to make 100 30X dilutions.

At that point, I might question whether they actually bother with the 'purification' and just sell people tap water. No one tests this stuff, and people who would don't think it works anyway.

[Junghalli]

At that point, I might question whether they actually bother with the 'purification' and just sell people tap water. No one tests this stuff, and people who would don't think it works anyway.

Not to mention there's no scientific way you could test a solution that's so dilute it statistically won't have a single molecule of the actual "active ingredient" in it, aside from watching it being made. The "genuine" medicine will still probably be nothing but regular water.