Bad news reactions: Sad sack to rock star

[Lagmonster]

We get a lot of doom-n-gloom shit around here. We all know that.

But here's my pondering: I see people who believe the end is nigh acting like defeatists - generally mopy about the world, reporting on the latest prediction or trend which validates their fears, going chicken little at every step towards their anticipated death blow and coming across as rather self-loathing types in the process.

On the other hand, I see people who KNOW their end is nigh act like rock stars - people who are terminally ill or absolutely convinced of catastrophe, as much as they are able to, will try to live it up and although resigned, don't tend to sit around counting the hours because they have shit to DO before the end.

Leaving aside the multiple likely exceptions, am I getting my general vibes of human psychology all screwed up, or is there some truth at work to the idea that those who merely predict doom are miserable dishrags, whereas those who are factually aware of imminent doom are much more calm and comfortable?

[Kuroji]

Presumably, from what I've seen in people who know that they've actually got proof of something that's going to kill them and they have a pretty secure timeframe (at least as far as a terminal disease), they either go 'okay, this is what it is and I'm going to enjoy what I've got left, let's go to the beach' or 'fuck you, I see what the tests say and I'm not going to let it end this way, time to prove everyone wrong'.

Basically it comes down to the good ol' five stages of grief. The gloom-and-doom assholes are stuck in depression (boo hoo, it's coming and nobody can stop it). The problem is that people can get worked up over some truly stupid shit and blow things way out of proportion... but no, I don't think you're off -- if you're going to spend your time moping about, wailing and gnashing your teeth because of the meteor coming, you're in the fourth stage. On the other hand, there will be people who have seen the exact same things, come to the exact same conclusion, and prepare for the eventuality that it comes to pass (even if their evidence is faulty and it does not come to pass), rather than flailing about and screaming 'we're all gonna die!'.

[StarshipTitanic]

Leaving aside the multiple likely exceptions, am I getting my general vibes of human psychology all screwed up, or is there some truth at work to the idea that those who merely predict doom are miserable dishrags, whereas those who are factually aware of imminent doom are much more calm and comfortable?

You make the difference to be between predicting or knowing with some certainty one's doom but you should also note whether or not the doom is very personal or generalized. I think it's harder to feel certain about a worst case scenario with no precedent like the collapse of global civilization than to accept inoperable cancer.

I agree with you about how the collapse of the West Chicken Littles look for validation in reports and blogs but it's because they possibly have a hard time believing in the end themselves.

[Oskuro]

My personal anecdote is that whenever I'm facing an exam, if I am absolutely certain I will fail, I won't get stressed at all. Maybe sad, depressed or angry at myself, but I will calmly attend the exam, try to complete it and not worry much.

If there is a chance I might fail, yet there's also a chance I might pass, it's a different thing altogether, I try to cram up as much study time before the exam as I can, I keep reviewing the parts I have more trouble with, I keep running numbers in my head as to how many questions I can miss before I fail, and I'm generally much more stressed.

I'd say that, as pattern recognition machines, we react more adversely to the unknown.

[Serafina]

I guess the difference is simple:

People who have delusions about the end of the world etc. WANT the world to end. Propably because their life sucks in one way or another. They want it to happen (to solve their problems, not always including an afterlife). Essentially, it's an escape fantasy - and while you might be happy when thinking about the fantasy, you aren't when you are not.
Hence, they act so depressed - because they are. And their escape fantasy prevents them from dealing with it.

People who KNOW that their end is near can often manage the resulting emotions - which finally leads to acceptance, and thus the possibility to live a (short) happy life despite the problems.

So actually, we are talking about two different things here. The doomsayers are depressed and can't deal with it, while the doomed can and do deal with it. Different causes, different outcomes.

[Big Phil]

Predictors of doom often/usually have their entire self-worth tied up in the accuracy of those predictions. They can't very well go around predicting the end of the world and at the same time act all happy go lucky, now can they?

People who know they're going to die/the end of the world is coming don't have their self-worth tied up in the prediction. It's something that is going to happen; they've accepted they can't do anything about it; so they enjoy what little time they have left.

[Sarevok]

I think its simpler than that. People who lead boring everyday lives without ever facing a real crisis try to find a little excitement in post apocalyptic fantasies.

[Junghalli]

I guess the difference is simple:

People who have delusions about the end of the world etc. WANT the world to end. Propably because their life sucks in one way or another. They want it to happen (to solve their problems, not always including an afterlife). Essentially, it's an escape fantasy - and while you might be happy when thinking about the fantasy, you aren't when you are not.

Yeah, it's my suspicion and experience that a lot of the people who go on about how the world/humanity/civilization/the West/our present way of life/whatever is doomed also tend to view it as unworthy of survival.

[J]

The key I think is what a person believes he or she can do about the situation at hand. I guess I would fit the OP's decription of a "doomer" since I'm convinced we have a whole bunch of very ugly problems to deal and our societies & leaders aren't up to the challenge, and are in many cases making the problems worse. The typical mopey depressed doomer knows this and accepts this, adopting the mindset that there's nothing he can do to make difference since prior efforts to do so (if any) came up empty. This eventually leads down a dark road which one doesn't want to travel.

Personally, I accept that I cannot change the big picture, I am but one person and whatever happens, happens. However I can and do make a difference on a smaller scale, I can give people a nuge here & there to point them in the right direction, my job allows me a small voice in public policies and sometimes I can network with people who can help me with what I think needs to be done. I've found there's a surprising number of people such as myself, though we believe that things are likely FUBAR we're actually quite cheerful & happy since we're taking action to do some good even if it's on a fairly small scale. Life's too short to be sitting around in misery, take action, make a difference, it feels good.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I've found there's a surprising number of people such as myself, though we believe that things are likely FUBAR we're actually quite cheerful & happy since we're taking action to do some good even if it's on a fairly small scale. Life's too short to be sitting around in misery, take action, make a difference, it feels good.

That's the spirit! Even if it turns out as futile as hitting a combat model replicant with a piece of steel pipe

On a more serious note, there was an interesting article by André Angelantoni concerning this matter on The Oil Drum. I will not quote the whole article here, but just some excerpts:

Gloomy futures are often conjured up by your brain without your permission or guidance. Your brain is simply an associative machine that took in the idea of oil depletion, recalled images from its past (perhaps including a Mad Max movie), and plopped the result in your mental lap. Although it may have you prepare in ways you wouldn’t normally, this gloomy future can also paralyze you and turn you into a morose individual unable to experience the joy there is and will always be available in life.

If you are unsatisfied with the future your brain invented for you, you will have to create one yourself.

From later on:

You are undoubtedly playing all sorts of roles right now, and there are thousands of roles you can play in post-peak oil world. Your job is to create a new, fulfilling role for yourself. Here are a few basic roles, starting with some roles you may want to avoid.

• The Victim. To play this role, you should complain that the world isn’t fair and that there isn’t enough time to prepare. Talk only about things that we will lose or how other people or groups are better off than you. Unfortunately, this role isn’t very attractive and people will try to avoid you — but it is a valid role. I include it so that you can recognize when you are playing the victim, discard it, and choose a different role.
• The Drama Queen. Be a Drama Queen by saying, “We are so screwed” or similar things after describing how you see the future playing out. This can be a fun role to play, especially when describing a Mad Max scenario in great detail. Most people will eventually want you to talk about how they can actually prepare for the future. The Drama Queen role can often be matched up with the Victim role to great effect, but people tire of it quickly.
• The Bystander. To do a good job with this role, say “what will happen will happen” whenever you hear about something terrible happening, preferably in Spanish. This is actually a good role to keep handy because often events will truly be out of your control, and there is no need to get your knickers in a knot over them.
• The Leader. With this role, you see peak oil as an opportunity to make a difference in your community and the world. You can be a leader in thousands of ways, from starting a community garden to inviting friends over to teach them a useful skill you know. The only requirement to be a leader is that you create a future that wasn’t going to happen anyway. You don't need to know how to speak in front of crowds and you don't need a commanding presence. All you need is the commitment to create a future that wasn't going to happen unless you became involved.

I think he is pretty much spot on about the possible approaches one can take. Of course there are still others, like complete denial, which is probably the most common one among general population, or the unfounded "technology will solve our problems" optimism somewhat common on this forum, but his point was to address the possible approaches after you have fully recognized the reality of resource depletion and the inability of technology alone to solve the problem if nothing else changes. His positive attitude is all the more remarkable concerning that his actual expectations are quite "doomerish", in other words he believes that the will inevitably be some kind of civilizational collapse.

[Ariphaos]

I guess the difference is simple:

People who have delusions about the end of the world etc. WANT the world to end. Propably because their life sucks in one way or another. They want it to happen (to solve their problems, not always including an afterlife). Essentially, it's an escape fantasy - and while you might be happy when thinking about the fantasy, you aren't when you are not.
Hence, they act so depressed - because they are. And their escape fantasy prevents them from dealing with it.

...

Or rather, it gives them an excuse. They proclaim the world's doom over and over to convince them that their inaction is okay and acceptable, rather than cowardice. The problem is so huge and seemingly intractable that being unable to see the forest for the trees may be understandable, but it doesn't mean I respect that view.

People are not in denial about what is going on - not in the slightest. People are angry. Some people misdirect their anger. Some are confused. Some aren't sure who to trust, others cling to the first person who tells them to trust them. I'd have to ask a lot of people "Is there anything wrong with the world?" before I got a 'no' answer.

The lack of leadership is palpable, as is the demand for it.