The US is Apparently Badly Educated in the Sciences

[Chirios]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, I thought it would be appropriate

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/20 ... csp=34news

Report: Poor science education impairs U.S. economy
Updated 3d 4h ago | Comments 164 | Recommend 29 E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |

Enlarge By Seth Perlman, AP

University of Illinois senior Tristesse Jones, whose major is crop sciences with a concentration in biological sciences and a minor in chemistry, prepares soybean DNA samples at the University of Illinois.
Share
Yahoo! Buzz
Add to Mixx
Facebook
Twitter
More
Subscribe
myYahoo
iGoogle
More
By Dan Vergano, USA TODAY
Stagnant scientific education imperils U.S. economic leadership, says a report by leading business and science figures.
Released Thursday at a congressional briefing attended by senators and congressmen of both parties, the report updates a 2005 science education report that led to moves to double federal research funding.

Nevertheless, the "Rising Above the Gathering Storm" review finds little improvement in U.S. elementary and secondary technical education since then.

"Our nation's outlook has worsened," concludes the report panel headed by former Lockheed Martin chief Norman Augustine. The report "paints a daunting outlook for America if it were to continue on the perilous path it has been following":

•U.S. mathematics and science K-12 education ranks 48th worldwide.

•49% of U.S. adults don't know how long it takes for the Earth to circle the sun.

•China has replaced the United States as the world's top high-technology exporter.

Although U.S. school achievement scores have stagnated, harming the economy as employers look elsewhere for competent workers, the report says that other nations have made gains.

If U.S. students matched Finland's, for example, analysis suggests the U.S. economy would grow 9%-16%.

"The real point is that we have to have a well-educated workforce to create opportunities for young people," says Charles Vest, head of the National Academy of Engineering, a report sponsor. "Otherwise, we don't have a chance."

"The current economic crisis makes the link between education and employment very clear," says Steven Newton of the National Center for Science Education in Oakland.

In 2007, however, an analysis led by B. Lindsay Lowell of Georgetown University found U.S. science education worries overstated. It saw three times more science and engineering college graduates than job openings each year. Other reports have found top science and engineering students migrating to better-paying jobs in finance, law and medicine, since the 1990s.

As someone who has lived in England, and who is a citizen of Botswana, I can sympathise.

[Chaotic Neutral]

People being uneducated dumbfucks is bad for the economy, who knew?

[Broomstick]

Yeah, but even educated people go wanting work these days in the US - lots of kids in or just out of college wonder why the hell they bothered. It's not just a matter of educating people, they have to be able to USE that education. PhD's driving taxis is a problem.

[someone_else]

Would have been more interesting an article that tries to explain why that happens.
or how to stop it from happening

PhD's driving taxis is a problem.

That's a common problem out of US too (like where I live for example).

[ArmorPierce]

I was talking to a temp recruiter secretary and she was telling me how people with masters degrees were putting down asking wage of $10 an hour.

[General Zod]

I was talking to a temp recruiter secretary and she was telling me how people with masters degrees were putting down asking wage of $10 an hour.

Did she actually say what the degrees were in? If it's something oversaturated like law, business or liberal arts, or a degree for an outdated skillset that they haven't kept up with for ten years I can't say I'm shocked.

[Brain_Caster]

•49% of U.S. adults don't know how long it takes for the Earth to circle the sun.

•China has replaced the United States as the world's top high-technology exporter.

If U.S. students matched Finland's, for example, analysis suggests the U.S. economy would grow 9%-16%.

Am I the only one here who is, shall we say, slightly sceptical of those claims, particularly the three I quoted above? The one about people not knowing how long it takes for the Earth to circle the sun I could believe, especially if the question is asked with surprise on its side to passersbys in a hurry who probably don't even take the time to think about it. But the other two? Seems quite unlikely.

I think I'll have to call bullshit on this article.

[Shaun]

Yeah, but even educated people go wanting work these days in the US - lots of kids in or just out of college wonder why the hell they bothered. It's not just a matter of educating people, they have to be able to USE that education. PhD's driving taxis is a problem.

A large problem is that business are reluctant to hire new talent, instead relying on snatching existing talent from other companies. Obviously, they're fucked once the existing talent has retired, and that's what's happened in the North Sea oil and gas industry. This harms current and recent graduates who simply cannot get the required experience to get their foot on the ladder, and it harms said businesses later on down the line.

[Broomstick]

Yes, the modern corporate short-sighted approach - steal talent, don't bother training it. I'm old enough to remember when a LOT of companies and industries hired new talent and expected to train them in house, and maintained in-house training programs. All discarded now, for being "inefficient".

[Professor Dire]

RE: The story quoted in the initial post.

America isn't doing too hot in studying theology either:
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 2&t=145123

[Terralthra]

•49% of U.S. adults don't know how long it takes for the Earth to circle the sun.

•China has replaced the United States as the world's top high-technology exporter.

If U.S. students matched Finland's, for example, analysis suggests the U.S. economy would grow 9%-16%.

Am I the only one here who is, shall we say, slightly sceptical of those claims, particularly the three I quoted above? The one about people not knowing how long it takes for the Earth to circle the sun I could believe, especially if the question is asked with surprise on its side to passersbys in a hurry who probably don't even take the time to think about it. But the other two? Seems quite unlikely.

I think I'll have to call bullshit on this article.

You can do just a little bit of digging through the sources for the article and find their exact methodology. Interviews were conducted with over 1500 people in various metropolitan and non-urban areas, and it was not "in passing."

[Brain_Caster]

You can do just a little bit of digging through the sources for the article and find their exact methodology. Interviews were conducted with over 1500 people in various metropolitan and non-urban areas, and it was not "in passing."

I found the original source for the "China exports the most high-tech" claim, and it appears to be genuine. Consider me surprised.

What's more, those numbers are from 2006. Who knows what things look like by now.

Though it also says that:

"This trade includes re-exported imports. That means some countries show large figures due to that a large number of products pass through the country and is counted as both imports and exports."

So now we'd have to know how much of that high-tech export is due to local production, and how much is trade flowing through the country, or maybe stuff being assembled there from imported components before the whole thing is exported again. Regardless, the claim in general appears to be true. I withdraw my earlier statement.

[General Zod]

You can do just a little bit of digging through the sources for the article and find their exact methodology. Interviews were conducted with over 1500 people in various metropolitan and non-urban areas, and it was not "in passing."

I found the original source for the "China exports the most high-tech" claim, and it appears to be genuine. Consider me surprised.

What's more, those numbers are from 2006. Who knows what things look like by now.

Though it also says that:

"This trade includes re-exported imports. That means some countries show large figures due to that a large number of products pass through the country and is counted as both imports and exports."

So now we'd have to know how much of that high-tech export is due to local production, and how much is trade flowing through the country, or maybe stuff being assembled there from imported components before the whole thing is exported again. Regardless, the claim in general appears to be true. I withdraw my earlier statement.

It's not much of a surprise at all really. Just crack open a Dell or an iPhone and count how many parts are made in China. Foxxconn is one of China's biggest manufacturers and they supply parts to Dell, Sony, Nintendo, Apple, Sprint, etc. It's almost impossible to get an electronic device that's entirely made in the US anymore.

[Maj]

Stats on China used to surprise me until my husband put things into perspective: China has a population of more than one billion people. The entire population of the US - children, retirees, unemployed, and normal people with jobs - is roughly only 30% of their population. On top of that, doing business is quite frequently cheaper in China.

The fact that it took them so long to catch up to us is the only thing that really surprises me, now.

[Sela]

I don't have any evidence to back this up - but it makes sense to me; and so I'd be very grateful if there were any people here with a better understanding of workforce-composition, anthropology, or history who saw I'm wrong and would set me right.

That said, here goes:

The US education system still seems to be stuck in a model that would be ideal for the Industrial-revolution era but not so much for the age-of-modern-science era. It aims to produce a small body of very well educated people (~20%, of which <1% become the elites movers&thinkers), and a large mass of uneducated/far less educated people to do their bidding.

The mass is kept pacified with daytime TV, Glenn Beck/Keith Olbermann, MTV, Fashion, and the wonderful wonderful internets. The next tier up of 20% is left feeling useful by their ability to lobby ineffectively, vote for president (but not cabinet), and watch Keith Olbermann/O'Reilly to feel 'politically active' while becoming the upper-tier professionals that keep our country going. Only the top 1% research our new drugs, new technologies, and new weapons of war.

As such, I would be surprised if the low AVERAGE scientific understanding was a truly concerning factor. . . though obviously it is annoying/embarassing to the average US citizen and especially to idealists like me.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Am I the only one here who is, shall we say, slightly sceptical of those claims, particularly the three I quoted above? The one about people not knowing how long it takes for the Earth to circle the sun I could believe, especially if the question is asked with surprise on its side to passersbys in a hurry who probably don't even take the time to think about it. But the other two? Seems quite unlikely.

I think I'll have to call bullshit on this article.

1st claim: Have you ever had to teach a post-high-school student? I do. They are as dumb as a b box of rocks. They do not know what upper case Sigma is in mathematics, and are just literate enough to ask questions on lab procedures that can easily be answered through a basic grasp of the english language. Our school systems churns out people who think that the earth is younger than recorded human history. Do you really expect them to know that the earth revolves around the sun? Shit, I am surprised that more of them do not think the earth is flat.

2nd claim: Have you gone into a Bestbuy or Fry's Electronics lately? Take a look at the manufacturing information for just about everything in the store

3rd claim: Better education=better economy. Very simple.

[Maj]

I don't have any evidence to back this up - but it makes sense to me; and so I'd be very grateful if there were any people here with a better understanding of workforce-composition, anthropology, or history who saw I'm wrong and would set me right.

...

As such, I would be surprised if the low AVERAGE scientific understanding was a truly concerning factor. . . though obviously it is annoying/embarassing to the average US citizen and especially to idealists like me.

I don't remember where I got this article - it may have actually been here, but I'm not sure. Regardless, I think that it has a lot to say about how we teach at school.

The Creativity Crisis {Work Safe, Newsweek, Really Long}

Part of the article I think is particularly apt here:

“Creativity can be taught,” says James C. Kaufman, professor at California State University, San Bernardino... Consider the National Inventors Hall of Fame School, a new public middle school in Akron, Ohio. Mindful of Ohio’s curriculum requirements, the school’s teachers came up with a project for the fifth graders: figure out how to reduce the noise in the library. Its windows faced a public space and, even when closed, let through too much noise. The students had four weeks to design proposals.

Working in small teams, the fifth graders first engaged in what creativity theorist Donald Treffinger describes as fact-finding. How does sound travel through materials? What materials reduce noise the most? Then, problem-finding—anticipating all potential pitfalls so their designs are more likely to work. Next, idea-finding: generate as many ideas as possible. Drapes, plants, or large kites hung from the ceiling would all baffle sound. Or, instead of reducing the sound, maybe mask it by playing the sound of a gentle waterfall? A proposal for double-paned glass evolved into an idea to fill the space between panes with water. Next, solution-finding: which ideas were the most effective, cheapest, and aesthetically pleasing? Fiberglass absorbed sound the best but wouldn’t be safe. Would an aquarium with fish be easier than water-filled panes?

Then teams developed a plan of action. They built scale models and chose fabric samples. They realized they’d need to persuade a janitor to care for the plants and fish during vacation. Teams persuaded others to support them—sometimes so well, teams decided to combine projects. Finally, they presented designs to teachers, parents, and Jim West, inventor of the electric microphone.

Along the way, kids demonstrated the very definition of creativity: alternating between divergent and convergent thinking, they arrived at original and useful ideas. And they’d unwittingly mastered Ohio’s required fifth-grade curriculum—from understanding sound waves to per-unit cost calculations to the art of persuasive writing. “You never see our kids saying, ‘I’ll never use this so I don’t need to learn it,’ ” says school administrator Maryann Wolowiec. “Instead, kids ask, ‘Do we have to leave school now?’ ” Two weeks ago, when the school received its results on the state’s achievement test, principal Traci Buckner was moved to tears. The raw scores indicate that, in its first year, the school has already become one of the top three schools in Akron, despite having open enrollment by lottery and 42 percent of its students living in poverty.

When I was in school, science and math were pretty much taught in a vacuum. You take your math class, and it's not really applicable to any other class you take (or real life, for that matter). You take your science class and once the bell rings, you don't have to think about it again until tomorrow. This is a problem because it creates an out-of-sight scenario where students don't see the ways that these subjects affect their daily lives, and thus there's no reason to remember it. And that's presuming they're interested enough to take the class in the first place.

Given my younger sister's experience in middle school with her science teacher - who asked me to step in and help because his credentials were in education and not science - I understand why a lot of kids aren't interested in continuing to take math and science past the minimum requirements... The teachers don't know the subject well enough to impart that sense of wonder and excitement at discovering something cool and new about the way the world works. They don't give their students the tools to engage themselves in discovery.