What is racism?

[AniThyng]

So, I've been trying to figure this out following the conclusion of the Malaysian elections. What truly is racism and classism?

The cliff notes version of race politics in malaysia is between the Chinese minority and the Malay Muslim majority. But that is not just the case. There is a multitude of ways of breaking it down. I can xplain further if there are specific questions.

But I've been thinking about my own positions and wondering if I am as non racist as I like to think I am. And at the same time, what it means to be racist, or not. Or classist. Or religionist.

See, a central thesis that some have settled on is that a majority of Malaysian Chinese voted for the opposition. In some views, this is the only thing they had in common - be they suburban chinese, urban middle class, urban poor, small town people, English educated, Chinese educated, Buddhist, Christian, all swung to the opposition. In some narratives, this collectively brands the chinese, all Chinese, as ungrateful, greedy racists, who put race before anything else.

Another view posits Christian Anglophile Chinese as being the force that has manipulated the docile, peaceful Buddhists into going along with their evangelical plot to christianize maaysia.

For a while, I took offense to this - I am no Christian! But then I thought about it. I am certainly more westernized then many, and I spent my time on western atheist boards like this one. But then I started thinking further - I'd taken some measure of smugness in being above racism - I have Malay friends after all!. But then I started thinking about this notion that I have Malay friends. Then it becomes a class issue - I have Malay friends who are themselves more liberal than the norm. Am I not be then being selectively racist?

It got me thinking. There is racism of the variety that simply disregards the other in any form. Then there this smug kind of racism that accepts the other...if he other becomes like me.

Does the make sense? What does it truly mean to be colorblind in a world like mine? I can say I only judge all based purely on individual merit, but preconceptions and stereotypes abound.

Even for myself , many assume I am Christian because I fit the profile - English speaking, comes from a middle class suburb, westernized outlook. In a way, the question of if I am Christian or not is actually an irrelevancy. It's that I am a smug, classist person to deigns to think he is above race when he is as mired in it as anyone.

Does anyone else feel this way or have a similar situation?

[energiewende]

I think a reasonable definition of racism is: the belief that people should be accorded a lesser status in law because of an inherited trait.

This has one problematic reductio: people who are born with insufficient mental capacity to manage their own affairs. But I think there is a good argument it is not treating such a person as a "lesser" to appoint a trustworthy guardian of their interests. A slippery slope perhaps, but I think the definition works in the vast majority of cases.

As I understand Malaysian law accords everyone who isn't Malay and a few much smaller supposedly "native" races a lesser status. I don't know if the Chinese opposition parties seek to reverse this process rather than to merely eliminate all racial preferences. If the former, they are racist, if the latter, they are not.

[Metahive]

Racism is discriminating between people based on perceived "racial" traits. It's in fact that simple.

For a while, I took offense to this - I am no Christian! But then I thought about it. I am certainly more westernized then many, and I spent my time on western atheist boards like this one. But then I started thinking further - I'd taken some measure of smugness in being above racism - I have Malay friends after all!. But then I started thinking about this notion that I have Malay friends. Then it becomes a class issue - I have Malay friends who are themselves more liberal than the norm. Am I not be then being selectively racist?

People can be astonishingly racist and yet make special exemptions for members of a race they normally discriminate against if they're personally acquainted with them. They overcome the cognitive dissonance by simply sorting those into a "special" folder within their minds. That's called compartmentalization. So when some white supremacist tries to deflect accusations of racism by pointing at all the black friends he has, he might as well say the truth. It just doesn't matter. Hitler made such a special exemption for the jewish doctor that had cared for his mother and called him an "Edeljude (Noble Jew)".

[energiewende]

Racism is discriminating between people based on perceived "racial" traits. It's in fact that simple.

Isn't that rather circular? What is a "racial" trait? It sounds like the old definition of pornography: I know it when I see it!

Also, discrimination is a very broad term and not necessarily a negative one. Is it discriminatory to choose a black man to play Othello, for instance? Strictly yes but this has a legitimate purpose and isn't seen as trying to diminish anyone. So when and why is discrimination wrong?

It sounds like AnyThyng is saying he thinks he might be a racist because he chooses friends who share his political views and cultural choices. I think that's a long way down a dangerous slippery slope.

[Simon_Jester]

I think a reasonable definition of racism is: the belief that people should be accorded a lesser status in law because of an inherited trait.

What if they believe that this status should be informal, not written into law but just a practical matter of everyone "keeping to their own kind" and some "kinds" being forbidden from doing or saying certain things?

This has one problematic reductio: people who are born with insufficient mental capacity to manage their own affairs. But I think there is a good argument it is not treating such a person as a "lesser" to appoint a trustworthy guardian of their interests. A slippery slope perhaps, but I think the definition works in the vast majority of cases.

Insufficient mental capacity to manage one's own affairs is usually not inherited. Among other things, because a truly mentally damaged person usually has trouble finding a mate.

Now, there are plenty of people who are lazy, stupid, and ignorant, and who have lazy, stupid, ignorant kids. But that's not a genetic problem as such, or can't be proven to be.

Racism is discriminating between people based on perceived "racial" traits. It's in fact that simple.

Isn't that rather circular? What is a "racial" trait? It sounds like the old definition of pornography: I know it when I see it!

There are formal legal definitions of pornography, actually- at least as much as there are of other areas where a "legal test" requires the judge to make a logical judgment call about whether something meets a certain list of criteria.

Perceived "racial" traits are those which are innate and genetic, and which are assumed to originate from just having lived in a certain region of the world where people are like that.

Also, discrimination is a very broad term and not necessarily a negative one. Is it discriminatory to choose a black man to play Othello, for instance? Strictly yes but this has a legitimate purpose and isn't seen as trying to diminish anyone. So when and why is discrimination wrong?

When it hurts somebody in an unjust way.

There are plenty of roles in theater that can be played by white or black actors- arguably there are far more only-white roles than only-black roles. So the opportunity cost to white actors of making Othello black is... really very small.

The cost to blacks of not being able to get loans from banks to buy houses in certain districts because they are informally 'white only' districts... that's a bigger matter.

It sounds like AnyThyng is saying he thinks he might be a racist because he chooses friends who share his political views and cultural choices. I think that's a long way down a dangerous slippery slope.

No, AnyThyng's point is that he starts by thinking:

"Wait, do I believe in 'my kind' as superior to 'their kind?'"

Then he thinks "No, because I have friends who are 'their kind!'"

Then he thinks "Wait, the 'their kind' friends are all suspiciously like me."

At that point he has to ask: is he refusing to accept or understand or tolerate people different from himself?

[ray245]

People can be astonishingly racist and yet make special exemptions for members of a race they normally discriminate against if they're personally acquainted with them. They overcome the cognitive dissonance by simply sorting those into a "special" folder within their minds. That's called compartmentalization. So when some white supremacist tries to deflect accusations of racism by pointing at all the black friends he has, he might as well say the truth. It just doesn't matter. Hitler made such a special exemption for the jewish doctor that had cared for his mother and called him an "Edeljude (Noble Jew)".

Basically anyone who views that a good/nice "insert ethnic group here" is the exception not the norm is a racist.

[AniThyng]

People can be astonishingly racist and yet make special exemptions for members of a race they normally discriminate against if they're personally acquainted with them. They overcome the cognitive dissonance by simply sorting those into a "special" folder within their minds. That's called compartmentalization. So when some white supremacist tries to deflect accusations of racism by pointing at all the black friends he has, he might as well say the truth. It just doesn't matter. Hitler made such a special exemption for the jewish doctor that had cared for his mother and called him an "Edeljude (Noble Jew)".

Basically anyone who views that a good/nice "insert ethnic group here" is the exception not the norm is a racist.

That's really too simple, i think, and the inverse is also true, since one is still making classifications based on race. Such as the "Asian students are better" thing. Is "positive" racism not still racism?

[AniThyng]

I think here we fall into the thorny question too of what is culture and assimilation. The closest analogy might be people who accuse Obama of being "too white" . There exist Malay nationalists (I'm trying very hard to avoid racial descriptors, but I can't avoid it) who say it would be fine if the Chinese just embrace Islam, the Malay language and Malay customs, instead of stubbornly clinging to basically being...well...Chinese. Essentially the Chinese in Malaysia are being accused of refusal to assimilate, we've merely...integrated?

Contrast to the Chinese in Thailand, Indonesia and Philippines. If you can figure out who is Chinese that is. (It's still possible, but it's not as blatantly easy)

[PKRudeBoy]

I don't think it's unreasonable for natives of a country to expect immigrants to assimilate, at least to the degree that they are able to function well in the country outside of their own enclaves. Now, I don't know nearly enough about Malaysian internal affairs to know if they're at that point or not.

Also, I don't think that it's that unusual to associate primarily with people culturally or ideologically similar to yourself, after all, you do have more in common. Put me alone in a room with a political science or law student of any race and I guarantee I'll be more interested even if we disagree then if you stick me with a high school dropout of my own race. And I make no bone whatsoever about the fact that I'm prejudiced against religion, and the more overtly religious a person is the more I count it against them. If people that I like happen to come more from socioeconomic backgrounds similar to mine and that makes me a smug classist bastard then so be it.

[AniThyng]

As I understand Malaysian law accords everyone who isn't Malay and a few much smaller supposedly "native" races a lesser status. I don't know if the Chinese opposition parties seek to reverse this process rather than to merely eliminate all racial preferences. If the former, they are racist, if the latter, they are not.

I think what I'm also wondering if it is also simply racism under a different name if we talk instead in terms of class. Certainly one of the key opposition talking points when trying to appeal to the electorate is by hammering on how Government affirmative action policies have only benefited a select class of Malay elites while doing little for the poorer masses. (No matter how you slice it though, at every social economic class level, the Chinese come out better off. This dramatically undercuts arguments that the "lesser status" greatly harms us, i think...)

[Stark]

I don't think it's unreasonable for natives of a country to expect immigrants to assimilate, at least to the degree that they are able to function well in the country outside of their own enclaves. Now, I don't know nearly enough about Malaysian internal affairs to know if they're at that point or not.

That he just said nationalists want immigrants to adopt the religion, language and culture of the Malay group should be a big hint for you.

That said, the OP is pretty asinine. 'Is "Asian students are better racist"?' is such a head-shaker. Of course it is; and while you might argue that nobody would care because it isn't prejudicing opportunity or freedom (which is the actual problem of racism), it arguably does through second-order cultural impacts on the other groups in the system. For instance, when Australia had an Even More Racist Immigration Policy Than Now only the most wealthy filthy slanties I mean asian people were allowed to emigrate. This attempt to keep out 'undesirables' created the impression among the poor racist white population of Australia that asians (I should say 'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasians') were all wealthy, were buying all the good houses, were uppity and didn't know their place, were starting or running business enterprises, communicated with each other using a bizarre series of clicks and whistles, etc, which made Australians even more racist by making this 'group' appear to be hostile, homogenous, and dangerously successful. This cycle largely continues to this day.

The core of a generalisation like 'asians are better at school' is the idea that 'asian' is a homogenous group, which is ... racist. Even worse, it is generally used to implicitly devalue the REASONS why 'asians' are perceived to be 'better' at school (like doing homework, valuing education, receiving crushing pressure from families to succeed, etc) which are the sort of things that are actually worth talking about when it comes to education.

[energiewende]

As I understand Malaysian law accords everyone who isn't Malay and a few much smaller supposedly "native" races a lesser status. I don't know if the Chinese opposition parties seek to reverse this process rather than to merely eliminate all racial preferences. If the former, they are racist, if the latter, they are not.

I think what I'm also wondering if it is also simply racism under a different name if we talk instead in terms of class. Certainly one of the key opposition talking points when trying to appeal to the electorate is by hammering on how Government affirmative action policies have only benefited a select class of Malay elites while doing little for the poorer masses. (No matter how you slice it though, at every social economic class level, the Chinese come out better off. This dramatically undercuts arguments that the "lesser status" greatly harms us, i think...)

Could similar arguments not be made for racist laws passed against Jews in Europe? Before we get to the bald-faced insanity of Nazi Germany, Jews were often a very wealthy commercial minority in societies where they were legally barred from many professions, from participating in the political and judicial system, etc. but my feeling is that that doesn't make it ok.

Also I would be interested to hear your opinion on intergrationism vs multiculturalism in general.

[AniThyng]

I don't think it's unreasonable for natives of a country to expect immigrants to assimilate, at least to the degree that they are able to function well in the country outside of their own enclaves. Now, I don't know nearly enough about Malaysian internal affairs to know if they're at that point or not.

That he just said nationalists want immigrants to adopt the religion, language and culture of the Malay group should be a big hint for you.

Generally most reasonable people would say it is enough to be able to speak the language and accept the cultural differences. (No walking into a Malay house and expecting to be able to drink and eat pork, say. But then now you have actual issues like is it acceptable that non-halal establishments are allowed at all in areas where non-muslims are not a significant plurality of the population). It's also different in that for all intents and purposes every Chinese Malaysian under the age of ~55 was born in Malaysia, and most of the generation immediately preceeding that was likely born in or grew up in Malaya. We are not talking about intergrating fresh of the boat immigrants from China at this point.

That said, the OP is pretty asinine. 'Is "Asian students are better racist"?' is such a head-shaker. .

I think that was me flippantly replying to Ray's statement on what racism is and not the point of my OP, but ok.

The core of a generalisation like 'asians are better at school' is the idea that 'asian' is a homogenous group, which is ... racist. Even worse, it is generally used to implicitly devalue the REASONS why 'asians' are perceived to be 'better' at school (like doing homework, valuing education, receiving crushing pressure from families to succeed, etc) which are the sort of things that are actually worth talking about when it comes to education.

Certainly the malaysian chinese are not a homogenous group anymore than malays are a homogenous group, but like I mentioned, depending on the granularity, some of it is hair splitting, and some isn't.

[AniThyng]

Could similar arguments not be made for racist laws passed against Jews in Europe? Before we get to the bald-faced insanity of Nazi Germany, Jews were often a very wealthy commercial minority in societies where they were legally barred from many professions, from participating in the political and judicial system, etc. but my feeling is that that doesn't make it ok.

Also I would be interested to hear your opinion on intergrationism vs multiculturalism in general.

Generally speaking I think some parties overstate the case - except for the position of Prime Minister (and state chief ministers) and obvious things like State Mufti, there are no other positions that cannot be taken up by non-muslims/non-malays. In some cases it is a self-perpetrating cycle - chinese perceive they cannot advance in the civil service and therefore stop joining (in any case, the private sector is far more lucrative). Even so it's pretty obvious that chinese will only join sectors of the civil service that tend to have significant private sector possibilities later on - medicine, the bar, teaching etc, and you will not have to look very hard to find stories from Malays of racist chinese bosses in the private sector.

One the second topic - well, for me personally we should just meet somewhere in the middle and focus on things we have in common and agree to disagree on things like religion, but this is not easy. The problem with Malaysia and comparisions to say, Australia and the US is that AFAIK in Australia, after a couple of generations ABC's would have adopted a significant amount of the local cultural norms, while in Malaysia, polorization in some cases has actually managed to INCREASE with the succeeding generation due to the societal issues we have.

I'll come back to this later, need to do other things...

[Stark]

It's almost like racism and discrimination feed into a cycle of racism and discrimination. Where have I heard that before? :V

Aside from stupid bullshit like religion, what practical differences are there between the communities within Malaysia on a personal level? A brief bit of research suggests Malaysian national policy would lead to separate communities for legal reasons (and frankly the degree of discrimination in law staggers me). Was this system put in place by people who honestly didn't expect this outcome?

[AniThyng]

Aside from stupid bullshit like religion, what practical differences are there between the communities within Malaysia on a personal level? A brief bit of research suggests Malaysian national policy would lead to separate communities for legal reasons (and frankly the degree of discrimination in law staggers me). Was this system put in place by people who honestly didn't expect this outcome?

I think the ideal was everyone knew their place and no one rocked the boat. Obviously that was not going to last very long... The system might have been put in place by people who figured they could keep a lid on things using the threat of breakdown in social order indefinitely.

But if you take religion out of the picture(implausible - you cannot discuss race relations in Malaysia without addressing Islam) then you I think end up with social economics, language and exposure to other communities. Other differences are trivial or not worth fighting over.

Language and education policy has been a major issue. I personally feel that the abolishment of english medium schools and the subsequent polarization between chinese and malay schools has contributed greatly to the breakdown of mutual understanding - now of course in chinese schools students are expected to learn english and malay, while malay schools teach english, it still doesn't take much genius to see that the seperation at an early stage is detrimental to mutual understanding. Still, at a personal level I think there aren't really major problems, partly too due to this compartmentalization metahive mentioned - its at the aggregate society level where you see the cracks, which some places cracking more than others.

[Stark]

When I came to this thread I knew almost nothing about Malaysia that wasn't informed by Australian racism, and I'm still very poorly informed, but it looks like the system would inevitably lead to the result you see. A system that fucks on non-right people and then complains those people don't change to suit the right people is just sad. In particular I read about those educational distinctions you mention, and this is absolutely predictable in the outcome. Did politicians of the time do this because they thought it would weaken/reduce/crush the chinese and indian minorities?

I'm interested in other examples of countries with a 'preference' toward one ethnic group or language or religion that nevertheless hosts many diverse groups. I understand Hong Kong is like this, where large emigrant and worker communities and generations of different groups exist in a framework where the authorities are trying to enforce things like language. Do you know enough about similar places to comment?

I don't mean to remove Islam because I think it isn't relevant, but because I don't think I'm mentally equipped to talk sensibly about a country that enforces religion in that way. It's a me problem.

[AniThyng]

When I came to this thread I knew almost nothing about Malaysia that wasn't informed by Australian racism, and I'm still very poorly informed, but it looks like the system would inevitably lead to the result you see. A system that fucks on non-right people and then complains those people don't change to suit the right people is just sad. In particular I read about those educational distinctions you mention, and this is absolutely predictable in the outcome. Did politicians of the time do this because they thought it would weaken/reduce/crush the chinese and indian minorities?

Careful what one wishes for presumably. The original situation was a compromise given that the chinese community already had a substantial vested interest in mother tongue education. The government english primary schools that were later all converted to malay medium primary schools formed the middle ground - a middle ground that slowly died out as more and more chinese parents opted to send their children to chinese primary schools (or in some cases, private schools that use english as the primary medium) rather than to the malay schools. I am simplifying a little, as the vast majority of secondary schools are malay medium and the chinese primary schools do feed into those together with the malay schools in the same area.

No party that courts chinese votes, be they in the opposition or government coalition will dare suggest the abolition of chinese medium schools today. The best compromise today I can think of is the so called "vision schools" where a chinese and malay medium school share common facilities like the canteens, school field etc.

Entire books can be written on this now that I try to cliff notes it :\

One thing that does stand out to me though is that it clearly shows how both sides have the same kinds of fear - the chinese do not want to give up their mother tongue or adopt Islam and Islamic trappings, nor do malays want to risk any further westernization and liberalization* of values than has already happened.

Urban dwellers of my ilk minimize and paper over things by virtue of being resident in a cosmopolitan city, I suppose. And also by the implicit assumption that it is the Malays who need to come out and meet the chinese halfway rather than the other way around - it was this line of thought that made me start thinking about this whole subject.

*a cursory examination of the contemporary cultures of any random modern east asian country will easily show why.

A somewhat sad example is how a former ruling party politician who defected to the oppositon Islamic party lamented that there are still malay schoolgirls that wear skirts. (Students have a choice of either a pinafore (just below the knee) + blouse or a .."baju kurung", a sort of loose long blouse+ a long skirt + headscraf if muslim.) Many non-muslims opted to wear the baju kurung without headscraf anyway because it was comfortably anyway, but clearly this is not the same as being forced to do so for Islam's sake.

I'm interested in other examples of countries with a 'preference' toward one ethnic group or language or religion that nevertheless hosts many diverse groups. I understand Hong Kong is like this, where large emigrant and worker communities and generations of different groups exist in a framework where the authorities are trying to enforce things like language. Do you know enough about similar places to comment?

I don't mean to remove Islam because I think it isn't relevant, but because I don't think I'm mentally equipped to talk sensibly about a country that enforces religion in that way. It's a me problem.

A good contrast are our neighbours Indonesia and SIngapore.

Singapore, with a roughly inverse population ratio opted to use English as the national language. There are singaporean members of the board far more qualified to comment, but my understanding of the situation in Singapore for the Malay minority is that generally they have been forced to sink or swim and see themselves as better off then their cousins in Malaysia because they never had the benefits that came with the affirmative action policies and still made do. I note that I am not aware of any great movement of singapore malays to malaysia, while hundreds of thousands of malaysians are PRs or expats in Singapore...

Indonesia opted for a the approach of forcing its chinese population to assimilate by denying them the right to use their language or their names. They stopped short of forcing religion on them though. Given what happened in 1997, I daresay it didn't work very well. (the chinese parties in government have never stopped using indonesia as an example of what will happen if the chinese didn't just accept the status quo)

[Spoonist]

So the short rundown:
Racism is a form of tribalism, that is why it is tied to other forms of tribalism like religion, nationalism, ethnitism, culturalism etc.
Tribalism comes from social conformity, which is softwired into us humans due to us being a pack animal. It is tied with the brain simplifying reality for the consciousness through prejudices, along the lines of things like >some other predators hurt tribal member > another predator hurt tribal member >all other predators are bad >lets kill off all other predators... (even though most predators never was a threat to humans) etc.
This is so much in our wiring that stupid stuff arises, for instance if you have been in conflict with people with a specific name - lets say you were really bullied by someone named Bob, then the mere association that having the same name will have you predisposed against other unrelated persons. If silly things like names which have nothing to do with the person can have that effect, then guess how much obvious visual clues can get stuck as positive/negative prejudices in your mind?

So in a sense every human is racist, its in our genes and heritage, if you are not racist in some form you'd be a deviant human and not neurotypical.
However racism/tribalism/prejudices can be both positive and negative.
The social conformity part is how we form our packs and stay together as functional tribes.

But here comes the next step - with awareness you have the ability to mold your own prejudices - the same way antisemites do with the good jew thing - but consciously. You can rationally adjust your mind so that even though a Bob bullied you, you can see that other Bobs are not the same. This is the expanding empathy thingie of education and communication.
So on population metrics you can see that lower education dictates that there will be more wired tribalism. Football hooligans, skinhead nationalists, fundamentalist religious peopler, etc etc etc.
Its also shown by research that you train your tribalism, so for instance people who are extreme fans of sports teams are more likely to be/become fundies and racists. With the reverse being true as well. If you train yourself to see that even though you like sports team X is your team, sports teams YZetc are also good and the sports as a whole benefit from ernest competition... etc bla bla bla. then you will also train yourself to be less racist and less fundie.

Which brings us to propaganda which is the backside of education. Through propaganda and fearmongering you can encourage tribalism. So you can condition people by the media they watch to become more or become less tribalistic.

[Stark]

I think that's important stuff, especially regarding awareness - racism isn't just bashing coons, its all the background mental processes and conditioned attitudes and behaviours that lead to it. You might frown on some expression of racism but still have your actions and behaviours shaped by attitudes that you are racist, without even knowing. Talking to people like Los and becoming more aware of these issues has helped me realise that while I'm pretty violently against racism, that doesn't mean I'm somehow immune to all the forces you mention.

[AniThyng]

I think that's important stuff, especially regarding awareness - racism isn't just bashing coons, its all the background mental processes and conditioned attitudes and behaviours that lead to it. You might frown on some expression of racism but still have your actions and behaviours shaped by attitudes that you are racist, without even knowing. Talking to people like Los and becoming more aware of these issues has helped me realise that while I'm pretty violently against racism, that doesn't mean I'm somehow immune to all the forces you mention.

True. Today I had an opportunity to shake hands with and briefly chat with both my MP and State Assembly Representative, though it's impossible to have anything said in the couple of minutes I got, I noticed that while the shopping center they had their meet the people session had a fair amount of malays as shoppers, the only people who bothered to greet the elected reps were chinese - I may have to reevaluate the notion that race played no factor in the voting patterns in my middle/upper middle class constituency...and consider that it really might have been divided between racial lines.

(the federal parliament seat was contested between a chinese member of the multiracial People's Justice Party and a member of the government aligned chinese party MCA, while the state seat was contested between the PKR's ally DAP, a nominally multiracial but chinese dominated party and the MCA again. Given that the MCA is perceived by its detractors as subservient to the Malay government and lost badly in nearly every seat they contested including these two, it's possible the only votes they got were from malays who were unwilling to risk the collapse of the current government - this has been the government's line post election, while the opposition has tried to play it as a swing by urban voters of all races. But the make up of urban seats in the country is plurality or majority chinese, and some heavily mixed seats were won by the government, or by the opposition in very narrow margins. )

[PainRack]

When I came to this thread I knew almost nothing about Malaysia that wasn't informed by Australian racism, and I'm still very poorly informed, but it looks like the system would inevitably lead to the result you see. A system that fucks on non-right people and then complains those people don't change to suit the right people is just sad. In particular I read about those educational distinctions you mention, and this is absolutely predictable in the outcome. Did politicians of the time do this because they thought it would weaken/reduce/crush the chinese and indian minorities?

In political language, it was done to elevate the Malay majority to their rightful place.
You have to go back to colonial history for some background.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Union
But the potential citizenship of large numbers of Chinese and Indian immigrants, especially those who held economic power as plantation owners and etc, combined with the reduction in Malay political power under this scheme prompted a backlash that manifested itself as Malay nationalism.

However, Malay nationalism on its own would not have been sufficient to win national elections, as such, UMNO and the ruling coalition was formed along racial political parties, throw in racial riots and......... the result is this.

Its important to note that there wasn't any real overriding arch. The NEP, the schools intergration with the Malay language and the Chinese community response afterwards......

Singapore, with a roughly inverse population ratio opted to use English as the national language. There are singaporean members of the board far more qualified to comment, but my understanding of the situation in Singapore for the Malay minority is that generally they have been forced to sink or swim and see themselves as better off then their cousins in Malaysia because they never had the benefits that came with the affirmative action policies and still made do. I note that I am not aware of any great movement of singapore malays to malaysia, while hundreds of thousands of malaysians are PRs or expats in Singapore...

That's not a fair parsing though. The cultural intergration of Singaporean Chinese with Malayan Chinese and the continued movement has different context than the Malay comunity. Furthermore, its not as if Singaporeans don't have a strong presence in JB.....

[Darth Klingon]

I would define racism simply as treating somebody in some sort of negative way, as well not respecting their human rights, solely based upon somebody's ethnic backgrounds.

[Spoonist]

So to reiterate some of the stuff I mentioned in my post above, here is a podcast interview from last week with Elizabeth Culotta who have done some research into the roots of racism etc.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6 ... /suppl/DC1

If interested in this topic it is definately worth the time.

[AniThyng]

So to reiterate some of the stuff I mentioned in my post above, here is a podcast interview from last week with Elizabeth Culotta who have done some research into the roots of racism etc.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/336/6 ... /suppl/DC1

If interested in this topic it is definately worth the time.

Thanks will check it out

@painrack : well I'm sure there's the sizable Singaporean presence in jb but I mean I've never came across a single Singapore Malay Malaysian pr...

@darth Klingon well that certainly meets the letter of the question...