What books do you pick to rebuild civilization?

[Purple]

For the longer-term stuff, high-school level textbooks on science and medicine would be most useful I think. Definitely nothing religious however. I would also avoid taking any "great works" of literature, so that people would be encouraged to create their own from scratch.

Dunno, useful tool for maintaining social cohesion in whatever apocalyptic or pre-tech era you land in.

At that point why not just start your own religion? I mean, look at it this way. We could make one that is harmless, does not teach things that drive people to violate other peoples basic rights or leads into holy wars and yet still serves to promote social cohesion.

[Scrib]

For the longer-term stuff, high-school level textbooks on science and medicine would be most useful I think. Definitely nothing religious however. I would also avoid taking any "great works" of literature, so that people would be encouraged to create their own from scratch.

Dunno, useful tool for maintaining social cohesion in whatever apocalyptic or pre-tech era you land in.

At that point why not just start your own religion? I mean, look at it this way. We could make one that is harmless, does not teach things that drive people to violate other peoples basic rights or leads into holy wars and yet still serves to promote social cohesion.

I don't know, I'm a lazy bastard (and I'm not sure how detached I can be). There's a ton of New Age-y religions out there that are relatively harmless (though some amount of fucking-people's-shit-up might have to exist, though it won't have to be the stupid variety) that can quickly be taken and repurposed without requiring me to keep track of an entire mythology in a time that may or may not have writing or widespread literacy.

[Zixinus]

Books to bring? A relatively easily-understandable book of Euclid and similar basic math. You are not going to establish modern/useful chemistry before useful architecture, which in return demands appropriate level of math. It does not have to be Euclid's in particular, but something in similar depth and utility. I mention Euclid's because it has been the most successful textbook for centuries, if not for more than a millennium.
A few books giving accurate details regarding animals and plants, particularly usable plants and tamable animals, wouldn't go amiss either.
EDIT: One of the most useful books to bring would be various beginner's crafting books, especially of topics that may not be obvious but tremendously useful. How to make cheese may seem banal, but cheese is one of the products that you can store for the winter. How to preserve meat, how to sew and make clothing, how to make more elaborate tools from simple tools, etc.
Metallurgy and metal-working, especially more basic forms like blacksmithing would be of great use.

The problem with agriculture books is that the animals and plants it mentions may not be available or as useful. There are traditional societies that remained mostly unchanged for more than a thousand years that have agriculture, just not agriculture that is productive enough to give food surplus. Civilizations are built upon food surpluses. Not to mention that agriculture may be impossible because agricultural plants can't adopt to your future situation. Don't just think of radioactivity, but plants not suited to the changed climate/environment (in 20 000 years the plant ecology may shift), plants easily catching plant-diseases that will destroy your crops, etc.

Also, you may run into the problem that modern agricultural practices are just not suited to a future situation. Jared Diamond's "The World until yesterday" describes how traditional-society farmers have relatively small plots all over the tribe's territory. Most of these plots are far away from each other, of different elevation and environment. To a modern person this is insanity, as farmers waste time and effort moving between all these plots rather than focus food production into one large and well-maintained plot.

There is however a very good (hypothetical) reason for them doing this however: with all these different plots, the chances of crop failure are mitigated enough that there is always a minimum amount of successful crops. It would actually be insane for the locals to focus on few large plots, because if there is just one crop failure they will all starve and die.
So there is the factor that your well-intentioned ideas and new knowledge may actually be detrimental for reasons you couldn't foresee or immediately understand.



A book about how religions give practical benefits with certain beliefs might be more useful. Religion is culture and culture is a collection of ideas considered useful and important to its society. You want to avoid making the pitfalls of many common religion-makers (I'm sure there are more than obvious). Don't think "Dummies guide on how to make your own cult!" but accounts and advice for missionaries having to deal with new peoples and older/different religions. Philosophical books may be of some help too, particularly if they can give knowledge/ideas about things like logic or rationality or people in general.

Though, you may be better-off in somewhat delegating the task to a charismatic local. Then again you may run into the problem of said local having ideas that will cause trouble later.

The thing is that religion is just going to be an issue for a hypothetical knowledge-bringer, especially if you are genuinely making changes. Not to mention if things go wrong.

Religion has practical utility in establishing social order and norm. People are less likely to avoid the orders of a god than the orders of a person. People will make their own explanations as to how a stranger is able to teach and show new, strange things that are not always useful. They may think that "person has stolen the secrets from the gods and is deranged because that person fears the wrath of the gods" is more believable than "person is from hundreds of years in the past and brings knowledge from when people ruled the Earth". Or even something more weird, people's idea of what is reasonable and believable can easily shift after an apocalypse or thousands of years into a future.

[slebetman]

Anyone read Lucifer's Hammer and remember the books the character Dan Forrester saved to rebuild civilization? I remember "The Way Things Work" volumes 1 & 2 and 2 complete Encyclopedias. Googling around for a canonical list of books that he saved turned up nothing.

[Simon_Jester]

Well, Dan Forrester is an expy of the real Dan Alderson, who could probably have told you what books he'd save... except that he's twenty-five years dead, God rest his soul.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Given the conditions described I would most likely take one of the Victorian age farming manuals. Seriously, those things held everything from recipes to farming techniques to instructions on how to cross breed plants and what to look for when doing so. And they were written with the average 19th century peasant in mind so they should be easier for the future-primitives to understand.

Do you have any specific examples of this? It sounds really interesting, but a casual Google search hasn't come up with any.

The problem with agriculture books is that the animals and plants it mentions may not be available or as useful. There are traditional societies that remained mostly unchanged for more than a thousand years that have agriculture, just not agriculture that is productive enough to give food surplus. Civilizations are built upon food surpluses. Not to mention that agriculture may be impossible because agricultural plants can't adopt to your future situation. Don't just think of radioactivity, but plants not suited to the changed climate/environment (in 20 000 years the plant ecology may shift), plants easily catching plant-diseases that will destroy your crops, etc.

Theoretically, some botany textbooks as well as agricultural manuals would still be massively useful. Even if we assume that the plant ecology is so radically shifted that none of the extant species are even remotely similar to current ones (which I don't think is a very likely scenario), they will still follow the same basic biological principles. An understanding of those principles, the forces that shape plant physiology, and factors that determine whether a plant is suitable for eating or for cultivation are unlikely to be radically changed, constrained as they are. It would still require a decent amount of trial and error and categorization of new species, but having an existing framework through which to begin understanding botany, biology, and ecology would save a lot of time and trouble. Hell, a few evolutionary biology textbooks and general sources on ecology, human-environment interaction, and related fields would also be massively useful.

[spaceviking]

I think attention should be given to the book physically, not just its content. In this scenario some the information in the book may not be fully usable for centuries, ideally it should be made of materials that are not going to perish if it is kept in less than ideal conditions.

[Malagar]

Given the conditions described I would most likely take one of the Victorian age farming manuals. Seriously, those things held everything from recipes to farming techniques to instructions on how to cross breed plants and what to look for when doing so. And they were written with the average 19th century peasant in mind so they should be easier for the future-primitives to understand.

Do you have any specific examples of this? It sounds really interesting, but a casual Google search hasn't come up with any.

I think he is talking about the Almanacs.
They are the only farming manuals that I am aware of that was used by common peasants in that period.

[Purple]

Given the conditions described I would most likely take one of the Victorian age farming manuals. Seriously, those things held everything from recipes to farming techniques to instructions on how to cross breed plants and what to look for when doing so. And they were written with the average 19th century peasant in mind so they should be easier for the future-primitives to understand.

Do you have any specific examples of this? It sounds really interesting, but a casual Google search hasn't come up with any.

I think he is talking about the Almanacs.
They are the only farming manuals that I am aware of that was used by common peasants in that period.

I think that's what it is. I remember I saw it on one of those history channel shows where a bunch of guys and a woman decided to live out a year like Victorian farmers. And in one episode she showed a book from that era that had all sorts of info ranging from cross breeding to instructions on how to make cider.

[Welf]

For the longer-term stuff, high-school level textbooks on science and medicine would be most useful I think. Definitely nothing religious however. I would also avoid taking any "great works" of literature, so that people would be encouraged to create their own from scratch.

Dunno, useful tool for maintaining social cohesion in whatever apocalyptic or pre-tech era you land in.

At that point why not just start your own religion? I mean, look at it this way. We could make one that is harmless, does not teach things that drive people to violate other peoples basic rights or leads into holy wars and yet still serves to promote social cohesion.

Christianity teaches non-violence, rejects worldly riches, promotes living in communities with socialized ownership and tells its followers to not engage in political upheveal but to wait for a better afterlife. Which of these things are signs of 'conservative' Christians?
I wouldn't worry too much about religion. If you teach evil it will make people evil, but even if you teach to be nice and good people will sooner or later pervert it to serve their interests.

I think attention should be given to the book physically, not just its content. In this scenario some the information in the book may not be fully usable for centuries, ideally it should be made of materials that are not going to perish if it is kept in less than ideal conditions.

That, or include a book on how to make more books.

[Purple]

Christianity teaches non-violence, rejects worldly riches, promotes living in communities with socialized ownership and tells its followers to not engage in political upheveal but to wait for a better afterlife. Which of these things are signs of 'conservative' Christians?
I wouldn't worry too much about religion. If you teach evil it will make people evil, but even if you teach to be nice and good people will sooner or later pervert it to serve their interests.

But it also comes with loads of baggage about the creation of the world, fire and brimstone, god etc. You know, stuff that can get misinterpreted or inspire the wrong kind of emotion. What I am talking about would be different.

[Irbis]

But it also comes with loads of baggage about the creation of the world, fire and brimstone, god etc. You know, stuff that can get misinterpreted or inspire the wrong kind of emotion. What I am talking about would be different.

Welf has a point. Indian subcontinent beliefs lack brimstone, god, teach pacifism and say good behaviour in this life will give you better next one. Yet, behold, we still had religious wars in India, plus development of one of the most vile social systems on Earth, caste system with untouchables.