Walling up Tornado Alley

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Walling up Tornado Alley

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http://www.worldscientific.com/page/pre ... 4-06-23-02

I do like me my silly megaprojects.
n the US, most devastating tornadoes occur in Tornado Alley, which is a strip of land between the Appalachian Mountains and the Rocky Mountains, including most American Midwest states. In 2013, there were 811 confirmed tornadoes in USA, 57 in Europe and 3 in China. Among 811 tornadoes in USA, most of them, especially the most devastating ones, occurred in Tornado Alley. What causes such huge differences?

From the atmospheric circulation point of view, Tornado Alley is inside the "zone of mixing", where the warm and moist air flows northbound and cold air flows southbound. At a certain season, the warm air flow front clashes with the cold air flow front at some place in Tornado Alley. Major tornadoes in Tornado Alley all start with such clashes (Fig.1). Especially as there is no east-west mountain in Tornado Alley to weaken or block the air flows, some clashes are violent, creating vortex turbulence. Such violent vortexes, supercells, are initially in horizontal spinning motion at the lower atmosphere, then tilt as the air turns to rise in the storm's updraft, creating a component of spin around a vertical axis. If the vortex stretching during the vortex tilting intensifies the vertical vorticity enough to create a tornado, the vortex size is getting much smaller as the rotation speed gets much faster. About 30% of supercells lead to tornadoes (Fig.2).

Calculations show that the chance to produce tornadoes depends on the wind speeds during the clashes. For example, if both cold wind and warm wind have speed 30 miles/h (13.3m/s), the chance to develop tornados from the clash is very high. On the other hand, if the both winds have speed below 15 miles/h, there is almost no chance for the clash to develop into tornadoes. Hence reducing the wind speed and eliminating the violent air mass clashes are the key to prevent tornado formation in Tornado Alley. We can learn from the Nature how to do so.

United States and China have similar geographic locations. In particular, the Northern China Plain and the Eastern China Plain is also in the zone of mixing, similar to Tornado Alley. However, very few violent tornadoes occur in this region of China because there are three east-west mountain ranges to protect these plains from tornado threat. The first one is 300km long Yan Mountain which lies at the northern boundary of these plains. The second one is 600km long Nanling (Nan Mountains) at the south boundary of these plains. The third one is 800kom long Jiang-Huai Hills through the middle of the plains. Especially, Jiang-Huai Hills are only about 300 meters above sea level, but effectively eliminate the major tornado threat for the areas. This is evidenced by the following fact.

Jiang-Huai Hills do not extend to Pacific ocean, leaving a small plain area, north part of Jiangsu province, unprotected. This small area, similar to US Tornado Alley, has annually recurring tornado outbreaks. For example, the city Gaoyou in this area has a nickname "Tornado hometown", which has tornado outbreaks once in two years on average. It is thus clear that Jiang-Huai Hills are extremely effectively in eliminating tornadoes formation. Without Jiang-Huai Hills, a quite big area in China would become "Tornado Hometown"

While there are no mountains in Tornado Alley to play the same role as Jiang-Huai Hills etc in China, there are two small mountains, Ozarks Mountains and Shawnee Hills, which significantly reduce tornado risk for some local areas.

The solution: 3 huge walls to act as artificial mountain ranges, slow the winds and stop tornados ever forming in the USA.

How big?

300 meter high and 50 meter wide.

To eliminate the tornado threat for the entire Tornado Alley, we may need to build three great walls. The first one should be close to the northern boundary of the Tornado Alley, maybe in North Dakota. The second one should be in the middle, maybe in the middle of Oklahoma and going to east. The third one can be in the south of Texas and Louisiana.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by NecronLord »

While it's pretty close to science fiction, this seems to be a real proposal, so off to SLAM it goes.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Broomstick »

So... what OTHER environmental effects will this have?

Tornado Alley is also both the corn and wheat belts of North America, the "breadbasket of the world" as it is sometimes called and while there is some hyperbole there it really does supply the majority of the grain for the US (along with some additional fruits and vegetable output) and the surplus goes out into the world markets.

You're talking about a major change to weather patterns to one of the most important agricultural areas in the world. Do we really understand the consequences? Do we want to risk unforeseen consequences?

Yes, tornadoes suck, but so does famine.

Those storms that roar up from the Gulf of Mexico are also why most of the area needs minimal irrigation to grow abundant produce, if we disrupt them will we then ALSO have to make irrigation megaprojects?

We might be better off putting the money towards the tornado defenses we have right now that we know work (weather observation, population alerts, storm shelters) than this megaproject.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Elheru Aran »

If you wanted to affect the weather by building artificial features to channel it, I would go with something you can actually plant upon... artificial hills are nothing new. The scale would be quite another matter, though, and I'm not sure where the heck you would get the raw materials for it.

So it would be far cheaper to simply expand existing defenses, as Broom notes.

Incidentally, barring a serious reversal, we *will* have to irrigate most of the land west of the Mississippi eventually, IIRC, as the aquifers in that area are being severely depleted. I can't remember exactly where I saw it but there was going to be issues with the availability of fresh water within the next 20 years or so. I won't stand on that if queried though because I don't have the time to pull it up...
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

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Elheru Aran wrote:Incidentally, barring a serious reversal, we *will* have to irrigate most of the land west of the Mississippi eventually, IIRC, as the aquifers in that area are being severely depleted. I can't remember exactly where I saw it but there was going to be issues with the availability of fresh water within the next 20 years or so. I won't stand on that if queried though because I don't have the time to pull it up...
The Ogallala aquifer is what you are referring to, and we are already irrigating a lot of land west of the Mississippi.

I've been hearing doom about that aquifer since the 1980's, and I suppose it's a positive it hasn't run dry yet despite the worst predictions, but yes, it is a concern. As another positive, improvements in irrigation technology has made for more efficient utilization of water, and at least some producers in the region are moving to products that don't require irrigation, at least not in normal years.

In my opinion, it would be best to grow agri-products that don't require groundwater in normal years, saving it for use only during drought years. However, in addition to agriculture heavy industry, including the oil industry, also uses the Ogallala and needs to be controlled as well - something difficult in a regulation averse, politically conservative part of the country. For far too long "west of the Mississippi" has had the attitude that resources are there to be extracted and you can always divert water from somewhere else. As just one example, every couple of years some western politician suggests massive diversion of the Great Lakes to the High Plains or even over the Rockies to California and damn the consequences to that region. Thank goodness Canada has claim to half those waters which prevents the Great Lakes being drained.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Similar belts of giant vortex generators might accomplish the same job with considerably less material then actual giant walls. It'd probably all have to be steel though rather then. And you'd some really violent winds around each one at times, but I think that would also happen with the great wall.

As for water, Lyndon LaRouche is still advocating the NAWAPA plan, divert the Yukon river to California, the Great Lakes and Mid West via a system of huge lakes in the northern rocky mountains connected by nuclear or otherwise powered pumping stations. Sure would solve a lot of problems for a trillion dollars.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Wing Commander MAD »

Broomstick wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:Incidentally, barring a serious reversal, we *will* have to irrigate most of the land west of the Mississippi eventually, IIRC, as the aquifers in that area are being severely depleted. I can't remember exactly where I saw it but there was going to be issues with the availability of fresh water within the next 20 years or so. I won't stand on that if queried though because I don't have the time to pull it up...
The Ogallala aquifer is what you are referring to, and we are already irrigating a lot of land west of the Mississippi.

I've been hearing doom about that aquifer since the 1980's, and I suppose it's a positive it hasn't run dry yet despite the worst predictions, but yes, it is a concern. As another positive, improvements in irrigation technology has made for more efficient utilization of water, and at least some producers in the region are moving to products that don't require irrigation, at least not in normal years.

In my opinion, it would be best to grow agri-products that don't require groundwater in normal years, saving it for use only during drought years. However, in addition to agriculture heavy industry, including the oil industry, also uses the Ogallala and needs to be controlled as well - something difficult in a regulation averse, politically conservative part of the country. For far too long "west of the Mississippi" has had the attitude that resources are there to be extracted and you can always divert water from somewhere else. As just one example, every couple of years some western politician suggests massive diversion of the Great Lakes to the High Plains or even over the Rockies to California and damn the consequences to that region. Thank goodness Canada has claim to half those waters which prevents the Great Lakes being drained.
Even if the U.S. had complete control of the Great Lakes it still wouldn't happen, barring something catastrophic happening that would be likely to tear the country apart anyways. The Great Lakes states already put up a huge fight when the idea of of diverting water from the Great Lakes region, let alone draining them, gets any even half serious consideration. The only way would be via some serious use of federal power, something that fortunately isn't likely given the current and foreseeable conservative hatred for the federal government when it comes to domestic affairs. Maybe, you'd be able to do that without a huge exercise of federal power if every one of the states in question had assholes like Corbett and his flunkies in the PA legislature in charge in all the relevant states, maybe. Fortunately, that's about as likely as the current GOP putting up a nonwhite, nonChristian (we'll even count Catholics as Christians for these puposes) candidate.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

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Elheru Aran wrote: Incidentally, barring a serious reversal, we *will* have to irrigate most of the land west of the Mississippi eventually, IIRC, as the aquifers in that area are being severely depleted. I can't remember exactly where I saw it but there was going to be issues with the availability of fresh water within the next 20 years or so. I won't stand on that if queried though because I don't have the time to pull it up...
I'm wondering how that affects Iowa since it is between the Missouri and the Mississippi.

I mostly remember seeing irrigation in fields in states West of the Missouri but I could be misremembering the western part of Iowa.

Anyway, in regards to the topic. Wouldn't it make more sense to build more tornado resistant buildings instead of risking fucking up weather patterns in a region where a great deal of food is grown? I doubt those giant walls that have been proposed are going to be cheap either.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Broomstick »

It's more cost-effective to build shelters rather than trying to reinforce every single building in Tornado Alley. Build shelters for the people, and beef up buildings that are critical, like hospitals, but for the rest of the structures only a few will be destroyed in any given year. It's cheaper to rebuild than to reinforce everything.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by madd0ct0r »

yup, with this kind of scale you could build a facotry dedicated to mass-production of shelters and deliver them on the back of trucks, just needed to be dropped into a hole.

On the other hand, I see no reason why the wall would have to be solid earth - it's there to slow winds with friction, not physically catch tornados.

You could easily have 100 floors, with two -three flats paraalel in the 30m width. It'd be a linear mega city.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

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A giant mass of roller compacted concrete would certainly be vastly cheaper then framing out liveable space. Think about how many elevators your narrow 100 story tall apartment block hundreds of miles long would need, how much that would cost on its own. How many pumps just to get water pressure on the top floors ect... and nobody would want to live in it because living that high up would suck and most of it would be in the middle of nowhere.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

And plus you'd be living in a giant windbreak. I can't imagine it would be all that popular to be both high-up and be told "yeah, this is a giant wall we built to stop tornadoes." Even if the wall is meant to stop tornadoes forming rather than stop them after they form, it's not going to be a great PR move methinks.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by xthetenth »

Wouldn't it be really hard to plan such a living space well, too? Being all in a line like that would mean stuff is a lot less likely to be close than a comparably sized area in a more traditional layout?
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

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I don't think that'd be a big issue if we are imagining unlimited money (as we are), you could have some kind of people mover system every 10-20 floors and lots of express elevators. Huge buildings usually end up having some floors dedicated to utilities, this would be the same, said floor could have a people mover track down each side, one in each direction, and some of them would be expresses. The shopping mall/school areas would have to stack vertically instead of being spread horizontally, but that's hardly unprecedented in dense urban areas. 50m might not be ideal, but its still a small city block.

One really damn annoying problem though would be the shear number of structural columns involved, as every single space would be pierced by hoards of them. Nothing could be a wide open space, well maybe some movie theaters could be fit in with a lot of extra steelwork, but it'd be a limited thing that has to be designed into the structure from day one. The WTC towers dealt with this precise problem with the curtain wall + core concept, leaving large open floor space inbetween, but in light of said buildings becoming 2 million ton piles of debris I doubt this design method would be accepted ever again. Its a big factor in why most countries stopped building super tall towers, and they are now only being built as outlandish prestige projects.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by madd0ct0r »

Skimmer - curtain wall + core is still pretty much the standard way to build, I've not come across any rule changes to that.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

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Sea Skimmer wrote:Its a big factor in why most countries stopped building super tall towers, and they are now only being built as outlandish prestige projects.
If you look at list of 10 tallest skyscrapers in the world, 9/10 were completed in last 10 years, with only Petronas Towers being completed in 1998, 15 years ago. Then you have Willis Tower from 1973 and 21st century buildings all the way to 24th place, Empire State Building. We stopped building them how? :|
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by General Zod »

Funnily enough there's a documentary on Netflix talking about this very topic. The proposal kicking around right now is building a giant geodesic dome over Houston made up of a honeycomb structure and using several layers of a super-strong plastic for the cell walls. You'd have vents to take care of climate regulation and the lots of redundant safety equipment. This way the core of the city can be protected without creating a massively unwanted impact on the rest of the environment. They've already got a small scale proof of concept built and running right now.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by AniThyng »

Irbis wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:Its a big factor in why most countries stopped building super tall towers, and they are now only being built as outlandish prestige projects.
If you look at list of 10 tallest skyscrapers in the world, 9/10 were completed in last 10 years, with only Petronas Towers being completed in 1998, 15 years ago. Then you have Willis Tower from 1973 and 21st century buildings all the way to 24th place, Empire State Building. We stopped building them how? :|
He did say "only being built as outlandish prestige projects", which is true for all of those buildings including the Petronas Towers...
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Irbis »

AniThyng wrote:He did say "only being built as outlandish prestige projects", which is true for all of those buildings including the Petronas Towers...
By that definition, no supertall tower ever built was anything but "outlandish prestige project". Also, I fail to see how towers built in places that lack buildable land, Shanghai, Hong Kong, or New York, are outlandish. If anything, building stuff minimizing land usage and environment footprint is what makes sense and its the colossal, endless sprawl that is outlandish, IMHO.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

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Irbis wrote:
AniThyng wrote:He did say "only being built as outlandish prestige projects", which is true for all of those buildings including the Petronas Towers...
By that definition, no supertall tower ever built was anything but "outlandish prestige project". Also, I fail to see how towers built in places that lack buildable land, Shanghai, Hong Kong, or New York, are outlandish. If anything, building stuff minimizing land usage and environment footprint is what makes sense and its the colossal, endless sprawl that is outlandish, IMHO.
40% of the world trade center is empty. If you can't fill up the building because the costs are exorbitant I'd say that qualifies as a prestige project.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Gaidin »

General Zod wrote: 40% of the world trade center is empty. If you can't fill up the building because the costs are exorbitant I'd say that qualifies as a prestige project.
That complex opened this year, or will later this year. When a complex opens do they typically have all space filled right away or is there somehow typically a space available sign? What's the pattern. I'm just curious. If most of the space is scheduled to be filled, it seems like they're starting fairly well to me. Or is 60% just not enough by typical measurements?
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

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Gaidin wrote:
General Zod wrote: 40% of the world trade center is empty. If you can't fill up the building because the costs are exorbitant I'd say that qualifies as a prestige project.
That complex opened this year, or will later this year. When a complex opens do they typically have all space filled right away or is there somehow typically a space available sign? What's the pattern. I'm just curious. If most of the space is scheduled to be filled, it seems like they're starting fairly well to me. Or is 60% just not enough by typical measurements?
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The original trade towers took a decade to fill, and that's only because they were padded with government agencies. Manhattan currently has enough empty buildings to provide every single homeless person in the city with reasonable housing.
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Re: Walling up Tornado Alley

Post by Broomstick »

Gaidin wrote:
General Zod wrote: 40% of the world trade center is empty. If you can't fill up the building because the costs are exorbitant I'd say that qualifies as a prestige project.
That complex opened this year, or will later this year. When a complex opens do they typically have all space filled right away or is there somehow typically a space available sign? What's the pattern. I'm just curious. If most of the space is scheduled to be filled, it seems like they're starting fairly well to me. Or is 60% just not enough by typical measurements?
Outside of major booms in demand (I think the last here was in the 80's or 90's, depending on which region/city in the US you're talking about) it's unusual for all the space in a genuine skyscraper to be rented out on opening day, and for the megaprojects like the WTC (either version), the Willis Tower in Chicago, and the like that's even more true.
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