Question to the Athiests among us here.

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

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Kahlis
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Post by Kahlis »

Have you ever tried publicly declaring an unpopular faith (or lack thereof) like Satanism or atheism? You might find it's harder to draw sympathy when you're on the other side of the fence. My wife was Christian; the only Christians who get verbally abused are the ones who are obnoxious about it, ie- try to steer conversations toward their religion at every opportunity, etc.
For the former, you have my sympathy. The self-righteousness is appalling..


As far as the latter, you'd actually be surprised. I deliberately refrain from forcing Christianity onto other people as it tends to be entirely ineffective as well as trivializing my own faith. This year at UPS, there have been some pretty nasty incidents towards a bible study I'm helping to lead, merely for the fact that it is Christian.
Actually, as much as you might like to believe that this is universal to all religions, I don't think so.
I don't think its an inherent attribute to religions themselves, but I do think it is an inherent human attribute. It is the same instinct that leads to creating structures for discrimination and superiority within culture, and combined with religion it tacks on an extra 'holy' element. That makes it that much more ugly..
atheism does not claim any sort of moral superiority since atheism has nothing to say about morality one way or another; atheism only claims superior logic.
Not necessarily. Consider different approaches at atheism, including Nihilism, and the same cannot be said.
No need or do I need to point out the Jewish Good book only contains the first four books of the Bible? Not Mark, Not Mathew not anything BUT those first four books?
1. The Torah was the first five books of the Old Testament
2. The person I quoted referred to an absence of quotes in the New Testament on Hell and the Devil. I provided them.
There where five things the Messiash was supposed to do, Thats what God said, Jesus did not do them he is not the Messiah
Given that we appear to be taking the Bible at its word for the sake of argument..

Christ's activity on this earth was to be three-fold:
1. Coming during the time of the Romans
2. Perpetuation via the Holy Spirit
3. Second Coming

Those attributes which cannot be ascribed to Christ in the first or second could be claimed to come during the third. The story is incomplete and thus cannot be judged in the fashion you propose.

But anyways, I apologize. This is getting highly tangential, so I will remove myself from this thread.

'peace.
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Post by Mr Bean »

1. The Torah was the first five books of the Old Testament
If true GAAAAH my mistake but thats just Dueotromy to, still not Mark and Mathew which he quoted

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Post by GoneCrazy »

There where five things the Messiash was supposed to do, Thats what God said, Jesus did not do them he is not the Messiah
Given that we appear to be taking the Bible at its word for the sake of argument..

Christ's activity on this earth was to be three-fold:
1. Coming during the time of the Romans
2. Perpetuation via the Holy Spirit
3. Second Coming

Those attributes which cannot be ascribed to Christ in the first or second could be claimed to come during the third. The story is incomplete and thus cannot be judged in the fashion you propose.




Second coming? i don't think so go here- http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... ndex.shtml
never read it myself (i don't need to im atheist but i hear it good)
he didn't come during the romans that i know.
and im not sure what "perpetuation" means but since ther's no such thing as a holy spirit he couldn't possibly have that.

therefore jesus wasn't the mesiah and's merely another shithole who got stoned and became famousfor it (with a whole bunch of lies and exaggerations from the "prophets", i think they're calle prophets at least) its all stupid anyway the only reason to believe in god's because u think the tribulation's gonna come or u think there's an afterlife. u can subscribe to the viking's religion if u want an afterlife. and the tribulation was made so the church could scare stupid serfs. im amazed anyone but an idiot would still believe in it. :twisted:
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Post by TrailerParkJawa »

I dont recall anyone blatently reacting badly. I did take offense to a poll in the states that something like 90% of Americans would not vote for a president that was an Athiest.

I do get into minor arguements with my friends, they have very loose religious beliefs, more of a cultural thing than a deep unmovable faith in a higher being.

Even so they have a bit of trouble having a COMPLETE LACK OF RELIGION!!!
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Post by Ted C »

I response to the original question...

I think the most prejudicial thing I ever heard was George Bush's (not George W., his dad) public statement that atheists ought not be considered citizens or allowed to vote because "this is one nation under God".
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Ted C wrote:I response to the original question...

I think the most prejudicial thing I ever heard was George Bush's (not George W., his dad) public statement that atheists ought not be considered citizens or allowed to vote because "this is one nation under God".
Then this picture is funny, if not actually unrelated:
http://angryflower.com/cheney.gif
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Post by GoneCrazy »

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Ted C wrote:I response to the original question...

I think the most prejudicial thing I ever heard was George Bush's (not George W., his dad) public statement that atheists ought not be considered citizens or allowed to vote because "this is one nation under God".
Then this picture is funny, if not actually unrelated:
http://angryflower.com/cheney.gif

u mean our prez right now said that? :roll: yet another reason to hate him. (i didn't know he said stuff like that, i try to listen to the news as little as possible, its all propaganda in my opinion)
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Post by salm »

i think i´ve never had any problems with other people. once i had a rather anoying discussion with my aunts (she lives in orange county) friend when we visited them around christmas and i refused to go to church with them. i told her that i dont believe in all that stuff which annoyed her a lot and finally she came up with this " if you go to rome, do as the romans do " thing.
as i said it was not a big problem just a load of annoyance.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

GoneCrazy wrote:u mean our prez right now said that? :roll: yet another reason to hate him. (i didn't know he said stuff like that, i try to listen to the news as little as possible, its all propaganda in my opinion)
Well if Cheney would do all those things in that strip he would be ok with me :D :twisted:
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Post by Straha »

I got disowned by my parents for awhile when I converted to satanism. After a while though it became evidently clear that it was not worth the abuse, and that the "church's" leadership was quite laking, and thus became an athiest again.
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Post by Solid Snake »

Well, this girl stopped talking to me when i politely beat her ass down in a creation/evolution debate. Dumb bitch. Whenever a fellow atheist needed help in a debate, i was called upon to beat out the opposing force of evil christianity. I was somewhat of a superweapon among the atheists in FHS. Thanks to the ammo provided by Stardestroyer.net. All my followers could then beat a Christians ass down without my help. -Sniff- im so proud -Sniff-
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Post by Darth Yoshi »

Some guys in middle school tried converting me once, but other than that, nothing major.
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Post by Raziel »

Can't honestly say I've been discriminated against, though a girl I go to school with refuses to date guys who aren't Christian. Since I haven't tried to date her, she hasn't discriminated against me :D

As a matter of fact, almost all of my old high-school friends were either outright atheists or hadn't been to church since they were small children. Must be an inner-city thing, since a lot of the people I know in the suburbs are at least casual Christians.
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Post by kheegster »

Never really been a problem to me...was a Buddhist, but decided that I didn't believe in reincarnation, though to an extent I still agree with some of Buddhist metaphysics. Parents are Buddhist, and they have accepted my beliefs, although I still get a earful from them now and then (much more now since I'll be leaving for university soon).

I'm in Malaysia, very multi-racial and there isn't an overwhelming majority of any religion, although Islam is the state religion, the government doesn't really bother non-Muslims. And get this, Christians are a small minority, but much more vocal than, say, the Buddhists or Hindus, which both have larger populations. I have been accosted by fundies before, but usually I'm to pressed for time to do anything other than say "No thank you" and walk off. Debated a fundie who is pathetic beyond words in my school before, and he came off with mucho mucho egg on his face...since then he hasn't bothered. I know lots of Christians as friends, in fact I'm in a Christian writers' group (friend added me), but I've learnt to just ignore their religious stuff.

I used to play Devil's Advocate in a Christian discussion group...after going through that I'm more firmly atheist than I was before. Had to quit simply because I didn't have the time and because it was Everyone vs Me...

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Post by Nick »

For mine, most of my friends are fairly rational people and an attitude of 'whatever floats your boat' tends to prevail as far as spirituality is concerned.

So, for personal discrimination, just avoid the topic with people you suspect wouldn't be able to handle it.

For _organisational_ discriminition - well, you're only likely to have trouble if you come into contact with someone who has power, and they abuse it because they know you're an atheist. This is going to be very situation dependent - and is not a problem unique to atheists.

Generally I'd say, be reserved about your beliefs, but if someone asks simply tell them your philosophy. How much you want to hedge that based on expectations of discrimination - well, that's your call.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Nick wrote:Generally I'd say, be reserved about your beliefs, but if someone asks simply tell them your philosophy. How much you want to hedge that based on expectations of discrimination - well, that's your call.
The funny thing about my in-laws is that they know I'm an atheist, and one of them is a preacher (the real "fire and brimstone" style, too). But he never confronts me even though I know he's confronted others in the past, and I suspect it's because he knows I'll beat him down without breaking a sweat.

What's funny is that they assume my ability to beat down creationists etc is due to my tactics, or perhaps my aggressive nature, or perhaps elevated debating skills, without ever considering the possibility that it's really easy to do well in a debate when you happen to be right.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

Are they creationists as in; they believe God set in motion evolution, or as in; Earth was created 10,000 yrs ago, in 7 days?
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Post by Darth Wong »

Cyril wrote:Are they creationists as in; they believe God set in motion evolution, or as in; Earth was created 10,000 yrs ago, in 7 days?
As in "God made man out of dust, named him Adam, and put him in the Garden of Eden, as it is written in the Scriptures". I don't know what they think about the age of the Earth, but that alone is more than enough to show that they've thrown rational, objective thinking to the winds.
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Post by Alyeska »

There are some that claim the Bible is STRICTLY true and that the Earth is 6,000 years old.
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Post by HemlockGrey »

There are some that claim the Bible is STRICTLY true and that the Earth is 6,000 years old.
And we call them 'fools'
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Post by Alyeska »

Cyril wrote:
There are some that claim the Bible is STRICTLY true and that the Earth is 6,000 years old.
And we call them 'fools'
Well 40+ percent of the US population thinks the world is 10,000 years old or younger.
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Post by Darth Yoshi »

Well, since you're talking about the US, I'm not surprised. The American education system is seriously lacking.
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Post by Alyeska »

Darth Yoshi wrote:Well, since you're talking about the US, I'm not surprised. The American education system is seriously lacking.
The American education system teaches evolution and does NOT teach creationism. Thats not the problem here. The problem is dealing with the level of control outside of education that religous groups hold. One good thing is it was shown that the higher level of education people have, the greater number of Athiests there will be percent wise in those groups.
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Post by The Kaiser »

Alyeska wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:Well, since you're talking about the US, I'm not surprised. The American education system is seriously lacking.
The American education system teaches evolution and does NOT teach creationism. Thats not the problem here. The problem is dealing with the level of control outside of education that religous groups hold. One good thing is it was shown that the higher level of education people have, the greater number of Athiests there will be percent wise in those groups.
I agree with both of you. I recently graduated from high school, and I must say that I have no respect for the American education system. In fact, I joined the U.S. Navy as a nuclear physicist because I was tired of jerking off. The teachers are so damned afraid that they'll teach something that will offend someone that they teach us bull shit. A great example would be the sex ed courses. They can't talk about taboos like masturbation, so people grow up thinking they're going to go blind. They can't say anything about the use of condoms or other contraception's lest their parents accuse them of promoting sex (since the only thing on a young man's mind when confronted with a willing partner is "do I know how to properly utilize contraceptives?")

It's this piss-poor education that leaves children willing to accept easy answers rather that asking difficult questions. It's because of their wretched counseling that leaves them emotionally susceptible to religion's appeal to the need to belong. We always hear about how this religious organization or that one opposes some new form of education. That's because they know that a person used to logic makes a shitty suicide bomber.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Alyeska wrote:
Cyril wrote:
There are some that claim the Bible is STRICTLY true and that the Earth is 6,000 years old.
And we call them 'fools'
Well 40+ percent of the US population thinks the world is 10,000 years old or younger.
And now I'm reminded of the ancient proverb:
"100 billion flies can't be wrong.
EAT SHIT!"
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