Bible and Divorce

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-07-11 06:12pm

One of the guys at my work, who is a pretty nice guy, has been having marriage problems and is planning to get a divorce. Of course, I don't know what the full reality is but I am pretending in this post that everything he says is the truth. His wife has been cheating on him and we were talking about what the bible states. Like most 'Christians' he really does not know what the bible states and states that the bible supports divorce if the wife cheats on the man. I said nothing to him but if I remeber correctly, punishments are must stronger than taht such as killing the women. I am curious if I am correct about punishments for this in the bible and what punishments there are for men who have sex with womne they are not married to when they are not married? This is something I have never really looked through.

LadyBarbara · Post by **LadyBarbara** » 2003-07-11 07:30pm

This is from the New Revised Standard Version. Matthew 19:1-11 is an account of the Pharisees asking Jesus questions concerning marriage and divorce. In verse 9, Jesus states, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits fornication." Unchastity here refers to adultery. I believe the Koine Greek word is 'porneia'.

Jesus also spoke of the problems that cause marital infidelity at Matthew 15:10-19. There is another verse that speaks of looking at woman in such a way that a man would have committed adultery in his heart. Basically, the root cause of infidelity. However, adultery itself does not end the marriage. The innocent mate can choose to forgive the adulterous mate if he or she wishes.

The Bible really does not support divorce, but gives guidance as to how to preserve a marriage (Ephesians 5:29-33). Two keys to a happy marriage are love and respect. While they may be lacking in a marriage, both mates could certainly make concessions and work together to strengthen their marriage bond.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-07-13 02:28am

I like the way the fundie simply ignored the part of the question about Biblical prescribed penalties for adulterers. If you look at my anti-Creationism site, you'll find various Biblical quotes prescribing death for adulterers.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-07-13 08:57am

Darth Wong wrote:I like the way the fundie simply ignored the part of the question about Biblical prescribed penalties for adulterers. If you look at my anti-Creationism site, you'll find various Biblical quotes prescribing death for adulterers.

Took me a bit to find it but thanks.
I also noted that a women can be put to death for Pre-Marital sex where this seems to not be a opunishment for males. As well, the usualy passage where a women may be forced to marry her rapist.

LadyBarbara · Post by **LadyBarbara** » 2003-07-16 06:54pm

And I like the way Darth Wong incorrectly assumed I was a fundie. I am not. I do not take all of the Bible literally. Hasty generalization.

However, what Wong fails to understand is that Christians are not under the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law did prescribe the death penalty for adultery among other things. Hebrews 3:3 states that "Jesus is worthy of more glory than Moses." Actually, in reading the entire book of Hebrews, Paul clearly shows that Jesus's sacrifice is greater than any animal sacrifice made during the time of the Mosaic Law. For true Christians, the Mosaic Law has no real bearing on their everyday lives. It is simply written history.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-07-16 09:00pm

LadyBarbara wrote:And I like the way Darth Wong incorrectly assumed I was a fundie. I am not. I do not take all of the Bible literally. Hasty generalization.

Interesting, since you once said on this very board:

LadyBarbara wrote:Look at Genesis from this perspective: it tells how the universe came into being. It explains in a matter-of-fact way the wonders of creation without overshadowing the main purpose of the book. It further explains God's purpose in creating man, God's relationship to man, and man's relationship to the animals. Genesis provides the only source known to humans that provides a logical, coherent history of things back to the beginning.

Generally speaking, only a fundie would think that Genesis is either logical or coherent, or that it actually "tells how the universe came into being" instead of being a myth. So stop whining. BTW, look up "hasty generalization", since you obviously have no clue what it means.

However, what Wong fails to understand is that Christians are not under the Mosaic law.

I understand that this is what Christians say. I also understand that Christians think that the God who created this insane law was "righteous", in which case they either believe the law was also "righteous" or that God was wrong to create it thusly, neither of which they will admit to. So which is it?

The Mosaic law did prescribe the death penalty for adultery among other things. Hebrews 3:3 states that "Jesus is worthy of more glory than Moses." Actually, in reading the entire book of Hebrews, Paul clearly shows that Jesus's sacrifice is greater than any animal sacrifice made during the time of the Mosaic Law.

Paul says lots of things, none of which should carry any more weight than the bleatings of any preacher in any local church. I have always considered it a great mystery why anyone thinks more highly of Paul than they do of any other preacher, such as Jimmy Swaggart.

For true Christians, the Mosaic Law has no real bearing on their everyday lives. It is simply written history.

Yet it supposedly details the wishes of a "righteous" God, thus leaving you with the dilemma I described earlier. Was God wrong for creating such cruel laws, or do you believe the laws were OK?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-16 09:06pm

My dad's father (I refuse to call him my grandfather) was a Cult...I mean Church of Christ preacher. He refused to accept my dad's second marriage, the one that produced me, since the first marriage ended in divorce. So I only have one set of grandparents. Not that I would want the asshole in my family anyway, adopted my dad and treated him like shit his whole childhood, raised him the good Christian way if you know what I mean.

Sobbastchianno · Post by **Sobbastchianno** » 2003-07-16 10:07pm

Quote:
For true Christians, the Mosaic Law has no real bearing on their everyday lives. It is simply written history.

A bit off the case here, but IF Christians really feel this way, then why is it they when it comes to gay rights, they throw Leviticus and their misinterpretation of Sodom and Gomorrah up in our face all the time? I agree with Master Wong, Christians use the "Mosaic law is Archaic law" argument solely at their convenience.

Forget what the Bible says, if the agreement going into the marriage was to have it be monogamous, and that agreement wasn't kept, the contract is broken, period. Get the divorce.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-07-16 10:54pm

LadyBarbara wrote: Actually, in reading the entire book of Hebrews, Paul clearly shows that Jesus's sacrifice is greater than any animal sacrifice made during the time of the Mosaic Law. For true Christians, the Mosaic Law has no real bearing on their everyday lives. It is simply written history.

That, ma'am, is a whole crock of Bullshit. Here's something right out of Jesus' mouth

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-07-16 11:14pm

LadyBarbara wrote:And I like the way Darth Wong incorrectly assumed I was a fundie. I am not. I do not take all of the Bible literally. Hasty generalization.

I think you misunderstood, I'm pretty sure he was referring to Kitsune's co-worker.

Oh, and welcome to SD.net.

Edit: Are you somehow related to Shaka? I just saw his location, and it's the same as yours. Or it could just be a coincidence.
Edit again: Doh, I misread. Sorry, my apologies.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-07-17 12:38am

From reading the thread, nope. LadyB = the fundie, apparently.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-07-17 12:51am

Kitsune wrote:One of the guys at my work, who is a pretty nice guy, has been having marriage problems and is planning to get a divorce. Of course, I don't know what the full reality is but I am pretending in this post that everything he says is the truth. His wife has been cheating on him and we were talking about what the bible states. Like most 'Christians' he really does not know what the bible states and states that the bible supports divorce if the wife cheats on the man. I said nothing to him but if I remeber correctly, punishments are must stronger than taht such as killing the women. I am curious if I am correct about punishments for this in the bible and what punishments there are for men who have sex with womne they are not married to when they are not married? This is something I have never really looked through.

What Jesus says of divorce and remarriage:

Matt 5:31-32
31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
(NIV)

Matt 19:3-9
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'
5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?
6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
(NIV)

The last part of the first two passages appear to allow for divorce and remarriage due to marital unfaithfulness.

Mark 10:2-11
2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
3 "What did Moses command you?" he replied.
4 They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."
5 "It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied.
6 "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'
7 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this.
11 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
(NIV)

The above passage is similar, but the clause for marital unfaithfulness is not included this time. I believe since it is included in the first two passages, the marital unfaithfulness clause stands.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-07-20 05:05am

The Jehovah's Witnesses have an extra clause for permissible divorce, which is "spiritual failure". In essence, they're saying it's OK to divorce your wife if she isn't Christian (or converts from Christianity to something else during the course of your marriage). I'm sure they have some Bible passage to back this up; they always produce one for each of their little policies.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-07-20 05:45am

Probably the unequally yoked thing.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"
-- 2 Corinthians 6:14, KJV

Sobbastchianno · Post by **Sobbastchianno** » 2003-07-20 11:16pm

I am curious, if a marriage is not sanctified by a church, such as a purely civil ceremony done by the Justice of the Peace, then is it "divorce" in the eyes of the church if that marriage fails and a divorce is granted by the court?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-07-21 01:23am

Sobbastchianno wrote:I am curious, if a marriage is not sanctified by a church, such as a purely civil ceremony done by the Justice of the Peace, then is it "divorce" in the eyes of the church if that marriage fails and a divorce is granted by the court?

Anyone who gets married in a civil ceremony with no religious influence would not give a shit whether the church recognizes their marriage or divorce.

Sobbastchianno · Post by **Sobbastchianno** » 2003-07-21 02:19am

Darth Wong wrote:
Sobbastchianno wrote:I am curious, if a marriage is not sanctified by a church, such as a purely civil ceremony done by the Justice of the Peace, then is it "divorce" in the eyes of the church if that marriage fails and a divorce is granted by the court?
Anyone who gets married in a civil ceremony with no religious influence would not give a shit whether the church recognizes their marriage or divorce.

Mike, I fully agree with you, but I am curious to find out how the religious people feel about it.

Spoonist · Post by **Spoonist** » 2003-07-21 05:24am

Sobbastchianno wrote:I am curious, if a marriage is not sanctified by a church, such as a purely civil ceremony done by the Justice of the Peace, then is it "divorce" in the eyes of the church if that marriage fails and a divorce is granted by the court?

The catholic church does not recognize civil ceremonies, and therefore 'allows' you to marry even after having a 'civil divorce'. Something which they are normally against.

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