Loving People

[Ender]

Nice knowing you Wharf Dong.

Even as an insult that doesn't make sense.

WRT the OP, your sales pitch is as horrible as your product.

[charlemagne]

And I believe what others here find foreign about the Commandments is the whole "religion" part of it--many here are atheists. Most people here aren't so much into the "No other God before me" or "Making False Idols" or saying "Goddammit."

I've been to a shop selling golden calves last week, I shall get one and pray to it.

[Darth Wong]

Unfortunately, fundies always say stupid things like "you will be judged regardless of whether you believe" because they're in the habit of thinking that their beliefs are like science, and can be considered true even for nonbelievers. They literally have no grasp on reality, and cannot distinguish between objective reality and subjective belief. The only real distinction between a true religious believer and a raving lunatic is that the religious believer has a popular and shared delusion.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

blah blah blah blah blah blah
God cannot return to the Earth until he sends angels to give the Gospel to everyone on Earth. Not only that, but do not steal, do not kill, do not commit adultery, do not covet thy neighbor's anything, do not bear false witness, are half of the set of Commandments that God set forth to obey and a whole lot of cultures agree with that.

A) Appeal to Popularity is not evidence of the God of the Christians.
B) Yes, certain cultural rules tend to turn up over and over again among disparate cultures. This does not point to divine origin, but rather, evidence that humans are intelligent social animals with a long evolutionary history of complex cooperative social behavior. Arguably, not killing your kin, stealing their shit, lying about stealing their shit, and sleeping around with their mates are basic rules required so humans can get along in groups larger than about four or five. For that matter, they're basic principles required so that any social animal more complex than insects can get along without killing each other.

In fact, you see it among non-human animals. Take a bunch of bears, a bunch of chimpanzees, and a bunch of humans. Stealing thy neighbor's shit is frowned upon in all three species. The difference is one of enforcement. Steal a bear's salmon, and the only one to kick your ass will be the bear you stole it from. Steal a chimp's fruit, and his buddies will kick your ass and chase you around the next time you look at his fruit funny. Steal a man's stuff, and not only will his buddies kick your ass, but laws will be passed and an invisible, all-knowing sky-man who watches you 24/7 will be invoked to make it less likely that you'll steal again.

Unless your complaining about the Sabbath laws, whats really so foreign in the Ten Commandments, really?

See above.

Did you know that in the Old Testament the Gentiles had a Covenant with God too? Did you know that it wasn't actually until a few centuries that the world was isolated from God's laws to begin with?

Says who? The Bible? Note: This is a circular argument. Any argument regarding the veracity of the Bible that starts with the assumption that the Bible is true and works from there is sheer idiocy.

The Bible says that to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, it is sin.. Doesn't this make you hopeful that God will give information to those who haven't heard of him? Read Eternity In Their Hearts. Many cultures have a Sky Father.. this is God.

This is proof of the God of the Christians . . . how? And, again, you're attempting to prove the God of the Christians by appeal to popularity. Who is to say that the supposed 'Sky Father' of other cultures isn't actually Zeus?

[Glass Pearl Player]

I'm a Lord's Believer.

A Lord's Believer is a problem. He steals everyone's technologies.

Therefore, you are part of the problem. What solution do you propose?

Sorry sir, the OT never existed. It is known as the Covenant, and it is still in effect. However when you become Christian, then the OT is obselete.

In other words, the OT is simultaneously obsolete, in effect, nonexistant and known under some other name? While I do believe that the word is mighty indeed, I somehow doubt that the collection of genealogies, love songs, laws and not-quite-unbiased recollections of historic events intermixed with predictions of DOOM IMMINENT TO ALL WHO ARE NOT PURE AND STRIDENT BELIEVERS RAR! [*] written down on parchment by some desert nomads and their descendands are in any position whatsoever to deny being subject to the inviolate laws of logic.

Nice bandwagon

No.
Oh, when the saints go marching in
Oh, when the saints go marching in
Lord, how I want to be in that number
When the saints go marching in

That is a bandwagon.
And remember: "This so called new religion is nothing but a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools. Let us say the Lord's prayer 40 times, but first let's pass the collection plate." [**]


[*] I haven't read the bible in a while. Did I forget something?
[**] Funny tangent: while looking up that quote, I stumbled over the term "foxy boxing". Further investigations seem warranted.[/size]

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm confused. What's the definition of a Christian, again? I hold Jesus' two commandments (or I try to anyway), and I made Him my personal lord and savior.

What's left?

[Samuel]

You have to give true Christians money. It is like a pyramid scheme you see. Oh, and hate the gays and commies and pagans and atheists and... there is a long list. It depends on which true Christian you are talking to.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that SMG didn't realize here name is close to a parody of Christianity? The believers are presented as nut jobs who get a probe bonus because they are "resistant to...other forms... of brainwashing".

[Duckie]

This is proof of the God of the Christians . . . how? And, again, you're attempting to prove the God of the Christians by appeal to popularity. Who is to say that the supposed 'Sky Father' of other cultures isn't actually Zeus?

Fact Time:

The Skyfather of many other cultures probably is Zeus.

Proto-Indo-European: Dyēus Pħtar (O Dyēu Pħtar = vocative form) [Skyfather], Deiwos [(a) god]
Sanskrit: Dyauş Pitār (cedilla = underdot for retroflexion) and the word "Deva"
Greek: Zeus (O Zeu Pater!)
Latin: Ius Pater / O Iovis Pater -> Iuppiter. (older name Dies Pater apparantly (Dayfather), since "Dyēus (Sky)" was often confused with "Deiwos (God)" and vice versa. They share origins, probably, but I don't know that.)
Germanic: Tiwaz (Týr)
Baltic: Deivas
Gallic: Dis Pater
Slavic: Dazbog
Celtic: Dagos-Deiwos (Dagda)

Now, this is a controversial theory and rather not well supported (I've seen two books on it, both of which are apparantly tracing back to a very well-formulated opus by a linguist named Möller that somehow still didn't reach currency because relating Proto-Languages is controversial), but some scholars believe in a connection between Proto-Semitic and Proto-Indo-European. If monogenesis is true (although it probably isn't, there's a possibility), Proto-Semitic and PIE must be related somehow.

What does this mean? It means that the concept of a Sky Father at the head of a pantheon also goes back, just like it does for almost every branch of PIE religion. If true, it means that YHWH is Zeus is the Dagda is Dispater is Jupiter is Tyr.

I'm not sure if that'd be a mark against or for Christianity. Probably both.

[BountyHunterSAx]

Its a mark in favor of the belief that people invented the concept of God. So when arguing with someone unwilling to believe in the existence of things beyond their perception, it works definitively against you (in their favor). It only works in favor of Christianity (or Islam, or Judaism, or any revealed-faith) if you begin with the premise that that particular faith was revealed. In that case, it explains handily why *other* faiths emerged, and why they aren't 'real' but are just bastardizations of a human-invented concept. Similarities in other religions serves to legitimize your religion as special.

Of course, if you show similarities between the "false" religion and their chosen "real" religion that they have no other explanation for, then they can argue the flip side of the coin just as easily. That it was a human-made concept, but since God really is there they got parts of it right (based on their perception of reality).

It makes perfect sense. . . if you set up your premise as "God exists, and his name is Jesus, The Holy Ghost, and The Father, and the Bible is true in its entirety - except for the OT. And...[insert my church's values here]." Once you have those premises, you are forced to deal with contradictions by coming up with explanations for them, all the while admitting you can't be sure. Just as a scientist, when he sees Newtonian mechanics being contradicted, is forced to come up with a new explanation that fits the facts in front of him, since he accepts objective reality as his premise.


-AHMAD

[Duckie]

Now, to be fair, IE doesn't make up a large portion of languages- sure 3 billion people speak them today natively- but there's only about 116 IE languages. That's perhaps 1/60th of the world's languages which can trace back to a skyfather. (note that about 1073 of the world's 6921 languages known are on the island of Papua New Guinea, so the fact that the IE languages have more speakers does count for something in light of that IMO.)

However, like I said, the chance of Semitic being related would boost it up a lot, since Semitic languages are part of the Afro-Asiatic family, covering all of Africa and the predominantly muslim areas where arabic is spoken. And Monogenesis, however unlikely, means all languages are related.

[Darth Wong]

I'm confused. What's the definition of a Christian, again? I hold Jesus' two commandments (or I try to anyway), and I made Him my personal lord and savior.

What's left?

Seriously? It depends on what any given Christian is trying to prove. If he's trying to prove that a well-regarded historical figure was Christian, the bar is set extremely low; any recorded comment which is positive on religion or which even mentions the word "God" is assumed to be proof that the person was Christian. If, on the other hand, he is trying to prove that a vilified historical figure is not Christian, then the bar is suddenly set extremely high: the person must not just respect but consistently obey all of the commandments in the Bible, to the subjective satisfaction of whoever is making the argument.

[BountyHunterSAx]

I'm confused. What's the definition of a Christian, again? I hold Jesus' two commandments (or I try to anyway), and I made Him my personal lord and savior.

What's left?

Lots of things. there are - after all - at least a dozen very major schisms and sects in Christianity. And while your particular sect (and denomination, and church, and understanding of its rules) may be inclusive of some of these other sects, the fact that they exist shows that "The definition of Christian" is hardly something set in stone, rather it's something left up to interpretation by the individual. Unlike in the case of Islam where the Qur'an is paramount (though admittedly the varied interpretations it lends itself to give Islam a decent 70 sects of its own), in the case of Christian theology there really isn't any one thing at all that is paramount. As of such you have different sects that, in some cases:

* Do not believe in the Bible at all.
* Do not believe in the relevance/existence of God [Ref: Christian Atheism]
* Believe in the prophethood of Joseph Smith
* Believe in the quasi-divinity of the Pope
* Do not view Jesus as having any attached 'divinity'; though he is considered a role model.

The things that you would probably hold as core values of belief you'll find other whole sects disagree on.

-AHMAD

[Superman]

Wow, I have to admit that, after reading Sister's post here, I suddenly feel an overwhelming urge to convert to whatever branch of Christianity she adheres to. She posts the usual evangelical bullshit, gets her ass handed to her when people point out how silly it really is, calls someone "worf dong," then runs away. I've always wanted to be that stupid and obnoxious. Now I know how.

[General Zod]

/showbook.asp?title=523]Christian Atheism[/url]]

"Christian Atheism" is probably the single stupidest thing I've heard of all week.

[TithonusSyndrome]

/showbook.asp?title=523]Christian Atheism[/url]]

"Christian Atheism" is probably the single stupidest thing I've heard of all week.

It doesn't sound stupid at all. It actually IS quite stupid. I doubt anything better exemplifies metatwaddle than a load like this:

The Self-Annihilation of God
We must recognize that the proclamation of the death of God is a Christian confession of faith. For to know that God is dead is to know the God who died in Jesus Christ, the God who passed through what Blake symbolically named as "Self-Annihilation" or Hegel dialectically conceived as the negation of negation. Only the Christian can truly speak of the death of God, because the Christian alone knows the God who negates himself in his own revelatory and redemptive acts.

[Samuel]

Well, it does make it an actual sacrifice instead of "Jesus gave up a whole weekend for your sins". Exactly why it is a religion if there is no God to receive worship is beyond me.

[General Zod]

It doesn't sound stupid at all. It actually IS quite stupid. I doubt anything better exemplifies metatwaddle than a load like this:

Maybe you should go back and read what I said one more time.

[Dark Hellion]

I don't know why your upset Zod. You only said it was the stupidest thing you heard. Now thanks to Tith, it is both the stupidest thing anyone has heard or SEEN all week. Now if only we could distill it into some kind of soup so that we could touch, taste and smell it. It would be an overwhelming of the senses with pure, unadulterated dumb. We could use it for PsyOps in anti-American countries, or torture Gitmo Prisoners! Think of the possibilities. With the power of that much stupid metaphysical bullshit we could rule the world!

[General Zod]

I don't know why your upset Zod. You only said it was the stupidest thing you heard. Now thanks to Tith, it is both the stupidest thing anyone has heard or SEEN all week. Now if only we could distill it into some kind of soup so that we could touch, taste and smell it. It would be an overwhelming of the senses with pure, unadulterated dumb. We could use it for PsyOps in anti-American countries, or torture Gitmo Prisoners! Think of the possibilities. With the power of that much stupid metaphysical bullshit we could rule the world!

You may want to re-read things as well. Saying "it doesn't just sound stupid, it is stupid" implies that I wasn't saying it was flat out stupid to begin with.

[BountyHunterSAx]

I never for a second argued that it wasn't a stupid idea - though personally I find the Unitarians' claims to be more outrageous. The point I was making is that - despite the stupidity and contradictions - they are considered to be a Christian sect (if this is not the case, then I retract that one bullet point, my bad). This illustrates how difficult the definition of "what is Christian" is to pin down, at least in my understanding of it.

-AHMAD

[General Zod]

I never for a second argued that it wasn't a stupid idea -

Which is probably why I didn't say anything about you at all when I said it was a retarded idea.

[TithonusSyndrome]

It doesn't sound stupid at all. It actually IS quite stupid. I doubt anything better exemplifies metatwaddle than a load like this:

Maybe you should go back and read what I said one more time.

Chill the fuck out, Zod. This is an older joke, along the lines of "He looks quite stupid, but don't be fooled; he actually IS stupid."

Of course, if you want to be your usual contrarian self and come up with more shoehorned and force-fitted counterpoints, be my guest.

[General Zod]

Chill the fuck out, Zod. This is an older joke, along the lines of "He looks quite stupid, but don't be fooled; he actually IS stupid."

Yeah, you were missing a lot on delivery there. Next time try actually being funny.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Chill the fuck out, Zod. This is an older joke, along the lines of "He looks quite stupid, but don't be fooled; he actually IS stupid."

Yeah, you were missing a lot on delivery there. Next time try actually being funny.

I'll take notes and ensure that next time I manage to satisfy your shrill, amorphous humor criteria.

[Samuel]

The quote is:
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."
- Groucho Marx

Also, if the joke falls flat, don't try to explain it. it just makes things worse.