What's your opinion on Kevlar?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

So what's your point? You don't care, but if someone else does why should they not be allowed to take action? Because they might be stolen? Cite some facts on vest thefts or shut up. While you're at it provide information on how many guns are stolen directly from people's hands and then used against them. So far all your presented is a total number of guns stolen.

Oh god, can you not read? Is your gun in the way?

Odds of being shot: 0.00367%
Percent of guns stolen: 3.896%

If the odds that it will help you are tiny, and the odds that it will help the criminals is much, much greater, then it's a bad idea.

It doesn't matter if it helps the criminal in that criminal encounter, or the next one, or the one after that.

[MKSheppard]

Strowbridge has based his entire argument off of one number he's miss using and a big leap in logic. He has not presented key evidence concerning the actual theft rate of vests, resulting in a totally unsupported claim. As a result I'm declaring victory in this.

I suggest everyone else stops as well. There's no point.

Which brings up the point:


Is this the REAL Strowbridge?

[MKSheppard]

Oh god, can you not read? Is your gun in the way?

Odds of being shot: 0.00367%
Percent of guns stolen: 3.896%

If the odds that it will help you are tiny, and the odds that it will help the criminals is much, much greater, then it's a bad idea.

Wow, big fucking whoop, a gun gets stolen while I'm out of the house. I just
go out and give the police the serial number and the make of it, and the
moron who has it now has a HOT gun.

[Sea Skimmer]

So what's your point? You don't care, but if someone else does why should they not be allowed to take action? Because they might be stolen? Cite some facts on vest thefts or shut up. While you're at it provide information on how many guns are stolen directly from people's hands and then used against them. So far all your presented is a total number of guns stolen.

Oh god, can you not read? Is your gun in the way?

Odds of being shot: 0.00367%
Percent of guns stolen: 3.896%

If the odds that it will help you are tiny, and the odds that it will help the criminals is much, much greater, then it's a bad idea.

It doesn't matter if it helps the criminal in that criminal encounter, or the next one, or the one after that.

And that applies to a totally different product with employing different principal for a different task HOW? Theft rates of dissimilar products are NOT the same. I've asked for real data on vest theft rates countless times as have others. You have not provided it and instead repeat the same thing over and over. Concession accepted.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Oh god, can you not read? Is your gun in the way?

Odds of being shot: 0.00367%
Percent of guns stolen: 3.896%

Non-issue, FUCKFACE! If the guns are stolen and they can be used aginst you you are a moronic fucktard if you don't wear a vest if you value your life.

CSS, or whatever fucktard lives behind that name, maybe you like silencing guns with your anus. We, however, want to live.

If the odds that it will help you are tiny, and the odds that it will help the criminals is much, much greater, then it's a bad idea.

It saves MY life. That makes it worth all the so-called trouble you say Kevlar owners will be courting.

It doesn't matter if it helps the criminal in that criminal encounter, or the next one, or the one after that.

It does matter if it helps ME.

Fuck off, Strowbridge wannabe.

[Sea Skimmer]

Strowbridge has based his entire argument off of one number he's miss using and a big leap in logic. He has not presented key evidence concerning the actual theft rate of vests, resulting in a totally unsupported claim. As a result I'm declaring victory in this.

I suggest everyone else stops as well. There's no point.

Which brings up the point:


Is this the REAL Strowbridge?

I don't think so. Either something wrong with him, mild stroke perhaps, or someone got a hold of his account. Neither one would surprise me.

[MKSheppard]

And that applies to a totally different product with employing different principal for a different task HOW? Theft rates of dissimilar products are NOT the same. I've asked for real data on vest theft rates countless times as have others. You have not provided it and instead repeat the same thing over and over. Concussion accepted.

Use this, Sea Skimmer:

[haas mark]

So what's your point? You don't care, but if someone else does why should they not be allowed to take action? Because they might be stolen? Cite some facts on vest thefts or shut up. While you're at it provide information on how many guns are stolen directly from people's hands and then used against them. So far all your presented is a total number of guns stolen.

Oh god, can you not read? Is your gun in the way?

Odds of being shot: 0.00367%

As opposed to how many gun deaths? 300 something, right? ANd how many shootings? out of 300,000 some odd people. THis is nation wide. Now take it to a lower level, and divide the neighborhood into the richer and poorer areas. In the former, the chances are almost nil. In the latter, the odds skyrocket. Open your eyes, fucknut.

If the odds that it will help you are tiny, and the odds that it will help the criminals is much, much greater, then it's a bad idea.

blahblahblah......HOW does it help the criminal? Odds have nothing to do with helping or harming a criominal! Nice leap in logic, fucknut.

It doesn't matter if it helps the criminal in that criminal encounter, or the next one, or the one after that.

No, it doesn't. Because ultimately, it doesn't. Again, great leap in logic. FUCK. NUT.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

As it is, this CSS seems to be a blindfolded lunatic spewing obscenities at a firing squad. And no, he doesn't have a vest.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

0.00367%.
Read that number a few hundred times till it sinks in.

Your point is? That you're opposed to wearing Kevlar just because you might not die while wearing it? Dumbass.

Get killed asshole.

That's the odd that a kevlar vest might be useful.

0.00367% is close enough to 0% that it's meaningless. It's a less than a rounding error.

300,000 stolen guns.
Read that number a few hundred times till it sinks in.

More reason to wear Kevlar. Read THIS a few hundred time until it sinks into that musclebound clot you call a brain.

Yeah, and eash Kevlar vest that's stolen from a person who would NEVER have used it is one more in the hands of the criminals.

If guns give us any indication, Kevlar vests would be a hundred times more likely to be stolen than to save your life. Then they are helping save the lives of criminals.

Then let's outlaw guns too, because they can be stolen and used to hurt people!

They are. They're stolen from people who will never use them and put in the hands of the criminals who do. Who, in turn, scare the morons who bought the guns to buy more guns, which are also stolen.

And the circle of stupidity is complete.

Let's outlaw cars, because cars are stolen so frequently and can be used to run people over!

It's called cost analysis. Look into it.

Do you understand now?

Why should I go to the trouble of understanding bullshit? It hurts my brain.

You a fucking idiot. You all are.

It's a simple matter of cost effectiveness.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

[MKSheppard]

You a fucking idiot. You all are.

It's a simple matter of cost effectiveness.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Cost of Kevlar Vest: $500

Cost of Hospital Bills and Major Surgery: $11K

DO THE MATH FUCK..........NUT!

[C.S.Strowbridge]

People can be targets.

Not in a target range. And that's what I'm talking about.

So the streets aren't target ranges? Please.

No, no there not. There's very little in common with a target range and a gun fight on the street.

WHICH WAS MY FUCKING POINT, ASSWIPE!!

Last time I checked, if they had guns, they could shoot back.

And if you've never been in a situation where the targets shoot back, you probably won't have the mental capacity to handle it.

Says you. You have no idea how I would react to any situation, so stop trying to get into my head, fucknut.

Oh yeah, Mr. Big Tough Man. You'd be cool as a cucumber.

Well, maybe after your body cooled down.

Have you ever been shot at? Have you ever been near someone who's was shooting? Neither have I, but a friend of mine has, and it's not whip out you HK and blow the bad guys away, it dive for cover and wish you have a spare pair of underwear.

No, but after you dive for cover, THEN you whip out the gun an dshoot. Fucknut.[/quote]

NO YOU DON'T! You shit your pants cause you life could end very, very soon and you are not mentally capable of handling that.

Why do you think it takes so much training to create and effective soldier.

You'd know that if you had any real world experience with combat, and not been force feed Rambo bullshit for so long.

And the police records show, that's a good case scenario. The bad case is, shock sets in and you do nothing till it's over.

Only when you've been shot. Fucknut.

Yeah, well I'll trust the statistics, the cops, etc. over your Soldier of Fortune spankfest fantasies.

[Sea Skimmer]

And that applies to a totally different product with employing different principal for a different task HOW? Theft rates of dissimilar products are NOT the same. I've asked for real data on vest theft rates countless times as have others. You have not provided it and instead repeat the same thing over and over. Concussion accepted.

Use this, Sea Skimmer:

Edited in. I wounder how many pages this will be, wit the same single number argument, by the time I'm back from school?

[haas mark]

0.00367%.
Read that number a few hundred times till it sinks in.

Your point is? That you're opposed to wearing Kevlar just because you might not die while wearing it? Dumbass.

Get killed asshole.

That's the odd that a kevlar vest might be useful.

How is it not useful? Third time I'm asking you...

0.00367% is close enough to 0% that it's meaningless. It's a less than a rounding error.

In context of the nation. You do realize that within certain types of neighborhoods, this is drastically different, right? (FOURTH time I bring this up, let's see if you avoid it again...)

300,000 stolen guns.
Read that number a few hundred times till it sinks in.

More reason to wear Kevlar. Read THIS a few hundred time until it sinks into that musclebound clot you call a brain.

Yeah, and eash Kevlar vest that's stolen from a person who would NEVER have used it is one more in the hands of the criminals.

SEVENTH time to say this: Cite evidence that the trend will remain the same. All it does is slow down the criminal.

If guns give us any indication, Kevlar vests would be a hundred times more likely to be stolen than to save your life. Then they are helping save the lives of criminals.

Then let's outlaw guns too, because they can be stolen and used to hurt people!

They are. They're stolen from people who will never use them and put in the hands of the criminals who do.

Having them stolen != putting them in the hands of the criminals Do you read what you write before you post it!? My god, you are coming off incredibly stupid this morning!!

Who, in turn, scare the morons who bought the guns to buy more guns, which are also stolen.

And the circle of stupidity is complete.

That's right. I believe we said Concession Accepted about a page back or so...

Let's outlaw cars, because cars are stolen so frequently and can be used to run people over!

It's called cost analysis. Look into it.

Why don't you?

Do you understand now?

Why should I go to the trouble of understanding bullshit? It hurts my brain.

You a fucking idiot. You all are.

It's a simple matter of cost effectiveness.

I think the right to want to urvive outweighs the possiblity of death by far.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Benefits are never negligible. Benefit + cost = outcome. Any benefit + cost = better outcome than no benefit at all.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Not in a target range. And that's what I'm talking about.

Then play paintball for training. It fucking HURTS when you're splatted.

Oh no! You have a welt on your ass. That's so much worse than painful bloody death.

The psychological effects are not even close.

[MKSheppard]

NO YOU DON'T! You shit your pants cause you life could end very, very soon and you are not mentally capable of handling that.

Actually no. I've been in an accident where a tractor trailer spun out of control
and if we had been 10 seconds slower, we'd all be in serious SHIT, and I was
like "Cool" and ran out to take pix of the tractor-trailer..

[MKSheppard]

Screw this.....I'm going to bed now.......


CONCESSION ACCEPTED, FUCK....NUT!

[C.S.Strowbridge]

"I racked the slide and he ran off."

Something like 95% of cases of guns being drawn in self-defense in America do not result in any shots being fired or further assaulted on the armed person. Criminals are doing it because they want an easy ride, if a person pulls a gun its much easier to run off then to fight it out or tempt fate and hope they wont shoot. So thats what they do.

And that's a good example of a gun being used in self defense. But if the bad guy decides to shoot first and loot the corpse, which is his perogative (he is the bad guy, after all) then you have a whole new situation.

BUT, the most common situation is ... the gun is stolen from your home while you are not there.

[MKSheppard]

BUT, the most common situation is ... the gun is stolen from your home while you are not there.

And this troubles me how? I just give a call to the NRA hotline and get
my insurance on the gun....yes, NRA members get $20k free insurance
on their guns.

EDIT: Really really going to bed now

[C.S.Strowbridge]

about 900 children ages 1-14 are killed in criminal acts every year. And that's through all methods, not just guns. And certainly not all by crossfire.

Actually only 30 of them are actual kids. the rest are fucking Gangbangers.

Typical Gun Control Ploy: Make Gangbangers into innocent kids.

Hmm ... that helps my side. The less innocent victims the less need for BPV.

Or did you not get that part of my arguement? Do I need to be more clear in the future.

[haas mark]

No, no there not. There's very little in common with a target range and a gun fight on the street.

WHICH WAS MY FUCKING POINT, ASSWIPE!!

They are where I live. People target other people.

Says you. You have no idea how I would react to any situation, so stop trying to get into my head, fucknut.

Oh yeah, Mr. Big Tough Man. You'd be cool as a cucumber.

I wouldn't pride myself on it, if I were you.

Well, maybe after your body cooled down.

Which is why I'd wear the vest. So I wouldn't BE cold.

Have you ever been shot at? Have you ever been near someone who's was shooting? Neither have I, but a friend of mine has, and it's not whip out you HK and blow the bad guys away, it dive for cover and wish you have a spare pair of underwear.

No, but after you dive for cover, THEN you whip out the gun an dshoot. Fucknut.

NO YOU DON'T! You shit your pants cause you life could end very, very soon and you are not mentally capable of handling that.

How do you know? What do you know each and every person is mentally capable of doing?

Why do you think it takes so much training to create and effective soldier.

Training. Right. More like programming.

You'd know that if you had any real world experience with combat, and not been force feed Rambo bullshit for so long.

So all of a sudden, if I have a gun to my head, and I pull some Aikkido, Tae Kwon Do, Karate, or otherwise, it is "Rambo bullshit"? Wrong. Self-defense.

And the police records show, that's a good case scenario. The bad case is, shock sets in and you do nothing till it's over.

Only when you've been shot. Fucknut.

Yeah, well I'll trust the statistics, the cops, etc. over your Soldier of Fortune spankfest fantasies.

I don't consider death a fantasy. I would much rather live my miserable life. Otherwise I would have committed suicide long ago. Easiest way with a gun.

[Sea Skimmer]

"I racked the slide and he ran off."

Something like 95% of cases of guns being drawn in self-defense in America do not result in any shots being fired or further assaulted on the armed person. Criminals are doing it because they want an easy ride, if a person pulls a gun its much easier to run off then to fight it out or tempt fate and hope they wont shoot. So thats what they do.

And that's a good example of a gun being used in self defense. But if the bad guy decides to shoot first and loot the corpse, which is his perogative (he is the bad guy, after all) then you have a whole new situation.

Wow, sounds like a bulluet proof vest would be a GREAT IDEA in a case like that. The same thing you've spent eight pages attacking.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Culture of Fear:

300,000 guns are stolen anually.
15,000 people are killed with guns every year,

ONCE AGAIN, as opposed to how many people that had their Kevlar vests stolen?

I don't have those figures, cause BPV are not common enough to be targets. However, if they are common they'd be stolen at the same rate as guns. That's half my argument.

And how many of those guns were stolen, friend?

.... Uhhhh .... I'm not sure how to answer this.

300,000 guns are stolen anually.

Disastercenter.com:

about 900 children ages 1-14 are killed in criminal acts every year. And that's through all methods, not just guns. And certainly not all by crossfire.

In fact, when was the last time you heard of a child dying in the crossfire?

Last time there was a drive-by, more than likely. We don't hear about them here because they happen too often. Maybe they don't happen where you are, but some of us live in the suburbs. Snob.

Really? So kid is shot and killed and it doesn't make the news? Where do you live? The West Bank?

This is where I call you a liar.

Liar.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Were you born this stupid, or do you have to WORK at it?

http://www.secondchance.com/news.asp?ac ... &newsID=22

********

According to the department’s official report, Sgt. Ellison was on routine street patrol when he noticed a vehicle being driven by an alleged bank robber.

Officer Ellison called for back up, but before it arrived, the alleged robber pulled over, got out of his vehicle and opened fire on Ellison with a 12 gauge shotgun.

In the ensuing exchange, Ellison suffered the shotgun pellet hits, many of which were stopped by his body armor. Upon the arrival of the officer’s backup, the gunman ended the shootout by killing himself.

As a result of the shooting, Officer Ellison was awarded a new replacement Second Chance vest, and his story will now be entered in the company’s annual “saves” brochure.

He's a cop. I have no problem with cops wearing BPV. Did you not get that when I said it the last time? No wait, you did, cause you called mea Statist.

Odd of a person being shot: 0.00367%

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Get killed asshole.

That's the odd that a kevlar vest might be useful.

0.00367% is close enough to 0% that it's meaningless. It's a less than a rounding error.

YOU get killed. I survive a shooting while you become another festering pile of corruption upon the streets.

Yeah, and eash Kevlar vest that's stolen from a person who would NEVER have used it is one more in the hands of the criminals.

And the average citizen can't protect his property from theft. Amazing deduction Sherlock Holmes. Or should it be Shithead Whore? You must have had your brains stolen. Or did they fall out when you stuck your head in your ass?

They are. They're stolen from people who will never use them and put in the hands of the criminals who do. Who, in turn, scare the morons who bought the guns to buy more guns, which are also stolen.

And the circle of stupidity is complete.

Yes, the idiot who posted his trash on SD.net, impersonating someone of worth has returned for another owning.

Will you PLEASE walk into traffic, you motherfucking cocksucking shitfaced cockmonkey?

It's called cost analysis. Look into it.

Look into a pile of your shit? No fucking way. Not while you're eating. Not ever, actually.

And besides,

You a fucking idiot. You all are.

TRANSLATION: Mommy Mommy wahhhhhh the big boys are making fun of my needle dick waaaaahhhh

MAy your worthless ass be fucked by a sharpened log .

It's a simple matter of cost effectiveness.

It's simple all right. If you died the world would be a better place.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Saves my life = good idea.

You = retarded idiot spewing his warp[ed masturbations about how the world should be.

Concession accepted, fuckface.